"Perfect on paper husband," just not in love with him

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, perhaps my perspective may help you. I was you, but I said "no" to the guy.

In graduate school I met the perfect “on paper” guy. Smart, kind (to me), destined to be successful. Conventionally good-looking, wealthy family, etc. I come from a lefty, albeit well-off family, and am definitely quirky, so I was always confused by his dogged pursuit of me. Anyway, he was everything I was “supposed to” want. And the attention was initially flattering. I felt compelled to date him. So I did, at 27. We moved in together at 31, when we were 32, he was ready to propose. And it terrified me.

I knew that we weren’t compatible. But his utter assurance that we were and would have a great life was both confusing and made me doubt my own feelings. Didn’t I want a great life? Didn’t I want to be comfortable?

Well…of course. But something told me it would be a terrible mistake. I used to actually have dreams about a bird trapped in a cage, beating its wings against the bars while feathers exploded from the sides (cliché, I know). Still, I wasn’t convinced a guy this “solid” would come along again.

And I was right.

I had several serious relationships after that, but it did get harder as I got older, and I did notice, as PPs have pointed out, a decline in the quality of men as I and they aged. Sadly, ex is definitely the most “solid” guy in my history. At 37, I had a beautiful child on my own who is 3 now. I’m 41, and after taking a 4 year hiatus from dating, am putting myself out there again. It’s actually much easier than I thought it would be; I’ve had several sweet, successful divorced dads with young kids reach out to me (this is not everyone’s idea of perfect, I realize), and I think there’s a good one in there. But it won’t be easy; I grew up in a blended family and the step-parents/kids dynamic can be complex.

I know there are people who would read this and think, “Jesus. You could’ve had 3 kids, a huge house/vacation house, your career, a husband, and you gave all that up for what you wrote above??”

And the answer is yes. For me, that was what was right. My ex was all that I described: top of his class, “chiseled” good looks, treated me well. He also had a penchant for making fun of overweight people, came from a family with a hardcore ingrained gender roles that I was terrified we’d repeat, and was pretty bad in bed. These are just a few things, but they were some of the many things no one else knew but me. So he was “perfect”. Just not perfect for me.

My parents occasionally bring him up…how is Larlo doing? He’s good. He married a 100% vanilla-esque girl from our grad program (sounds bitchy, I know, but I think this was what he wanted, and good for him for finding it), and they just had their second child. We collaborated on a book together in our field, which is small, so we’re still in touch. And friendly.

When I look around my 2 bedroom condo in NW I think, occasionally, that I could have lived in AU park in a 5 bedroom house and been a member of the country club. The house I’d take. The country club? No thanks. It’s hard to have one without the other, which is a lot like life. Whether my choices are considered strange or not by others, I’ve lived life on my own terms. And that part I’ve never regretted.

I agree with others that therapy may help you connect with your spouse in ways that might surprise you. I wish I’d had the balls to talk to my ex frankly about sex, to tell him how horrified I was by the way his family treated his mother, etc. Maybe it would’ve made a difference. I suspect it would not have. But you’ve got a lot more invested, and I think it’s worth a try. If for no other reason than you can’t honestly get to the next step unless you’ve explored this first.

My best to you.

If.you are still brooding about this ten years later it means you know it was a huge.mistake.not.to.marry him. You like many people are.just a commitment phobe.

I think PP sounds quite content with her choice. Perfect on paper people tend to have a lot of baggage that outsiders are not aware of.

[Anonymous]

Do whatever you need to, OP, but be aware that didn't find anyone to marry in 33 single years who made you feel the way you way you think you should have. It's only going to be harder now. Not saying it's impossible, but it will be harder. Leave your husband if you feel you can't live with him the way things are, but do so with the knowledge that you might be alone, and accept that, not because you think you can get what you want (passionate love with someone successful who wants to commit, accepts your children, etc.) You might, but you also might not. And I suspect your husband will be snapped up as soon as he's ready by some other woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/happily-ever-after/372573/

From the article:

Throughout the day, partners would make requests for connection, what Gottman calls “bids.” For example, say that the husband is a bird enthusiast and notices a goldfinch fly across the yard. He might say to his wife, “Look at that beautiful bird outside!” He’s not just commenting on the bird here: he’s requesting a response from his wife—a sign of interest or support—hoping they’ll connect, however momentarily, over the bird.

