Catholic mom wants us to essentially say grace as part of our Jewish kid’s education ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Well the OP came here looking for opinions and advice so that's kind of what's done here. Let me make this easy for you. If someone posted that their mother was giving the kid candy and they didn't like that I would say well if the kid is diabetic that is a hard no but if not I'd say to lighten up. So in this case if it is forbidden I'd say "Tell your mom it is a hard no and why" if it is just a matter of preference I might suggest relaxing a bit in the interest of family harmony. Being an adult doesn't mean you get to do what you want when you want, being a true adult means considering how other people feel and making reasonable accommodations sometimes for the benefit of someone else.

Giving advice is "you should try this"

Giving advice is not "You should try this" "that won't work for me" "well you had better tell me exactly why, if you don't see it my way you are not an adult, why are you still arguing with me" etc, etc etc. That is haranguing.

Clearly OP does not agree with your approach. You are not helping her, and do not appear to be here to help. You appear to be here to argue. (And perhaps to attack an approach to Jewish life you do not like)

Being a true adult would be to recognize when your advice has turned into nagging and haranguing and yes trolling. An easy accomodation for you would be to walk away from this.

Its not up to you to judge what is a hard no, when she should lighten up, etc.

I am a Jew who married another Jew, so thank heaven I was never in this situation. I personally would have seen this is the way the OP is seeing it - something to say no to without needing a hard and fast halachic ban to justify it.

Only difference (aside from me knowing the specific brachot) is that I would have had the sense to quickly realize when I am facing DCUM's ignorant know it alls, and walk away.

I hope OP will learn to do that.

[Anonymous]

Being an adult means knowing there is a zone in between "Its strictly forbidden by my religion" and "its just my personal preference" Being an adult means recognizing subtlety, which can mean (in this instance) a committment to a committed Jewish home, to what is normal practice in a Jewish home, to what contributes to Jewish education, and more broadly, not having a Christian (even her mom!) have a direct say in the child's religious education.

Be aware that some groups in Judaism would specifically warn a convert away from contact with their relatives for this reason. OP is making an effort to maintain a relationship. She does not have to do it on terms that please DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well the OP came here looking for opinions and advice so that's kind of what's done here. Let me make this easy for you. If someone posted that their mother was giving the kid candy and they didn't like that I would say well if the kid is diabetic that is a hard no but if not I'd say to lighten up. So in this case if it is forbidden I'd say "Tell your mom it is a hard no and why" if it is just a matter of preference I might suggest relaxing a bit in the interest of family harmony. Being an adult doesn't mean you get to do what you want when you want, being a true adult means considering how other people feel and making reasonable accommodations sometimes for the benefit of someone else.

Giving advice is "you should try this"

Giving advice is not "You should try this" "that won't work for me" "well you had better tell me exactly why, if you don't see it my way you are not an adult, why are you still arguing with me" etc, etc etc. That is haranguing.

Clearly OP does not agree with your approach. You are not helping her, and do not appear to be here to help. You appear to be here to argue. (And perhaps to attack an approach to Jewish life you do not like)

Being a true adult would be to recognize when your advice has turned into nagging and haranguing and yes trolling. An easy accomodation for you would be to walk away from this.

Its not up to you to judge what is a hard no, when she should lighten up, etc.

I am a Jew who married another Jew, so thank heaven I was never in this situation. I personally would have seen this is the way the OP is seeing it - something to say no to without needing a hard and fast halachic ban to justify it.

Only difference (aside from me knowing the specific brachot) is that I would have had the sense to quickly realize when I am facing DCUM's ignorant know it alls, and walk away.

I hope OP will learn to do that.

I never even addressed the OP except to ask my questions. THe only person I've argued with is you who seems incapable of engaging in any kind of rational conversation at all. Frankly it is not for anyone to tell her what to do except that she came here asking just that. I haven't told her what I think she should do because I don't have all the information, but given your unwillingness and OP's unwillingness to answer the question I'm going to assume that it isn't forbidden and I would tell her that it is a good thing to model respect and concern for those in our lives and do the prayer when with the mother and not when she is without her. Clearly I hit some sort of nerve for you. Your name calling and animosity toward a total, digital stranger is unwarranted and maybe something you should reflect upon. I wish you the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admittedly, I haven’t read the entire thread, but I don’t understand the part about praying for the sick or other individual people during grace. That is not a Catholic thing or even a generally Christian thing. Grace before meals is simply supposed to be a prayer of thanks for the food given, not a time to offer up prayers for for general petitions.

