“The Harsh Reality of Gentle Parenting”

[Anonymous]

I do not understand when parents became so afraid to tell their kids to knock it off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand when parents became so afraid to tell their kids to knock it off.

Oh man you’re so right. I am afraid to say that and if I only would, my child would be well-behaved.

[Anonymous]

I went to a fancy indoor playground today and there were a lot of chic moms narrating feelings. There was also a grandmother who fully hit her kid. The behavior of all the kids was about the same.

[Anonymous]

Agree with those saying the article is talking more about permissive parenting.

Gentle but authoritative approach has done wonders for me. I am extremely firm with my 3yo because she needs it, but I’m grateful to have learned to do it in a way that is healthy and builds connection. I have a demanding job and the last thing I want to do in my time with my kid is be in constant power struggle, conflict, making threats and punishments, etc. So this has been a great framework.

I also feel like it has shifted the way I manage people at work too - I place a little more emphasis on seeing where people are coming from now.

[Anonymous]

So, I also eye-roll at the narrating, and I love the 1-2-3 Magic Discipline book where they debunk the "children as little adults" fallacy.

But I think it might depend on the personality of your child, and how sensitive and people-pleasing they are.

Out of my two children, the sensitive and very verbal one legit benefits from me talking things through and long explanations; she likes to hear them and engages with them. In terms of discipline, shutting down a conversation abruptly, even if it needs shut down; tuning out when she whines .... SETS HER OFF, turns into a horrible tantrum. I'm seriously seeing the whole Janet Lansbury stuff with a new eye, and just recently started the narration of emotions, the explanations, etc. Because my instinctive approach, i.e. what my mom used on me - doesn't work.

The other one is challenging in other ways, more self-willed and very mobile, but the discipline path is easier. She tries to push a boundary, when I don't let her she frets and yells a bit but desists, might try again but there's no hard feelings or resentments harbored. Tantrums completely correlate with over-tiredness and/or hunger. Also, a lot less sensitive, at least not at all sensitive in the ways that the first one is sensitive.

But I think I will be incorporating more of this stuff into my parenting because again, some of my default approaches just aren't working or stopped working.

[Anonymous]

I'm seriously fantasizing about sending my kid to boarding school and running off by myself to the country. I really want out omg. Is there a book for that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really like Janet Lansbury. But I can't say I follow all her advice perfectly. I don't see most of these philosophies as something you need to do PERFECTLY. They are ideas. Ways to push your thinking about child rearing, and how to change your approach when you aren't getting the behavior you want. I do not see them as a holy gospel. I think that's our cultural problem, we want a check list of "how to do it right" when it's much more complicated than that.

Lansbury helped me be MUCH more empathetic with my toddler. Especially after I added a little brother to her life, which really did throw her in a tailspin. I still put her in timeout, so I was not The Perfect Unruffled Parent, but it helped me immensely see the limitations of my own "my way or the highway" attitude in getting what *I* wanted.

I think each generation finds improvements in parenting. But again, there is no one perfect doctrine. It just moves the needle. Look at how spanking has gone from common to derided in just one generation.

I agree with the gentle parenting philosophy, but for whatever reason Janet Lansbury just seems a little too extreme? Perfect? Annoying? idk. but when i listen to her I feel like she rarely gives practical advice for the problems, and basically only ever says things like "Connect with them' 'express how they're feeling'. Like yes yes i agree that this should be done, but little Timmy keeps putting little Becky in a headlock and that is not helpful.

I prefer people like biglittlefeelings and a couple other parenting podcasts i listen too who 1) provide actual practical solutions to problems and 2) Are less 'perfect' and are very real about making mistakes and you are not going to get it right all the time and that's ok.

Can you please share the parenting podcasts?

Parenting Beyond Discipline, is one i have liked, she is not as corny as Dr Becky (who i also like for some of her thought processes/explanations, but I find a bit hokey). It's hosted by Erin Royer, she falls into the Authoritative style (not gentle permissive) and her kids are tweens now so it is nice to have insight into some of the possible 'results' while trudging through toddler years.
I also like Raising good humans but some of that content isnt necessarily helpful or specifically problem solving

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m also a mental health professional, and I have to say that there are probably a certain number of kids who really do need this kind of parenting. I do a lot of DBT for borderline personality disorder, and my patients talk a lot about how they can’t trust their feelings. Most of them had abusive parents, but there is a certain subset that had normal parents, but were born with heightened emotional response to situations.