The wife now has a choice. She can respond by either “turning toward” or “turning away” from her husband, as Gottman puts it. Though the bird-bid might seem minor and silly, it can actually reveal a lot about the health of the relationship. The husband thought the bird was important enough to bring it up in conversation and the question is whether his wife recognizes and respects that.

People who turned toward their partners in the study responded by engaging the bidder, showing interest and support in the bid. Those who didn’t—those who turned away—would not respond or respond minimally and continue doing whatever they were doing, like watching TV or reading the paper. Sometimes they would respond with overt hostility, saying something like, “Stop interrupting me, I’m reading.”

These bidding interactions had profound effects on marital well-being. Couples who had divorced after a six-year follow up had “turn-toward bids” 33 percent of the time. Only three in ten of their bids for emotional connection were met with intimacy. The couples who were still together after six years had “turn-toward bids” 87 percent of the time. Nine times out of ten, they were meeting their partner’s emotional needs.

Gottman seems to have observed natural chemistry in action (bids being met with genuine interest, striking the right chord) and then is raising the possibility of applying the same behaviors to other situations in a sort of fake chemistry. I wouldn't do this while dating and trying to choose a mate. Don't feign interest if someone brings up a topic you aren't interested in, if what they say seems "off" to you, if you have a feeling of wrongness about it. Don't compromise on genuine interest. However, if you are trapped in a situation like needing to stay together for the sake of small children, the techniques of pretending to be receptive to bids could be useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, perhaps my perspective may help you. I was you, but I said "no" to the guy.

In graduate school I met the perfect “on paper” guy. Smart, kind (to me), destined to be successful. Conventionally good-looking, wealthy family, etc. I come from a lefty, albeit well-off family, and am definitely quirky, so I was always confused by his dogged pursuit of me. Anyway, he was everything I was “supposed to” want. And the attention was initially flattering. I felt compelled to date him. So I did, at 27. We moved in together at 31, when we were 32, he was ready to propose. And it terrified me.

I knew that we weren’t compatible. But his utter assurance that we were and would have a great life was both confusing and made me doubt my own feelings. Didn’t I want a great life? Didn’t I want to be comfortable?

Well…of course. But something told me it would be a terrible mistake. I used to actually have dreams about a bird trapped in a cage, beating its wings against the bars while feathers exploded from the sides (cliché, I know). Still, I wasn’t convinced a guy this “solid” would come along again.

And I was right.

I had several serious relationships after that, but it did get harder as I got older, and I did notice, as PPs have pointed out, a decline in the quality of men as I and they aged. Sadly, ex is definitely the most “solid” guy in my history. At 37, I had a beautiful child on my own who is 3 now. I’m 41, and after taking a 4 year hiatus from dating, am putting myself out there again. It’s actually much easier than I thought it would be; I’ve had several sweet, successful divorced dads with young kids reach out to me (this is not everyone’s idea of perfect, I realize), and I think there’s a good one in there. But it won’t be easy; I grew up in a blended family and the step-parents/kids dynamic can be complex.

I know there are people who would read this and think, “Jesus. You could’ve had 3 kids, a huge house/vacation house, your career, a husband, and you gave all that up for what you wrote above??”

And the answer is yes. For me, that was what was right. My ex was all that I described: top of his class, “chiseled” good looks, treated me well. He also had a penchant for making fun of overweight people, came from a family with a hardcore ingrained gender roles that I was terrified we’d repeat, and was pretty bad in bed. These are just a few things, but they were some of the many things no one else knew but me. So he was “perfect”. Just not perfect for me.