Mom is having a spiritual crisis and inflicting it on those around her. Doesn't sound like mom is doing the work she needs to do to figure out where she belongs, though.

+1 I was raised Catholic and said a traditional Catholic grace. I'm now Methodist and when my kids attended a Methodist preschool they learned a different grace and we switched to saying that. Neither one has anything to do with praying for specific people. It's a ritual of thankfulness not a free-form praying for everything (that's more of a bedtime prayers think in my experience). Certainly, some Christians do that at mealtimes but there not one way it HAS to be done.

Regardless, Grandma is out of line. The fact that she keeps pushing it makes me think OP hasn't given her a firm and repeated "no." She needs to stop engaging on it in anyway, the answer is "no", period.

I have given her many firm replies. She is an exceptionally pushy person. I will keep trying.

I hear you OP. My mother is also very pushy about some child rearing issues. After 10 times I just ignore it and change the subject or at the most say "we discussed this, I know how you feel and you know how I feel about this. It won't change". Done. It's really hard. Don't frame it as "trying" frame it as the new way of dealing with your mom about issues you disagree on. This won't be the only one. You don't have to agree but she has to grudgingly respect your choice as a parent.

What a grown up response, PP. This is ANOTHER good example for you Op.

OP here. I appreciate that this person acknowledged that they share my experience. I consider this much more helpful than those who make all of this sound so easy. Notice how this person said "It's really hard" and "I hear you."

You let this go on for 16 pages and all you wanted was validation? That's so cute. Shut up, OP. I hear you, you're a loser. It's hard, especially when you're a loser.

Nah. OP just loves the attention, and this thread is giving her that in spades, so she’s a winner.

DP here

This is why I don't post personal stuff on here. This is an anon forum, filled with really nasty people, who want to spend their time being cruel. OP is just defending herself.

To OP - please learn what this place is. Seek help somewhere else.

The person trolling OP - You need help. I hope you find it.

OP is the troll here. There are multiple people responding to her.

[Anonymous]

OP didn't come back after someone came to the conclusion that this was all money-related. Hm....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP didn't come back after someone came to the conclusion that this was all money-related. Hm....

I’ve been reading it all.

I didn’t think the money thing merited a response because it’s so insane.

My mom is asking us to do something in our own home, without her, that is not part of our religion. I will keep pushing her to stop harping on it. That’s my plan.

Some of you have been exceptionally mean about this situation. I hope you use the new year to reflect on why you feel the need to be so nasty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP didn't come back after someone came to the conclusion that this was all money-related. Hm....

I’ve been reading it all.

I didn’t think the money thing merited a response because it’s so insane.

My mom is asking us to do something in our own home, without her, that is not part of our religion. I will keep pushing her to stop harping on it. That’s my plan.

Some of you have been exceptionally mean about this situation. I hope you use the new year to reflect on why you feel the need to be so nasty.

Pot meet kettle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP didn't come back after someone came to the conclusion that this was all money-related. Hm....

I’ve been reading it all.

I didn’t think the money thing merited a response because it’s so insane.

My mom is asking us to do something in our own home, without her, that is not part of our religion. I will keep pushing her to stop harping on it. That’s my plan.

Some of you have been exceptionally mean about this situation. I hope you use the new year to reflect on why you feel the need to be so nasty.

Pot meet kettle

I don’t think I’ve been mean on here. Some of you have called me nasty and juvenile names.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP needs to show a little more respect to her mother

By adhering to her wishes regarding my kid’s religious education? Why? How is it her business? She’s not my religion.

OP is overcompensating because by dint of her Christian mother she’s not even considered Jewish by some Jews. So she’s being super Jew on this minor issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP needs to show a little more respect to her mother

By adhering to her wishes regarding my kid’s religious education? Why? How is it her business? She’s not my religion.

OP is overcompensating because by dint of her Christian mother she’s not even considered Jewish by some Jews. So she’s being super Jew on this minor issue.

I can assure you I’m really not. My conservative Jewish husband and his family consider me Jewish, as does our shul. I’m really not concerned about my Jewishness.

