Catholic mom wants us to essentially say grace as part of our Jewish kid’s education ...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I do have to say, OP, that I think it’s really weird that you’re making this an issue. Allow your mother to say grace when she’s there for meals, and tell her that when she’s not there you don’t say grace because it’s not your religion. It’s a simple as that. What is the problem? My suspicion is that you don’t want her to say it even when she is there, and that’s just really uncool of you. But truly religious person, as you purport yourself to be, respects and allows the free exercise of someone else’s religion. Especially if it’s your mother.

I have zero problem with her saying it. I don’t appreciate you making that assumption. My issue is she keeps pushing us to say it even when she’s not there.

This is really the dumbest thread ever. It's simple, OP. Say "no, we won't be doing that." DONE. If you can't stand up to your mom on this one tiny thing that she's not even going to be there for, then I see a lot of problems in your future. You might consider counseling if you can't say no to this request.

Yeah, I feel like OP is looking for an effective and painless way of dealing with this, but the only way to deal with it is to continue to to state her boundaries. Eventually the mother will have to accept it, but it likely won’t be a quick or non-contentious process.

OP here. Yeah I know it won’t be simple. I know some are saying it’s simple, but in this case it’s not as easy as it seems. I will keep trying, of course, but it won’t be easy.

Please explain to us why it is difficult to NOT do something in your own home when the person requesting it is NOT there?

The issue is getting her to shut up about it.

Who cares, OP? You keep saying no and eventually she'll stop. You're stringing her along, or something. There is something wrong with YOU, not your mom.

You're lucky you haven't had to deal with difficult family members. Count yourself lucky.

I've come to the conclusion that this is somehow tied to money.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Admittedly, I haven’t read the entire thread, but I don’t understand the part about praying for the sick or other individual people during grace. That is not a Catholic thing or even a generally Christian thing. Grace before meals is simply supposed to be a prayer of thanks for the food given, not a time to offer up prayers for for general petitions.

Mom is having a spiritual crisis and inflicting it on those around her. Doesn't sound like mom is doing the work she needs to do to figure out where she belongs, though.

+1 I was raised Catholic and said a traditional Catholic grace. I'm now Methodist and when my kids attended a Methodist preschool they learned a different grace and we switched to saying that. Neither one has anything to do with praying for specific people. It's a ritual of thankfulness not a free-form praying for everything (that's more of a bedtime prayers think in my experience). Certainly, some Christians do that at mealtimes but there not one way it HAS to be done.

Regardless, Grandma is out of line. The fact that she keeps pushing it makes me think OP hasn't given her a firm and repeated "no." She needs to stop engaging on it in anyway, the answer is "no", period.

I have given her many firm replies. She is an exceptionally pushy person. I will keep trying.

I hear you OP. My mother is also very pushy about some child rearing issues. After 10 times I just ignore it and change the subject or at the most say "we discussed this, I know how you feel and you know how I feel about this. It won't change". Done. It's really hard. Don't frame it as "trying" frame it as the new way of dealing with your mom about issues you disagree on. This won't be the only one. You don't have to agree but she has to grudgingly respect your choice as a parent.

What a grown up response, PP. This is ANOTHER good example for you Op.

OP here. I appreciate that this person acknowledged that they share my experience. I consider this much more helpful than those who make all of this sound so easy. Notice how this person said "It's really hard" and "I hear you."

You let this go on for 16 pages and all you wanted was validation? That's so cute. Shut up, OP. I hear you, you're a loser. It's hard, especially when you're a loser.

Wow. You are honestly an extremely mean person.

You should try to figure out why you feel the urge to call someone a loser.

[Anonymous]

Sorry I hit a nerve, OP! <3

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Have you ever asked her why this is so important to her or have you just worked yourself into knots with incomplete information? Knowing her intent will help you respond appropriately. It feels as if you are just arguing with your mom like a 15 year old girl.

Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?

It’s already been established that it’s not Jewish. Please accept it.

Just trying to learn. Many of the people I know (Muslim, Christian, Buddhist) do things that aren't officially sanctioned by the rules of their faith, I didn't know if Judaism was more specifically prescriptive. Or are we not allowed to ask questions?

Your comment was fairly judgmental. Please consider your tone next time.

Dude, You read a tone that wasn’t there. Not every question is an attack or an insult. I’m pretty sure that you would read anything that wasn’t wholly supportive of the OP as negative in tone. That’s on you.

"Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?"

NP. I can't quite read this in a tone that isn't a bit judgmental. "Why can't you JUST do this?" You should be aware that intent does not equal outcome. At least two people here saw your post as judgmental and dismissive of Jewish culture. Don't hide under the guise of "just trying to learn". If you are Christian, why don't you JUST consider that maybe Jesus isn't the son of God. See how easy that is?