My parents occasionally bring him up…how is Larlo doing? He’s good. He married a 100% vanilla-esque girl from our grad program (sounds bitchy, I know, but I think this was what he wanted, and good for him for finding it), and they just had their second child. We collaborated on a book together in our field, which is small, so we’re still in touch. And friendly.

When I look around my 2 bedroom condo in NW I think, occasionally, that I could have lived in AU park in a 5 bedroom house and been a member of the country club. The house I’d take. The country club? No thanks. It’s hard to have one without the other, which is a lot like life. Whether my choices are considered strange or not by others, I’ve lived life on my own terms. And that part I’ve never regretted.

I agree with others that therapy may help you connect with your spouse in ways that might surprise you. I wish I’d had the balls to talk to my ex frankly about sex, to tell him how horrified I was by the way his family treated his mother, etc. Maybe it would’ve made a difference. I suspect it would not have. But you’ve got a lot more invested, and I think it’s worth a try. If for no other reason than you can’t honestly get to the next step unless you’ve explored this first.

My best to you.

If.you are still brooding about this ten years later it means you know it was a huge.mistake.not.to.marry him. You like many people are.just a commitment phobe.

I think PP sounds quite content with her choice. Perfect on paper people tend to have a lot of baggage that outsiders are not aware of.

I'm the "I said no" poster, and above PP is correct. Not brooding, although I do think it's a good idea to reflect on past choices with a retrospective view. It was clear to me back then that saying no meant I might never marry. Thankfully, that ended up being OK with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, perhaps my perspective may help you. I was you, but I said "no" to the guy.

In graduate school I met the perfect “on paper” guy. Smart, kind (to me), destined to be successful. Conventionally good-looking, wealthy family, etc. I come from a lefty, albeit well-off family, and am definitely quirky, so I was always confused by his dogged pursuit of me. Anyway, he was everything I was “supposed to” want. And the attention was initially flattering. I felt compelled to date him. So I did, at 27. We moved in together at 31, when we were 32, he was ready to propose. And it terrified me.

I knew that we weren’t compatible. But his utter assurance that we were and would have a great life was both confusing and made me doubt my own feelings. Didn’t I want a great life? Didn’t I want to be comfortable?

Well…of course. But something told me it would be a terrible mistake. I used to actually have dreams about a bird trapped in a cage, beating its wings against the bars while feathers exploded from the sides (cliché, I know). Still, I wasn’t convinced a guy this “solid” would come along again.

And I was right.

I had several serious relationships after that, but it did get harder as I got older, and I did notice, as PPs have pointed out, a decline in the quality of men as I and they aged. Sadly, ex is definitely the most “solid” guy in my history. At 37, I had a beautiful child on my own who is 3 now. I’m 41, and after taking a 4 year hiatus from dating, am putting myself out there again. It’s actually much easier than I thought it would be; I’ve had several sweet, successful divorced dads with young kids reach out to me (this is not everyone’s idea of perfect, I realize), and I think there’s a good one in there. But it won’t be easy; I grew up in a blended family and the step-parents/kids dynamic can be complex.

I know there are people who would read this and think, “Jesus. You could’ve had 3 kids, a huge house/vacation house, your career, a husband, and you gave all that up for what you wrote above??”

And the answer is yes. For me, that was what was right. My ex was all that I described: top of his class, “chiseled” good looks, treated me well. He also had a penchant for making fun of overweight people, came from a family with a hardcore ingrained gender roles that I was terrified we’d repeat, and was pretty bad in bed. These are just a few things, but they were some of the many things no one else knew but me. So he was “perfect”. Just not perfect for me.

My parents occasionally bring him up…how is Larlo doing? He’s good. He married a 100% vanilla-esque girl from our grad program (sounds bitchy, I know, but I think this was what he wanted, and good for him for finding it), and they just had their second child. We collaborated on a book together in our field, which is small, so we’re still in touch. And friendly.

When I look around my 2 bedroom condo in NW I think, occasionally, that I could have lived in AU park in a 5 bedroom house and been a member of the country club. The house I’d take. The country club? No thanks. It’s hard to have one without the other, which is a lot like life. Whether my choices are considered strange or not by others, I’ve lived life on my own terms. And that part I’ve never regretted.

