“The Harsh Reality of Gentle Parenting”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She is talking about permissive parenting not gentle parenting. So her whole article is moot.

Nothing about gentle parenting says you cant have boundaries. Any of the gentle parenting books I have read or IG accounts I follow 100% espouse that gentle parenting is for allowing emotions and recognizing them without negating the need and enforcement of boundaries. For the shoe example or we are late example, you give them an opportunity to do it themselves and then you do it for them. That's holding the boundary. Shoes are not negotiable and school is not negotiable.

"I see you are having a hard time putting your shoes on today. (recognition) Mommy has a hard time too some days. (agreement that hard is normal) Im going to go get my purse and your bag for school. And when I come back I will help you put them on OR We are going to be late for school. I can put your shoes on for you or I can help you. You choose.
Nothing is said mean or with a wagging finger or a continuation in the car of "why do you make us late everyday. We do the same thing everyday. I think you do this on purpose because you are a naughty boy" It is said matter of fact and without blame/shame. Emotions are ok. Feeling slow/not wanting to do something is normal. There are days for being lazy and being barefoot, today is not one of them.

There are mitigation techniques. There are boundaries. There is getting to know your child and understand when they are struggling and when they are struggling. It isnt cut and dry and the important part is the sum of the whole. As a parent you will lose you temper. You will get frustrated. You will shame. You are allowed to be human. What you are not supposed to do is allow it to pass without recognizing and apologizing, without noticing your own struggling behaviors/triggers and working on them. There is no point to gentle parenting without actually learning how to enforce boundaries AND be gentle/respectful. Part of learning how to do that is understanding where they are coming from developmentally. Expectations are important but flawed and a source of discontentment with all parties if the kids are even capable of doing it.

I do agree with you, but my issue has always been that I don't know what to do when this tactic (logical consequences) doesn't work. I try this every damn morning, but my son just doesn't care, so I end up doing "I'm going to count to 5 and if you're not here to get dressed then (insert consequence)." It's usually that his current favorite toy is away for the remainder of the day, or after school tv time is cancelled. I know the consequence isn't connected to the behavior but it's the only thing that gets us out the door. I think the dissonance that a lot of parents feel is that we feel like if we're doing gentle parenting the right way, we shouldn't have to resort to authoritative parenting. But that just doesn't seem to work in practice. I still think a lot of gentle parenting tenets are great, but I think a lot of parents get wrapped up in doing them perfectly (especially with the constant exposure to "do this, not that!" type posts on social media).

[Anonymous]

I know someone who is genuinely stymied by a (very unpleasant) behavior of her tween daughter because she does the whole gentle parent thing each time the child does the (honestly pretty gross) thing but has not ever (and won’t) say “no xyz is a house rule.” The behavior is not typical for a child this age and is starting to cause social issues as she did it at a friend’s house and from my perspective it seems much kinder to say (kindly and without shaming) “we have a house rule that there’s no spitting in the houseplants” (not the behavior and not nearly as off-putting) rather than “I see you’ve spit in the houseplants again, blah blah.” Also, the kid is perpetually surprised/wounded when they get (normal but not “gentle parenting” style) feedback from teachers and kids at school. Lots of aspects of gentle parenting are great for lots of kids but if you think it can’t go awry or that other styles necessarily involve shame and telling you’re wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is talking about permissive parenting not gentle parenting. So her whole article is moot.

Nothing about gentle parenting says you cant have boundaries. Any of the gentle parenting books I have read or IG accounts I follow 100% espouse that gentle parenting is for allowing emotions and recognizing them without negating the need and enforcement of boundaries. For the shoe example or we are late example, you give them an opportunity to do it themselves and then you do it for them. That's holding the boundary. Shoes are not negotiable and school is not negotiable.