[Anonymous]

Not wanting to say Christian grace in your home every day means you’re a super Jew?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the right to raise your kids as you want, but technically you are actually not Jewish and neither are your children unless you converted when you married your husband.
In Judaism, the religion is passed from mother to children. So maybe this is where you mom is coming from as she sees (correctly) her grand kids as Christians.

No flame please, I am just pointing out the law.

Now if you want to raise your kids Jewish, I am sure you are aware of the prayer on "washing of hands" followed by the prayer on bread, both are said before eating a meal. And pretty much ANY food has to have a prayer BEFORE eating (haEtz, Hadama, ChaAhKol, ...). In fact, in Judaism, you actually recognize God in pretty much everything. The largest difference between Christianity and Judaism (without wanting to go into theological discussions) is that the God of Israel is unique (no man is or can become God -- nothing with trinity and virgin birth) AND the God of Israel is not into "turning your other cheek" stuff. That is very Christian.
But praying God to have given us what we eat, is not Christian per-se.

My mom absolutely does not consider her Christian. I can assure you of that.

The maternal line thing is only still in play in Orthodox congregations and some very strict Conservative ones. DH’s family is full of rabbis and strict Jews and they have said it’s an outdated thing that really very few non-Orthodox Jews take seriously anymore.

Citing some “law” that has no relevance in the 21st century is honestly just weird. Moreover you are in the minority (assuming you are a Conservative Jew):

The Ratner Center for the Study of Conservative Judaism conducted a survey of 1,617 members of 27 Conservative congregations in the U.S. and Canada in 1995.[116] 69% of respondents to the Ratner Center survey agreed that they would regard personally as a Jew anyone who was raised Jewish—even if their mother was Gentile and their father was Jewish.

Oh, 69%? Then it’s settled then! (That was sarcasm.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP needs to show a little more respect to her mother

By adhering to her wishes regarding my kid’s religious education? Why? How is it her business? She’s not my religion.

OP is overcompensating because by dint of her Christian mother she’s not even considered Jewish by some Jews. So she’s being super Jew on this minor issue.

I can assure you I’m really not. My conservative Jewish husband and his family consider me Jewish, as does our shul. I’m really not concerned about my Jewishness.

Riiiiiiiiiight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the right to raise your kids as you want, but technically you are actually not Jewish and neither are your children unless you converted when you married your husband.
In Judaism, the religion is passed from mother to children. So maybe this is where you mom is coming from as she sees (correctly) her grand kids as Christians.

No flame please, I am just pointing out the law.

Now if you want to raise your kids Jewish, I am sure you are aware of the prayer on "washing of hands" followed by the prayer on bread, both are said before eating a meal. And pretty much ANY food has to have a prayer BEFORE eating (haEtz, Hadama, ChaAhKol, ...). In fact, in Judaism, you actually recognize God in pretty much everything. The largest difference between Christianity and Judaism (without wanting to go into theological discussions) is that the God of Israel is unique (no man is or can become God -- nothing with trinity and virgin birth) AND the God of Israel is not into "turning your other cheek" stuff. That is very Christian.
But praying God to have given us what we eat, is not Christian per-se.

My mom absolutely does not consider her Christian. I can assure you of that.

The maternal line thing is only still in play in Orthodox congregations and some very strict Conservative ones. DH’s family is full of rabbis and strict Jews and they have said it’s an outdated thing that really very few non-Orthodox Jews take seriously anymore.

Citing some “law” that has no relevance in the 21st century is honestly just weird. Moreover you are in the minority (assuming you are a Conservative Jew):

The Ratner Center for the Study of Conservative Judaism conducted a survey of 1,617 members of 27 Conservative congregations in the U.S. and Canada in 1995.[116] 69% of respondents to the Ratner Center survey agreed that they would regard personally as a Jew anyone who was raised Jewish—even if their mother was Gentile and their father was Jewish.

Oh, 69%? Then it’s settled then! (That was sarcasm.)

? What are you trying to accomplish here? Denigrating someone’s identity? Is that your goal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP needs to show a little more respect to her mother

By adhering to her wishes regarding my kid’s religious education? Why? How is it her business? She’s not my religion.

OP is overcompensating because by dint of her Christian mother she’s not even considered Jewish by some Jews. So she’s being super Jew on this minor issue.

I can assure you I’m really not. My conservative Jewish husband and his family consider me Jewish, as does our shul. I’m really not concerned about my Jewishness.

Riiiiiiiiiight.

Why do you feel the need to be so nasty to someone you don’t even know?