I agree with others that therapy may help you connect with your spouse in ways that might surprise you. I wish I’d had the balls to talk to my ex frankly about sex, to tell him how horrified I was by the way his family treated his mother, etc. Maybe it would’ve made a difference. I suspect it would not have. But you’ve got a lot more invested, and I think it’s worth a try. If for no other reason than you can’t honestly get to the next step unless you’ve explored this first.

My best to you.

If.you are still brooding about this ten years later it means you know it was a huge.mistake.not.to.marry him. You like many people are.just a commitment phobe.

I think PP sounds quite content with her choice. Perfect on paper people tend to have a lot of baggage that outsiders are not aware of.

According to OP, her husband's biggest "baggage" is that he is kissing her during sex and not participating in vapid discussions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, perhaps my perspective may help you. I was you, but I said "no" to the guy.

In graduate school I met the perfect “on paper” guy. Smart, kind (to me), destined to be successful. Conventionally good-looking, wealthy family, etc. I come from a lefty, albeit well-off family, and am definitely quirky, so I was always confused by his dogged pursuit of me. Anyway, he was everything I was “supposed to” want. And the attention was initially flattering. I felt compelled to date him. So I did, at 27. We moved in together at 31, when we were 32, he was ready to propose. And it terrified me.

I knew that we weren’t compatible. But his utter assurance that we were and would have a great life was both confusing and made me doubt my own feelings. Didn’t I want a great life? Didn’t I want to be comfortable?

Well…of course. But something told me it would be a terrible mistake. I used to actually have dreams about a bird trapped in a cage, beating its wings against the bars while feathers exploded from the sides (cliché, I know). Still, I wasn’t convinced a guy this “solid” would come along again.

And I was right.

I had several serious relationships after that, but it did get harder as I got older, and I did notice, as PPs have pointed out, a decline in the quality of men as I and they aged. Sadly, ex is definitely the most “solid” guy in my history. At 37, I had a beautiful child on my own who is 3 now. I’m 41, and after taking a 4 year hiatus from dating, am putting myself out there again. It’s actually much easier than I thought it would be; I’ve had several sweet, successful divorced dads with young kids reach out to me (this is not everyone’s idea of perfect, I realize), and I think there’s a good one in there. But it won’t be easy; I grew up in a blended family and the step-parents/kids dynamic can be complex.

I know there are people who would read this and think, “Jesus. You could’ve had 3 kids, a huge house/vacation house, your career, a husband, and you gave all that up for what you wrote above??”

And the answer is yes. For me, that was what was right. My ex was all that I described: top of his class, “chiseled” good looks, treated me well. He also had a penchant for making fun of overweight people, came from a family with a hardcore ingrained gender roles that I was terrified we’d repeat, and was pretty bad in bed. These are just a few things, but they were some of the many things no one else knew but me. So he was “perfect”. Just not perfect for me.

My parents occasionally bring him up…how is Larlo doing? He’s good. He married a 100% vanilla-esque girl from our grad program (sounds bitchy, I know, but I think this was what he wanted, and good for him for finding it), and they just had their second child. We collaborated on a book together in our field, which is small, so we’re still in touch. And friendly.

When I look around my 2 bedroom condo in NW I think, occasionally, that I could have lived in AU park in a 5 bedroom house and been a member of the country club. The house I’d take. The country club? No thanks. It’s hard to have one without the other, which is a lot like life. Whether my choices are considered strange or not by others, I’ve lived life on my own terms. And that part I’ve never regretted.

I agree with others that therapy may help you connect with your spouse in ways that might surprise you. I wish I’d had the balls to talk to my ex frankly about sex, to tell him how horrified I was by the way his family treated his mother, etc. Maybe it would’ve made a difference. I suspect it would not have. But you’ve got a lot more invested, and I think it’s worth a try. If for no other reason than you can’t honestly get to the next step unless you’ve explored this first.

My best to you.