"I see you are having a hard time putting your shoes on today. (recognition) Mommy has a hard time too some days. (agreement that hard is normal) Im going to go get my purse and your bag for school. And when I come back I will help you put them on OR We are going to be late for school. I can put your shoes on for you or I can help you. You choose.
Nothing is said mean or with a wagging finger or a continuation in the car of "why do you make us late everyday. We do the same thing everyday. I think you do this on purpose because you are a naughty boy" It is said matter of fact and without blame/shame. Emotions are ok. Feeling slow/not wanting to do something is normal. There are days for being lazy and being barefoot, today is not one of them.

There are mitigation techniques. There are boundaries. There is getting to know your child and understand when they are struggling and when they are struggling. It isnt cut and dry and the important part is the sum of the whole. As a parent you will lose you temper. You will get frustrated. You will shame. You are allowed to be human. What you are not supposed to do is allow it to pass without recognizing and apologizing, without noticing your own struggling behaviors/triggers and working on them. There is no point to gentle parenting without actually learning how to enforce boundaries AND be gentle/respectful. Part of learning how to do that is understanding where they are coming from developmentally. Expectations are important but flawed and a source of discontentment with all parties if the kids are even capable of doing it.

I do agree with you, but my issue has always been that I don't know what to do when this tactic (logical consequences) doesn't work. I try this every damn morning, but my son just doesn't care, so I end up doing "I'm going to count to 5 and if you're not here to get dressed then (insert consequence)." It's usually that his current favorite toy is away for the remainder of the day, or after school tv time is cancelled. I know the consequence isn't connected to the behavior but it's the only thing that gets us out the door. I think the dissonance that a lot of parents feel is that we feel like if we're doing gentle parenting the right way, we shouldn't have to resort to authoritative parenting. But that just doesn't seem to work in practice. I still think a lot of gentle parenting tenets are great, but I think a lot of parents get wrapped up in doing them perfectly (especially with the constant exposure to "do this, not that!" type posts on social media).

+100 Sometimes reading the advice given in books and articles I feel like these people have never actually met a real young child. They are like parents who had one easy child and think they know it all. I empathized, gave voice to and validated feelings but we also provided clear rules and consequences and a lot of structure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think empathy, modeling the behavior you want to see, and getting away from shame all make sense, but also think there are some parts of gentle parenting philosophy that are actively bad for parents and kids.

I think advice that tells parents (moms) that they can't express a full range of emotions is really problematic (the go in the garage and scream in a pillow rather than show frustration or anger in front of your child-to me that is messed up.

More harmful to me as the parent of a kid with anxiety is the constant smoothing of the path for kids. The experts in my life keep stressing that my role as a parent is to help my kid build distress tolerance. Kids need to know that they can hear "no" and they will be okay, that someone can be angry at them and they will be okay. If you don't have those small experiences of suffering and recovering through childhood-how do you get to a place where failing a test in college, or getting negative feedback from a boss is something you accept, recover, and work through. I see young people in my life who do not seem to be able to navigate even small adversities without falling apart and I wonder if there is a connection to this style of parenting.

I agree and think both of these are real risks and it doesn't help when parenting in the later years and leads to burnout.

I found that most parents struggled with trying to get their toddlers and preschoolers to stop doing things that totally just didn't matter at all.

I recall my friend getting into this ridiculously long session of back and forth with her almost 3 yr old because he wouldn't sit at the table to eat snack. I couldn't believe she could be so vested in that. She felt that if he didn't follow what she said now it would cascade over to other areas. It ended up with crying and threats of no snack and so no. I seem to recall he wanted to sit on the steps that led down into their family area/playroom. I didn't have the heart to tell her at home we let our child stand next to the table at dinner and eat. Yeah it was weird but we let her as long as she stood in one place and didn't run around. So for a few months, she put her plate on her chair and stood there and ate. We of course sat at the table and ate. One day she said she wanted her plate on the table and from then on she sat at the table and ate. She is now a teen, doesn't remember a thing about it, and can't believe she ever did something like that.

I see this all the time. Parents trying to control too many things (most of which don't matter at all) and ending up not controlling any at all. Food is a big one. Just the other day I saw several parents trying to force their children to wear jackets during outside play. The children wanted to play without wearing the jackets and for some reason it was a big deal for their mothers. A lot of crying, arguing etc.