Ok you inserted all kinds of assumptions that aren’t there and I guess you’d rather tell me what I meant when I typed that than answer the questions. Also not Christian so you were wrong about that too!

I said IF you are Christian, you freaking illiterate.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Admittedly, I haven’t read the entire thread, but I don’t understand the part about praying for the sick or other individual people during grace. That is not a Catholic thing or even a generally Christian thing. Grace before meals is simply supposed to be a prayer of thanks for the food given, not a time to offer up prayers for for general petitions.

Mom is having a spiritual crisis and inflicting it on those around her. Doesn't sound like mom is doing the work she needs to do to figure out where she belongs, though.

+1 I was raised Catholic and said a traditional Catholic grace. I'm now Methodist and when my kids attended a Methodist preschool they learned a different grace and we switched to saying that. Neither one has anything to do with praying for specific people. It's a ritual of thankfulness not a free-form praying for everything (that's more of a bedtime prayers think in my experience). Certainly, some Christians do that at mealtimes but there not one way it HAS to be done.

Regardless, Grandma is out of line. The fact that she keeps pushing it makes me think OP hasn't given her a firm and repeated "no." She needs to stop engaging on it in anyway, the answer is "no", period.

I have given her many firm replies. She is an exceptionally pushy person. I will keep trying.

I hear you OP. My mother is also very pushy about some child rearing issues. After 10 times I just ignore it and change the subject or at the most say "we discussed this, I know how you feel and you know how I feel about this. It won't change". Done. It's really hard. Don't frame it as "trying" frame it as the new way of dealing with your mom about issues you disagree on. This won't be the only one. You don't have to agree but she has to grudgingly respect your choice as a parent.

What a grown up response, PP. This is ANOTHER good example for you Op.

OP here. I appreciate that this person acknowledged that they share my experience. I consider this much more helpful than those who make all of this sound so easy. Notice how this person said "It's really hard" and "I hear you."

You let this go on for 16 pages and all you wanted was validation? That's so cute. Shut up, OP. I hear you, you're a loser. It's hard, especially when you're a loser.

Nah. OP just loves the attention, and this thread is giving her that in spades, so she’s a winner.

[Anonymous]

So a little prayer before a meal is indoctrination? Is that what you believe?

-former Catholic, not religious - But how is this damaging?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So a little prayer before a meal is indoctrination? Is that what you believe?

-former Catholic, not religious - But how is this damaging?

it's been long established that this is not a Jewish thing. this is about more than her mom saying it when she's there. the request is to say what amounts to a Christian grace every day.

you say you aren't religious, but as a former Catholic, what would you say to a Muslim who requested that you say Muslim prayers in your home every day? would you want to do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a little prayer before a meal is indoctrination? Is that what you believe?

-former Catholic, not religious - But how is this damaging?

it's been long established that this is not a Jewish thing. this is about more than her mom saying it when she's there. the request is to say what amounts to a Christian grace every day.

you say you aren't religious, but as a former Catholic, what would you say to a Muslim who requested that you say Muslim prayers in your home every day? would you want to do that?

Dp. It isn’t everyday in OP’s case.

As others have said, OP is just seeking validation. She’s probably no longer being validated by mom bc she’s realized mom probably only wanted OP exposed to religion/Judaism and never expected that she’d actually embrace it. My family challenges are significant, so yes, OP, I have had to deal with them — MANY, MANY of them. This prayer stuff is small potatoes. Like another poster said, there must be something else going on. The money angle is interesting. You can’t be this obtuse. Sorry, if that’s too mean. You must’ve been very sheltered as a child and can’t respond as an adult now. Teach your child to be better.

[Anonymous]

Op: Set boundaries with your mother. Print out some transliterated copies of the pre and ipost meal brachot for her when she comes over to say with your kids. Your house, your rules. As a religious matter, though, no, there is no problem with creating new specific prayers to G-d in Hebrew (or any other language), including something approximating a general grace before a meal. It just feels churchy to me as a Hebrew speaker, but there is no rabbinic decree against talking to G-d in “your own words.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a little prayer before a meal is indoctrination? Is that what you believe?

-former Catholic, not religious - But how is this damaging?

it's been long established that this is not a Jewish thing. this is about more than her mom saying it when she's there. the request is to say what amounts to a Christian grace every day.

you say you aren't religious, but as a former Catholic, what would you say to a Muslim who requested that you say Muslim prayers in your home every day? would you want to do that?

Dp. It isn’t everyday in OP’s case.