If.you are still brooding about this ten years later it means you know it was a huge.mistake.not.to.marry him. You like many people are.just a commitment phobe.

I think PP sounds quite content with her choice. Perfect on paper people tend to have a lot of baggage that outsiders are not aware of.

According to OP, her husband's biggest "baggage" is that he is kissing her during sex and not participating in vapid discussions.

OP, you come across as massively immature and unrealistic. Snap out of it. Newsflash: you may not have married the man of your dreams, but that's only because such a man could not humanly exist. You married a great guy. Lucky you. Don't mess things up and ruin your kids' life for a childish fantasy.

[Anonymous]

Similar situation. Married to a handsome successful surgeon. Have no butterflies. Have previously been in love. DH won me over with effort and charm. Once we had kids, the effort is gone. For now, he is a good guy and provider. Everyone seems to think he is amazing except for me. I have pity sex about once a month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Similar situation. Married to a handsome successful surgeon. Have no butterflies. Have previously been in love. DH won me over with effort and charm. Once we had kids, the effort is gone. For now, he is a good guy and provider. Everyone seems to think he is amazing except for me. I have pity sex about once a month.

What do you plan to do? Leave when kids are older?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Similar situation. Married to a handsome successful surgeon. Have no butterflies. Have previously been in love. DH won me over with effort and charm. Once we had kids, the effort is gone. For now, he is a good guy and provider. Everyone seems to think he is amazing except for me. I have pity sex about once a month.

He won you over with his surgeon's salary. Don't pretend otherwise. Yet you pretended to love and be attracted to him to get the kaching. It's all his fault, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Similar situation. Married to a handsome successful surgeon. Have no butterflies. Have previously been in love. DH won me over with effort and charm. Once we had kids, the effort is gone. For now, he is a good guy and provider. Everyone seems to think he is amazing except for me. I have pity sex about once a month.

He won you over with his surgeon's salary. Don't pretend otherwise. Yet you pretended to love and be attracted to him to get the kaching. It's all his fault, of course.

Maybe he pretended to enjoy conversations with her because she was beautiful and brainy -- good genes to pass on to the children. But he dreams of his brainless ex with the raunchy sense of humor. They had crazy chemistry. People learn and grow. Give them both a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Similar situation. Married to a handsome successful surgeon. Have no butterflies. Have previously been in love. DH won me over with effort and charm. Once we had kids, the effort is gone. For now, he is a good guy and provider. Everyone seems to think he is amazing except for me. I have pity sex about once a month.

He won you over with his surgeon's salary. Don't pretend otherwise. Yet you pretended to love and be attracted to him to get the kaching. It's all his fault, of course.

Maybe he pretended to enjoy conversations with her because she was beautiful and brainy -- good genes to pass on to the children. But he dreams of his brainless ex with the raunchy sense of humor. They had crazy chemistry. People learn and grow. Give them both a break.

but these people are not "learning and growing" - they are actually going backwards, especially the OP, who, despite having small children, is considering divorce because she didn't feel butterflies 7 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Some people just have way too much time on their hands. All this navel gazing must be exhausting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Similar situation. Married to a handsome successful surgeon. Have no butterflies. Have previously been in love. DH won me over with effort and charm. Once we had kids, the effort is gone. For now, he is a good guy and provider. Everyone seems to think he is amazing except for me. I have pity sex about once a month.

He won you over with his surgeon's salary. Don't pretend otherwise. Yet you pretended to love and be attracted to him to get the kaching. It's all his fault, of course.

DH was a resident when we got married. I was actually the main breadwinner for tbe first 5 years of our marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Similar situation. Married to a handsome successful surgeon. Have no butterflies. Have previously been in love. DH won me over with effort and charm. Once we had kids, the effort is gone. For now, he is a good guy and provider. Everyone seems to think he is amazing except for me. I have pity sex about once a month.

Don't feel bad pp. He's getting plenty on the side with nurses, or techs and reps

[Anonymous]

You were wrong to marry him if you didn't tell him that you didn't love him.