This is the only thing from gentle parenting that is useful to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is talking about permissive parenting not gentle parenting. So her whole article is moot.

Nothing about gentle parenting says you cant have boundaries. Any of the gentle parenting books I have read or IG accounts I follow 100% espouse that gentle parenting is for allowing emotions and recognizing them without negating the need and enforcement of boundaries. For the shoe example or we are late example, you give them an opportunity to do it themselves and then you do it for them. That's holding the boundary. Shoes are not negotiable and school is not negotiable.

"I see you are having a hard time putting your shoes on today. (recognition) Mommy has a hard time too some days. (agreement that hard is normal) Im going to go get my purse and your bag for school. And when I come back I will help you put them on OR We are going to be late for school. I can put your shoes on for you or I can help you. You choose.
Nothing is said mean or with a wagging finger or a continuation in the car of "why do you make us late everyday. We do the same thing everyday. I think you do this on purpose because you are a naughty boy" It is said matter of fact and without blame/shame. Emotions are ok. Feeling slow/not wanting to do something is normal. There are days for being lazy and being barefoot, today is not one of them.

There are mitigation techniques. There are boundaries. There is getting to know your child and understand when they are struggling and when they are struggling. It isnt cut and dry and the important part is the sum of the whole. As a parent you will lose you temper. You will get frustrated. You will shame. You are allowed to be human. What you are not supposed to do is allow it to pass without recognizing and apologizing, without noticing your own struggling behaviors/triggers and working on them. There is no point to gentle parenting without actually learning how to enforce boundaries AND be gentle/respectful. Part of learning how to do that is understanding where they are coming from developmentally. Expectations are important but flawed and a source of discontentment with all parties if the kids are even capable of doing it.

I do agree with you, but my issue has always been that I don't know what to do when this tactic (logical consequences) doesn't work. I try this every damn morning, but my son just doesn't care, so I end up doing "I'm going to count to 5 and if you're not here to get dressed then (insert consequence)." It's usually that his current favorite toy is away for the remainder of the day, or after school tv time is cancelled. I know the consequence isn't connected to the behavior but it's the only thing that gets us out the door. I think the dissonance that a lot of parents feel is that we feel like if we're doing gentle parenting the right way, we shouldn't have to resort to authoritative parenting. But that just doesn't seem to work in practice. I still think a lot of gentle parenting tenets are great, but I think a lot of parents get wrapped up in doing them perfectly (especially with the constant exposure to "do this, not that!" type posts on social media).

How old is your kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is talking about permissive parenting not gentle parenting. So her whole article is moot.

Nothing about gentle parenting says you cant have boundaries. Any of the gentle parenting books I have read or IG accounts I follow 100% espouse that gentle parenting is for allowing emotions and recognizing them without negating the need and enforcement of boundaries. For the shoe example or we are late example, you give them an opportunity to do it themselves and then you do it for them. That's holding the boundary. Shoes are not negotiable and school is not negotiable.

"I see you are having a hard time putting your shoes on today. (recognition) Mommy has a hard time too some days. (agreement that hard is normal) Im going to go get my purse and your bag for school. And when I come back I will help you put them on OR We are going to be late for school. I can put your shoes on for you or I can help you. You choose.
Nothing is said mean or with a wagging finger or a continuation in the car of "why do you make us late everyday. We do the same thing everyday. I think you do this on purpose because you are a naughty boy" It is said matter of fact and without blame/shame. Emotions are ok. Feeling slow/not wanting to do something is normal. There are days for being lazy and being barefoot, today is not one of them.

There are mitigation techniques. There are boundaries. There is getting to know your child and understand when they are struggling and when they are struggling. It isnt cut and dry and the important part is the sum of the whole. As a parent you will lose you temper. You will get frustrated. You will shame. You are allowed to be human. What you are not supposed to do is allow it to pass without recognizing and apologizing, without noticing your own struggling behaviors/triggers and working on them. There is no point to gentle parenting without actually learning how to enforce boundaries AND be gentle/respectful. Part of learning how to do that is understanding where they are coming from developmentally. Expectations are important but flawed and a source of discontentment with all parties if the kids are even capable of doing it.

