Catholic mom wants us to essentially say grace as part of our Jewish kid’s education ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is OP going to come back in the new year to tell us what her plan is?

I’ve already told you many, many times. I am continuing to tell her we’re not saying grace when she’s not here. My plan is to continue to do that until she stops bringing it up.

I think I’ve said this at least a dozen times.

I'm one of the pps. That's all you can do. Best case is she drops it. Worst and more realistic is that she keeps badgering you about it. Assume she will not let it go and find a stock phrase to respond and move the conversation on quickly.

[Anonymous]

Happy New year
Let us all love our mothers !!

[Anonymous]

How is what your mom is doing any different than this? I think you are more put off by her Catholicism than the actual act?

The berakhah before eating brings us another awareness, too. The act of eating is meant to be one of pleasure and enjoyment. We should savor our food rather than just devour it.

The Baal Shem Tov (the 18th-century founder of Hasidism) taught: “When you eat and take pleasure in the taste and sweetness of the food, bear in mind that it is God who has placed into the food its taste and sweetness. You will, then, truly serve God by your eating.” On this level, we should make ourselves aware of the pleasurable nature of eating.

We should likewise be aware of food as a necessary source of health and sustenance. Without food we could not live–this is a fact that we may easily take for granted. The Rebbe of Mikolayeve taught: “Eat and drink because you are commanded to safeguard your health, as it is said, ‘For your own sake, therefore be most careful’ (Deuteronomy 4:15). Such eating is a pious deed. But to eat merely to satisfy a craving is a form of transgression” (Louis Newman, Hasidic Anthology, p. 86).

This also brings to awareness the fact that there are many people in this world who cannot take their next meal for granted. They suffer not a lack of awareness, only a lack of food. In the past, the tradition encouraged us to share our meals with the poor. In an immediate sense, this is not often practical today. We could, however, accept the suggestion of [Rabbi Meir Simha Ha-Kohen of Dvinsk (1843-1926)]: “In a place where poor people are not to be found, what can a person do…? It is possible to say that you should estimate what the cost of the meal for a poor person would have been, and put that amount aside for charity before you eat” (Sha’ar Ha-kedushah 15:64).

All in all, the spiritual awareness of the meaning of food that is contained in the berakhah enables us nourish our souls as we nourish our bodies.

“The essential advice on how to deal with food lust is that when you eat you should be aware of what you are doing; then it ceases to be just an animal action. The lust for food is intact if you allow your mind and all your senses to be immersed in eating until you forget what you are doing. Then eating is like an animal’s action.” (Emunat Tzadikim, p. 78)

Eating is intended to be a purposeful act. While animals eat out of instinct, we eat out of awareness of all that the act of eating entails. We are to remember all that brought this food to the plate.

The Jerusalem Talmud (Hallah 1) says: “Before you eat your piece of bread, remember that 10 mitzvot [commandments] have been performed in preparing it for your consumption: it was not sown on Shabbat or the Sabbatical year; it was not plowed then either; the ox’s mouth was not tied while he worked in the field; the grower has not gathered the left-over and forgotten sheaves [but has instead left them for the poor]; he has not reaped the corners of his fields [for the same reason]; he has given the tithes to the priest and Levite; he has given the second tithe and the tithe to the poor; and his wife separated a piece of dough for the priest.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is what your mom is doing any different than this? I think you are more put off by her Catholicism than the actual act?

The berakhah before eating brings us another awareness, too. The act of eating is meant to be one of pleasure and enjoyment. We should savor our food rather than just devour it.

The Baal Shem Tov (the 18th-century founder of Hasidism) taught: “When you eat and take pleasure in the taste and sweetness of the food, bear in mind that it is God who has placed into the food its taste and sweetness. You will, then, truly serve God by your eating.” On this level, we should make ourselves aware of the pleasurable nature of eating.

We should likewise be aware of food as a necessary source of health and sustenance. Without food we could not live–this is a fact that we may easily take for granted. The Rebbe of Mikolayeve taught: “Eat and drink because you are commanded to safeguard your health, as it is said, ‘For your own sake, therefore be most careful’ (Deuteronomy 4:15). Such eating is a pious deed. But to eat merely to satisfy a craving is a form of transgression” (Louis Newman, Hasidic Anthology, p. 86).

This also brings to awareness the fact that there are many people in this world who cannot take their next meal for granted. They suffer not a lack of awareness, only a lack of food. In the past, the tradition encouraged us to share our meals with the poor. In an immediate sense, this is not often practical today. We could, however, accept the suggestion of [Rabbi Meir Simha Ha-Kohen of Dvinsk (1843-1926)]: “In a place where poor people are not to be found, what can a person do…? It is possible to say that you should estimate what the cost of the meal for a poor person would have been, and put that amount aside for charity before you eat” (Sha’ar Ha-kedushah 15:64).

All in all, the spiritual awareness of the meaning of food that is contained in the berakhah enables us nourish our souls as we nourish our bodies.

“The essential advice on how to deal with food lust is that when you eat you should be aware of what you are doing; then it ceases to be just an animal action. The lust for food is intact if you allow your mind and all your senses to be immersed in eating until you forget what you are doing. Then eating is like an animal’s action.” (Emunat Tzadikim, p. 78)

Eating is intended to be a purposeful act. While animals eat out of instinct, we eat out of awareness of all that the act of eating entails. We are to remember all that brought this food to the plate.