Marsha Linehan gives a great example in her book (CBT for Borderline Personality Disorder). She talks about a parent taking a child to the ocean, and the child is afraid to get into the water. Normal parent makes the child get in the water. Instead of calming down, the child screams louder and louder until normal parent takes them out of the water. What happens next time they go to the ocean? Child decides to skip the middle part and just starts screaming.
When this same kind of thing happens over and over again in different situations, a child who already had heightened emotions learns to either go off the rails screaming or stamp down her emotions (which later leads to cutting or other self harm).

I can see how a gentle parenting approach might really work for these kids. I wonder if the authors of these books were highly sensitive children or abused as children and struggled to see their own emotions as valid. And if you can match up gentle parent and highly sensitive kid, it probably works out really well. (Of course, these women often marry narcissists, so I wonder how dad feels about all of this gentle parenting…).

But a normal kid doesn’t need a parent to sit on the beach and talk about his feelings. He just needs to stand in the waves for a minute and get used to it. And a kid who isn’t highly emotional might actually feel smothered by all of this, and later on might see her mother as weak and unable to stand up for herself.

All this to say that I don’t think that there is fundamentally a problem with this approach, but it is useful only in certain situations and with a certain type of kid. For example, this might be a really excellent approach for foster parents of abused children. But it isn’t a catch-all for every situation.

Also, if this really speaks to you, and you feel that you weren’t validated as a child, I think that there is a good chance that you married someone who doesn’t validate you (people do), and if you do this, you might just be training your whole family to see you as weak and like your feelings and opinions don’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm seriously fantasizing about sending my kid to boarding school and running off by myself to the country. I really want out omg. Is there a book for that?

Yes.

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-House-Motherhood-Struggling-Depression/dp/0060843799

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m also a mental health professional, and I have to say that there are probably a certain number of kids who really do need this kind of parenting. I do a lot of DBT for borderline personality disorder, and my patients talk a lot about how they can’t trust their feelings. Most of them had abusive parents, but there is a certain subset that had normal parents, but were born with heightened emotional response to situations.

Marsha Linehan gives a great example in her book (CBT for Borderline Personality Disorder). She talks about a parent taking a child to the ocean, and the child is afraid to get into the water. Normal parent makes the child get in the water. Instead of calming down, the child screams louder and louder until normal parent takes them out of the water. What happens next time they go to the ocean? Child decides to skip the middle part and just starts screaming.
When this same kind of thing happens over and over again in different situations, a child who already had heightened emotions learns to either go off the rails screaming or stamp down her emotions (which later leads to cutting or other self harm).

I can see how a gentle parenting approach might really work for these kids. I wonder if the authors of these books were highly sensitive children or abused as children and struggled to see their own emotions as valid. And if you can match up gentle parent and highly sensitive kid, it probably works out really well. (Of course, these women often marry narcissists, so I wonder how dad feels about all of this gentle parenting…).

But a normal kid doesn’t need a parent to sit on the beach and talk about his feelings. He just needs to stand in the waves for a minute and get used to it. And a kid who isn’t highly emotional might actually feel smothered by all of this, and later on might see her mother as weak and unable to stand up for herself.

All this to say that I don’t think that there is fundamentally a problem with this approach, but it is useful only in certain situations and with a certain type of kid. For example, this might be a really excellent approach for foster parents of abused children. But it isn’t a catch-all for every situation.

Also, if this really speaks to you, and you feel that you weren’t validated as a child, I think that there is a good chance that you married someone who doesn’t validate you (people do), and if you do this, you might just be training your whole family to see you as weak and like your feelings and opinions don’t matter.

+1 to all this. I posted upthread about how the gentle parenting approach works for me because I come from an absuive/neglectful background (kind of a combination of actual abuse and the thing you are talking about where I was a sensitive child who had parents who didn't know how to deal with that, so they resorted to abusive behaviors like hitting and yelling). I had to reparent myself as an adult so gentle parenting methods are awesome for me because I need the guidance on emotional regulation, both for me and for my kid.

Sometimes I'm not sure if my kid is like the normal kid on the beach or the sensitive one. She does seem more sensitive than most kids, but is that because that's just how she is or is it at least in part because I am sensitive and she has learned to read my moods or picked up on my heightened awareness of both my feelings and other people's? It's hard to say and I don't think we'll ever really know.