I do agree with you, but my issue has always been that I don't know what to do when this tactic (logical consequences) doesn't work. I try this every damn morning, but my son just doesn't care, so I end up doing "I'm going to count to 5 and if you're not here to get dressed then (insert consequence)." It's usually that his current favorite toy is away for the remainder of the day, or after school tv time is cancelled. I know the consequence isn't connected to the behavior but it's the only thing that gets us out the door. I think the dissonance that a lot of parents feel is that we feel like if we're doing gentle parenting the right way, we shouldn't have to resort to authoritative parenting. But that just doesn't seem to work in practice. I still think a lot of gentle parenting tenets are great, but I think a lot of parents get wrapped up in doing them perfectly (especially with the constant exposure to "do this, not that!" type posts on social media).

You’ll also note that the PP espousing gentle parenting eventually has to use physical means to get her kid to comply. “Put your shoes on or I’m going to do it for you.” I remember watching my pregnant friend telling her kid to get down from the swing to leave the park, she did the reminder, the countdown, etc, but it always got to “ok I’m going to have to move your body for you now.” So she had to wrestle him out of the swing and carry this large child to the car. And all I could think was how exhausted she always seemed and how this discipline method was going to fail 100 percent as soon as that baby was outside her body and she no longer had free hands all of the time.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand this criticism of gentle parenting methods because I don’t really get what the alternative being proposed is when we’re talking about challenging behaviors.

My general approach is to do what I can up front to avoid challenging behavior, which generally stems from my kid not having basic needs met (she’s tired, hungry, overstimulated, bored, or doesn’t have enough structure or predictability, etc.). None of this is gentle parenting OR authoritative parenting, it’s literally just the logistics of parenting. We have schedules and systems, we make sure meals happen on time, we don’t over schedule but we make sure there is some structure to gives days shape, etc. There’s no parenting philosophy behind this— it’s just my literal job as a parent.

But of course life isn’t perfect, kids are still learning, and issues are inevitable. When they happen, I find that staying calm is more productive than yelling or getting mad. I get better results and also it means we all feel better after.

Is the argument that I should yell, threaten, and criticize instead? That sounds awful to me. Yes, staying calm and patient is hard sometimes but I just don’t really see that there is a viable alternative that will get me good results and not destroy the trust and security I’ve worked hard to build.

[Anonymous]

I think there has been a parenting change in the last ten or fifteen years and now when I watch parents of toddlers, I am struck by how much long-winded talking they do to very small children. I mean long speeches about the shoes, or really complicated speeches to a toddler messing around in a sandbox, like, "I can see how you're getting dysregulated, you feel dysregulated don't you, that's why you're making poor choices, now if you keep making that choice you'll have to go inside." It seems both crazy tiring and also crazy ineffectual. It's exhausting even to overhear.

I am not saying we should treat toddlers like dogs, but it was actually a big parenting breakthrough for me when I realized my kids at 2 could only process one to two word instructions ("Shoes!" "No throwing!"). They could actually get that. It was confusing for them when I hid the instructions in a pile of words. I watch parents with little kids and I want to say, it's obvious the kid isn't really taking in a single thing you are saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there has been a parenting change in the last ten or fifteen years and now when I watch parents of toddlers, I am struck by how much long-winded talking they do to very small children. I mean long speeches about the shoes, or really complicated speeches to a toddler messing around in a sandbox, like, "I can see how you're getting dysregulated, you feel dysregulated don't you, that's why you're making poor choices, now if you keep making that choice you'll have to go inside." It seems both crazy tiring and also crazy ineffectual. It's exhausting even to overhear.