The Jerusalem Talmud (Hallah 1) says: “Before you eat your piece of bread, remember that 10 mitzvot [commandments] have been performed in preparing it for your consumption: it was not sown on Shabbat or the Sabbatical year; it was not plowed then either; the ox’s mouth was not tied while he worked in the field; the grower has not gathered the left-over and forgotten sheaves [but has instead left them for the poor]; he has not reaped the corners of his fields [for the same reason]; he has given the tithes to the priest and Levite; he has given the second tithe and the tithe to the poor; and his wife separated a piece of dough for the priest.”

What you’re citing isn’t relevant to the actual prayers that are said.

[Anonymous]

To the PP (prob OP herself who is obsessively monitoring the thread), isn’t OP a Reform Jew? Why are you dismissing all those passages as not relevant? I know tons of Reform Jews who bend the “law.” A lot of them have Christmas trees for goodness sake.

[Anonymous]

How is this thread 23 pages long?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is this thread 23 pages long?

Now THAT's a good question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PP (prob OP herself who is obsessively monitoring the thread), isn’t OP a Reform Jew? Why are you dismissing all those passages as not relevant? I know tons of Reform Jews who bend the “law.” A lot of them have Christmas trees for goodness sake.

Perhaps she wants to use religion to be mean to her mother
That will not work. The ten commandments forbid it.
You need to honor your mother and father. Not obsess what kind of prayers they say before eating
It is still your mother. The purpose of the law is not to find ways to disrespect parents. You are interpreting it wrong if you do that

[Anonymous]

Why not just modify what's being said to fit your faith? Simple fix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP (prob OP herself who is obsessively monitoring the thread), isn’t OP a Reform Jew? Why are you dismissing all those passages as not relevant? I know tons of Reform Jews who bend the “law.” A lot of them have Christmas trees for goodness sake.

Perhaps she wants to use religion to be mean to her mother
That will not work. The ten commandments forbid it.
You need to honor your mother and father. Not obsess what kind of prayers they say before eating
It is still your mother. The purpose of the law is not to find ways to disrespect parents. You are interpreting it wrong if you do that

I was raised Reform. My husband and I are raising our daughter in a Conservative shul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not just modify what's being said to fit your faith? Simple fix.

My mom's specific request is something in English that says certain things that do not fit with Judaism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mom’s grace isn’t very catholic. She is imposing her own “spirituality” on you.

If she is searching and mixed up, but not seeking resources outside her own head, I feel bad for her. But I can see why she is frikkin’ annoying. Plus, she is showing disrespect for the OPs childhood.

Nothing we can say to OP will matter, since all OP wants is for her to stop talking.

Has the advice been anything but getting her to shut up?

She has gotten very little advice on how to get her mom to back off. (The rabbi may have some, or some good resources). Most of us have just said “tell your mom “no”, which she already knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PP (prob OP herself who is obsessively monitoring the thread), isn’t OP a Reform Jew? Why are you dismissing all those passages as not relevant? I know tons of Reform Jews who bend the “law.” A lot of them have Christmas trees for goodness sake.

I am not the OP - I am a Conservative Jew. I usually forget to say the relevant brachot for specific foods when its not shabbat, yom tov or some other special meal.

But IF I am going to say a prayer before a meal, its going to be a traditional Jewish prayer. Its not going to be a kind of prayer that we simply do not say in that context.

Its not a matter of it being "forbidden" or of whether PP is Reform or Conservative or Orthodox.

There is no law that says you can't refrain from drinking coffee - but if Mormon mom said "don't drink coffee as a way to teach your kids about religion" I think most people here would support OP in pushing back. There is no law that says you can't sing Baby Shark every time you eat - ditto. There is no law saying you can't face towards Mecca before each meal.

As for Christmas trees, well duh. Thats why some of us say over and over again its not a good idea in Jewish homes. First you get a Christmas tree, then they make you say some Christian sounding grace, before you know it you're eating cranberry bagels with mayo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP (prob OP herself who is obsessively monitoring the thread), isn’t OP a Reform Jew? Why are you dismissing all those passages as not relevant? I know tons of Reform Jews who bend the “law.” A lot of them have Christmas trees for goodness sake.

I am not the OP - I am a Conservative Jew. I usually forget to say the relevant brachot for specific foods when its not shabbat, yom tov or some other special meal.

But IF I am going to say a prayer before a meal, its going to be a traditional Jewish prayer. Its not going to be a kind of prayer that we simply do not say in that context.

Its not a matter of it being "forbidden" or of whether PP is Reform or Conservative or Orthodox.

There is no law that says you can't refrain from drinking coffee - but if Mormon mom said "don't drink coffee as a way to teach your kids about religion" I think most people here would support OP in pushing back. There is no law that says you can't sing Baby Shark every time you eat - ditto. There is no law saying you can't face towards Mecca before each meal.

As for Christmas trees, well duh. Thats why some of us say over and over again its not a good idea in Jewish homes. First you get a Christmas tree, then they make you say some Christian sounding grace, before you know it you're eating cranberry bagels with mayo.

Exactly.

I think if OP's mom had requested she say a Hindu prayer before the meal, people would've been more unanimously in her court. It's because it's a quasi-Christian prayer and most people are Christian, so it's familiar to them and seems like no big deal.

[Anonymous]

"Mom -- we've been through this many times. I'm not going to say grace with my daughter.

Please stop asking. If you continue asking, I'll ignore you, change the subject, walk out the room, whatever, but I won't engage with you about this again."

Then stick to it.

If, for instance, she tells you that you're being unreasonable, ignore her, change the subject, or walk out the room, whatever.