But one thing that helps me, and my family, is that I did NOT marry a narcissist and my DH does validate me as a person. He also did not come from an abusive background and has more normal/healthy relationships with his parent. So while I use gentle parenting methods, he's more of a classic authoritative parent. And while this does produce some conflict, I think it's great for our kid in the end. She knows that if she needs the long explanation and super empathetic approach, I am available for that. I'll explain everything and check in with her that she understands and also listen patiently as she works through stuff. But if she needs a more straightforward yes/no, or just to no have to delve into everyone's feelings all the time, her dad knows how to set clear boundaries and be clear and keep it simple. Sometimes she finds him too harsh and runs to me, but sometimes she likes not having things be so touchy feely. Best of both worlds, as far as I'm concerned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with those saying the article is talking more about permissive parenting.

Gentle but authoritative approach has done wonders for me. I am extremely firm with my 3yo because she needs it, but I’m grateful to have learned to do it in a way that is healthy and builds connection. I have a demanding job and the last thing I want to do in my time with my kid is be in constant power struggle, conflict, making threats and punishments, etc. So this has been a great framework.

I also feel like it has shifted the way I manage people at work too - I place a little more emphasis on seeing where people are coming from now.

+1 to the idea that learning to be empathetic while also setting firm boundaries and being willing to say "no" has been a revelation both as a parent and as a person in the world. It's helped me at work too, but I've really seen a shift in my friendships. I used to be a doormat. Becoming a parent has helped me learn to set clearer boundaries with friends and not feel guilt that they might get mad. Because I set good and important boundaries with my kid all the time and yes, sometimes they make her mad at first. That doesn't mean they are wrong. And of course that logic applies to other adults.

I've gotten really good at telling people that while I understand where they are coming from and want them to be happy, it can't come at the expense of my own well-being. One of the best life lessons I've ever gotten. Happy to be teaching it to my kid at a young age (my own mom was a doormat/martyr and I think she modeled a lot of unhealthy behavior for me).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just skimmed the article, so I could be off base, but I'm not sure if our definitions of gentle parenting are the same.

I have a child who is extremely anxious. When she says she is too anxious to go to school, I am gentle and understanding, but I make her go to school.

When I am angry, I don't bottle up my emotions, but I also don't take my anger out on my kids or suggest that they are somehow the cause of my anger.

If my kid doesn't want to do an assignment, I don't make them do an assignment, but I also wouldn't dream of shielding them from the teacher's consequences of not handing in the assignment.

I don't yell at my kid when they don't do their chores, but I do stand next to them and keep asking them to do their chores until they do them, rather than just not giving my kids chores.

My approach is really not outcome-based, it's more needs-based, which is why I'm generally attracted to the idea of gentle parenting. And so much of what kids need is boundaries, guidance through difficult times (rather than help avoiding difficult times), and allowing kids to fail.

So, I dunno. I wonder if it's hard to talk about gentle parenting because the terms aren't firmly defined.

Agree with this, maybe there is an aspect to gentle parenting that is little or extreme or permissive that people associate it with, but this is very much how i have heard it being implemented. Another name for it is Authoritative Parenting, which i think people will have more time accepting bc it sounds stronger. But ultimately it is the same concept of being empathetic and responsive to emotional needs, while holding strong boundaries and allowing for natural consequences in many situations.

This is also how I understand gentle parenting.

Boundaries and consequences instead of punishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think so many aspects of gentle parenting are stupid. There, I said it. No, I do not yell at or harshly discipline my children. Yes, I am empathetic and kind with them, but this bullshit narrating their feelings to them and holding mine in is stupid.

Why do you think it’s bullshit? There is a lot of research on the benefits of helping kids understand what their emotions are and guiding them through coping with those emotions. As for holding your feelings in…I think it’s good for kids to see you get frustrated, but it’s bad for kids to see you lose your shit and it’s terrible for parents to vent at your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think so many aspects of gentle parenting are stupid. There, I said it. No, I do not yell at or harshly discipline my children. Yes, I am empathetic and kind with them, but this bullshit narrating their feelings to them and holding mine in is stupid.

Why do you think it’s bullshit? There is a lot of research on the benefits of helping kids understand what their emotions are and guiding them through coping with those emotions. As for holding your feelings in…I think it’s good for kids to see you get frustrated, but it’s bad for kids to see you lose your shit and it’s terrible for parents to vent at your kids.

DP. I agree. I think kids need to feel and understand emotions but I think self-control is also important, needs to come first. No hitting needs to be the first lesson, next is what anger is and what it feels like.

When children are older, they need to have self-control first, then emotions. IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand when parents became so afraid to tell their kids to knock it off.

Oh man you’re so right. I am afraid to say that and if I only would, my child would be well-behaved.

Yeah, why didn't I think of that? "Kids, knock it off!" Done. Whew, so much easier.