I am not saying we should treat toddlers like dogs, but it was actually a big parenting breakthrough for me when I realized my kids at 2 could only process one to two word instructions ("Shoes!" "No throwing!"). They could actually get that. It was confusing for them when I hid the instructions in a pile of words. I watch parents with little kids and I want to say, it's obvious the kid isn't really taking in a single thing you are saying.

It was happening 20+ years ago too. I remember one awful time lining up in the jetway to board a plane and a family with two littles behind me. Kid runs up and starts banging on the switchboard that controls the jetway. Mom has a lengthy talk with the 3/4 year old about how that’s not the right thing to do. Could have killed me, as I was the person on the edge of the jetway, but whatever. Same kid kicks my rolling suitcase all the way down the aisle. Then when we find our seats, kids are literally jumping up and down on them. I wasn’t a parent then and kept my mouth shut. Having raised my own kids now I wouldn’t handle it the same way again.

[Anonymous]

35 year old mom of 3, newborn to 5. There’s just so much judgment whatever you do. If you do gentle parenting, posters like many PP’s on here judge you bc it’s inefficient/ineffective. If you don’t do gentle parenting, you are marked as “uneducated.” No matter what you do, you’re a failure from the start just for having kids that need to be disciplined in the first place. A good mom would have kids who don’t misbehave in public at all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand this criticism of gentle parenting methods because I don’t really get what the alternative being proposed is when we’re talking about challenging behaviors.

My general approach is to do what I can up front to avoid challenging behavior, which generally stems from my kid not having basic needs met (she’s tired, hungry, overstimulated, bored, or doesn’t have enough structure or predictability, etc.). None of this is gentle parenting OR authoritative parenting, it’s literally just the logistics of parenting. We have schedules and systems, we make sure meals happen on time, we don’t over schedule but we make sure there is some structure to gives days shape, etc. There’s no parenting philosophy behind this— it’s just my literal job as a parent.

But of course life isn’t perfect, kids are still learning, and issues are inevitable. When they happen, I find that staying calm is more productive than yelling or getting mad. I get better results and also it means we all feel better after.

Is the argument that I should yell, threaten, and criticize instead? That sounds awful to me. Yes, staying calm and patient is hard sometimes but I just don’t really see that there is a viable alternative that will get me good results and not destroy the trust and security I’ve worked hard to build.

Ugh, no that’s not the alternative. “Gentle” in gentle parenting isn’t simply your vernacular understanding of gentle. It’s clear in the article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is talking about permissive parenting not gentle parenting. So her whole article is moot.

Nothing about gentle parenting says you cant have boundaries. Any of the gentle parenting books I have read or IG accounts I follow 100% espouse that gentle parenting is for allowing emotions and recognizing them without negating the need and enforcement of boundaries. For the shoe example or we are late example, you give them an opportunity to do it themselves and then you do it for them. That's holding the boundary. Shoes are not negotiable and school is not negotiable.

"I see you are having a hard time putting your shoes on today. (recognition) Mommy has a hard time too some days. (agreement that hard is normal) Im going to go get my purse and your bag for school. And when I come back I will help you put them on OR We are going to be late for school. I can put your shoes on for you or I can help you. You choose.
Nothing is said mean or with a wagging finger or a continuation in the car of "why do you make us late everyday. We do the same thing everyday. I think you do this on purpose because you are a naughty boy" It is said matter of fact and without blame/shame. Emotions are ok. Feeling slow/not wanting to do something is normal. There are days for being lazy and being barefoot, today is not one of them.

There are mitigation techniques. There are boundaries. There is getting to know your child and understand when they are struggling and when they are struggling. It isnt cut and dry and the important part is the sum of the whole. As a parent you will lose you temper. You will get frustrated. You will shame. You are allowed to be human. What you are not supposed to do is allow it to pass without recognizing and apologizing, without noticing your own struggling behaviors/triggers and working on them. There is no point to gentle parenting without actually learning how to enforce boundaries AND be gentle/respectful. Part of learning how to do that is understanding where they are coming from developmentally. Expectations are important but flawed and a source of discontentment with all parties if the kids are even capable of doing it.

I do agree with you, but my issue has always been that I don't know what to do when this tactic (logical consequences) doesn't work. I try this every damn morning, but my son just doesn't care, so I end up doing "I'm going to count to 5 and if you're not here to get dressed then (insert consequence)." It's usually that his current favorite toy is away for the remainder of the day, or after school tv time is cancelled. I know the consequence isn't connected to the behavior but it's the only thing that gets us out the door. I think the dissonance that a lot of parents feel is that we feel like if we're doing gentle parenting the right way, we shouldn't have to resort to authoritative parenting. But that just doesn't seem to work in practice. I still think a lot of gentle parenting tenets are great, but I think a lot of parents get wrapped up in doing them perfectly (especially with the constant exposure to "do this, not that!" type posts on social media).

You’ll also note that the PP espousing gentle parenting eventually has to use physical means to get her kid to comply. “Put your shoes on or I’m going to do it for you.” I remember watching my pregnant friend telling her kid to get down from the swing to leave the park, she did the reminder, the countdown, etc, but it always got to “ok I’m going to have to move your body for you now.” So she had to wrestle him out of the swing and carry this large child to the car. And all I could think was how exhausted she always seemed and how this discipline method was going to fail 100 percent as soon as that baby was outside her body and she no longer had free hands all of the time.

That is every parenting method. Eventually you have to do it if they don't do it themselves. But I don't give multiple and multiple opportunities and get more and more frustrated. By holding the boundary you're letting them know that there isn't any wiggle room. Consistency is key. I personally don't care if you wear shoes outside or in the car but the rule is that he needs to have shoes on at school so I enforce that rule. For example I don't make my kid get dressed if he wants to wear pajamas like he did to a fall festival great cool hope you're comfortable.
What's your great idea that doesn't involve using physical methods at some point like for example the shoes?

[Anonymous]

What I have absorbed from the zeitgeist is that I should be always validating and agreeing with the child’s emotions while never negotiating on rules and behaviors. But maybe I just haven’t read enough. I found Dr Becky irritating so I unfollowed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is talking about permissive parenting not gentle parenting. So her whole article is moot.

Nothing about gentle parenting says you cant have boundaries. Any of the gentle parenting books I have read or IG accounts I follow 100% espouse that gentle parenting is for allowing emotions and recognizing them without negating the need and enforcement of boundaries. For the shoe example or we are late example, you give them an opportunity to do it themselves and then you do it for them. That's holding the boundary. Shoes are not negotiable and school is not negotiable.

"I see you are having a hard time putting your shoes on today. (recognition) Mommy has a hard time too some days. (agreement that hard is normal) Im going to go get my purse and your bag for school. And when I come back I will help you put them on OR We are going to be late for school. I can put your shoes on for you or I can help you. You choose.
Nothing is said mean or with a wagging finger or a continuation in the car of "why do you make us late everyday. We do the same thing everyday. I think you do this on purpose because you are a naughty boy" It is said matter of fact and without blame/shame. Emotions are ok. Feeling slow/not wanting to do something is normal. There are days for being lazy and being barefoot, today is not one of them.

There are mitigation techniques. There are boundaries. There is getting to know your child and understand when they are struggling and when they are struggling. It isnt cut and dry and the important part is the sum of the whole. As a parent you will lose you temper. You will get frustrated. You will shame. You are allowed to be human. What you are not supposed to do is allow it to pass without recognizing and apologizing, without noticing your own struggling behaviors/triggers and working on them. There is no point to gentle parenting without actually learning how to enforce boundaries AND be gentle/respectful. Part of learning how to do that is understanding where they are coming from developmentally. Expectations are important but flawed and a source of discontentment with all parties if the kids are even capable of doing it.

I do agree with you, but my issue has always been that I don't know what to do when this tactic (logical consequences) doesn't work. I try this every damn morning, but my son just doesn't care, so I end up doing "I'm going to count to 5 and if you're not here to get dressed then (insert consequence)." It's usually that his current favorite toy is away for the remainder of the day, or after school tv time is cancelled. I know the consequence isn't connected to the behavior but it's the only thing that gets us out the door. I think the dissonance that a lot of parents feel is that we feel like if we're doing gentle parenting the right way, we shouldn't have to resort to authoritative parenting. But that just doesn't seem to work in practice. I still think a lot of gentle parenting tenets are great, but I think a lot of parents get wrapped up in doing them perfectly (especially with the constant exposure to "do this, not that!" type posts on social media).

My understanding of the logical consequences thing comes from Parenting with Love and Logic which I give a solid C in terms of realistic-ness, but I think it would say that the natural consequence is that they have to get in the car barefoot. They carry their shoes into school in a bag. There’s a whole long example about this and dressing in the book and I kind of forget the details but you might check it out if you like books. I found a lot of the book super helpful and some of the examples to be just bonkers and not realistic so ymmv.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is talking about permissive parenting not gentle parenting. So her whole article is moot.

Nothing about gentle parenting says you cant have boundaries. Any of the gentle parenting books I have read or IG accounts I follow 100% espouse that gentle parenting is for allowing emotions and recognizing them without negating the need and enforcement of boundaries. For the shoe example or we are late example, you give them an opportunity to do it themselves and then you do it for them. That's holding the boundary. Shoes are not negotiable and school is not negotiable.

"I see you are having a hard time putting your shoes on today. (recognition) Mommy has a hard time too some days. (agreement that hard is normal) Im going to go get my purse and your bag for school. And when I come back I will help you put them on OR We are going to be late for school. I can put your shoes on for you or I can help you. You choose.
Nothing is said mean or with a wagging finger or a continuation in the car of "why do you make us late everyday. We do the same thing everyday. I think you do this on purpose because you are a naughty boy" It is said matter of fact and without blame/shame. Emotions are ok. Feeling slow/not wanting to do something is normal. There are days for being lazy and being barefoot, today is not one of them.

There are mitigation techniques. There are boundaries. There is getting to know your child and understand when they are struggling and when they are struggling. It isnt cut and dry and the important part is the sum of the whole. As a parent you will lose you temper. You will get frustrated. You will shame. You are allowed to be human. What you are not supposed to do is allow it to pass without recognizing and apologizing, without noticing your own struggling behaviors/triggers and working on them. There is no point to gentle parenting without actually learning how to enforce boundaries AND be gentle/respectful. Part of learning how to do that is understanding where they are coming from developmentally. Expectations are important but flawed and a source of discontentment with all parties if the kids are even capable of doing it.

I do agree with you, but my issue has always been that I don't know what to do when this tactic (logical consequences) doesn't work. I try this every damn morning, but my son just doesn't care, so I end up doing "I'm going to count to 5 and if you're not here to get dressed then (insert consequence)." It's usually that his current favorite toy is away for the remainder of the day, or after school tv time is cancelled. I know the consequence isn't connected to the behavior but it's the only thing that gets us out the door. I think the dissonance that a lot of parents feel is that we feel like if we're doing gentle parenting the right way, we shouldn't have to resort to authoritative parenting. But that just doesn't seem to work in practice. I still think a lot of gentle parenting tenets are great, but I think a lot of parents get wrapped up in doing them perfectly (especially with the constant exposure to "do this, not that!" type posts on social media).

My understanding of the logical consequences thing comes from Parenting with Love and Logic which I give a solid C in terms of realistic-ness, but I think it would say that the natural consequence is that they have to get in the car barefoot. They carry their shoes into school in a bag. There’s a whole long example about this and dressing in the book and I kind of forget the details but you might check it out if you like books. I found a lot of the book super helpful and some of the examples to be just bonkers and not realistic so ymmv.

PS one of the parts that WAS helpful to me is that whether you do their shoe thing or not, you kind of accept that sometimes allowing natural consequences for your kid means some collateral damage to you as far as embarrassment, time, and planning (eg explaining the shoe plan to the teacher). So you have to accept and balance that.