As others have said, OP is just seeking validation. She’s probably no longer being validated by mom bc she’s realized mom probably only wanted OP exposed to religion/Judaism and never expected that she’d actually embrace it. My family challenges are significant, so yes, OP, I have had to deal with them — MANY, MANY of them. This prayer stuff is small potatoes. Like another poster said, there must be something else going on. The money angle is interesting. You can’t be this obtuse. Sorry, if that’s too mean. You must’ve been very sheltered as a child and can’t respond as an adult now. Teach your child to be better.

Yes it is. have you been paying attention?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Have you ever asked her why this is so important to her or have you just worked yourself into knots with incomplete information? Knowing her intent will help you respond appropriately. It feels as if you are just arguing with your mom like a 15 year old girl.

Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?

It’s already been established that it’s not Jewish. Please accept it.

Just trying to learn. Many of the people I know (Muslim, Christian, Buddhist) do things that aren't officially sanctioned by the rules of their faith, I didn't know if Judaism was more specifically prescriptive. Or are we not allowed to ask questions?

Your comment was fairly judgmental. Please consider your tone next time.

Dude, You read a tone that wasn’t there. Not every question is an attack or an insult. I’m pretty sure that you would read anything that wasn’t wholly supportive of the OP as negative in tone. That’s on you.

"Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?"

NP. I can't quite read this in a tone that isn't a bit judgmental. "Why can't you JUST do this?" You should be aware that intent does not equal outcome. At least two people here saw your post as judgmental and dismissive of Jewish culture. Don't hide under the guise of "just trying to learn". If you are Christian, why don't you JUST consider that maybe Jesus isn't the son of God. See how easy that is?

Ok you inserted all kinds of assumptions that aren’t there and I guess you’d rather tell me what I meant when I typed that than answer the questions. Also not Christian so you were wrong about that too!

I said IF you are Christian, you freaking illiterate.

Where's all the anger coming from? You are scary. You are the one who said that I said "Why can't you just...?" and is incapable of imagining any tone but the one you presuppose. I'll ask again. Are Jews not allowed to deviate at all? Thus, is the OP upset because it is truly against jewish law or just doesn't want to? Both are legit but responses would vary depending. Simple question my friend. Happy New Year.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admittedly, I haven’t read the entire thread, but I don’t understand the part about praying for the sick or other individual people during grace. That is not a Catholic thing or even a generally Christian thing. Grace before meals is simply supposed to be a prayer of thanks for the food given, not a time to offer up prayers for for general petitions.

Mom is having a spiritual crisis and inflicting it on those around her. Doesn't sound like mom is doing the work she needs to do to figure out where she belongs, though.

+1 I was raised Catholic and said a traditional Catholic grace. I'm now Methodist and when my kids attended a Methodist preschool they learned a different grace and we switched to saying that. Neither one has anything to do with praying for specific people. It's a ritual of thankfulness not a free-form praying for everything (that's more of a bedtime prayers think in my experience). Certainly, some Christians do that at mealtimes but there not one way it HAS to be done.

Regardless, Grandma is out of line. The fact that she keeps pushing it makes me think OP hasn't given her a firm and repeated "no." She needs to stop engaging on it in anyway, the answer is "no", period.

I have given her many firm replies. She is an exceptionally pushy person. I will keep trying.

I hear you OP. My mother is also very pushy about some child rearing issues. After 10 times I just ignore it and change the subject or at the most say "we discussed this, I know how you feel and you know how I feel about this. It won't change". Done. It's really hard. Don't frame it as "trying" frame it as the new way of dealing with your mom about issues you disagree on. This won't be the only one. You don't have to agree but she has to grudgingly respect your choice as a parent.

What a grown up response, PP. This is ANOTHER good example for you Op.

OP here. I appreciate that this person acknowledged that they share my experience. I consider this much more helpful than those who make all of this sound so easy. Notice how this person said "It's really hard" and "I hear you."

You let this go on for 16 pages and all you wanted was validation? That's so cute. Shut up, OP. I hear you, you're a loser. It's hard, especially when you're a loser.

Nah. OP just loves the attention, and this thread is giving her that in spades, so she’s a winner.

DP here

This is why I don't post personal stuff on here. This is an anon forum, filled with really nasty people, who want to spend their time being cruel. OP is just defending herself.

To OP - please learn what this place is. Seek help somewhere else.

The person trolling OP - You need help. I hope you find it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever asked her why this is so important to her or have you just worked yourself into knots with incomplete information? Knowing her intent will help you respond appropriately. It feels as if you are just arguing with your mom like a 15 year old girl.

Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?

It’s already been established that it’s not Jewish. Please accept it.

Just trying to learn. Many of the people I know (Muslim, Christian, Buddhist) do things that aren't officially sanctioned by the rules of their faith, I didn't know if Judaism was more specifically prescriptive. Or are we not allowed to ask questions?

Your comment was fairly judgmental. Please consider your tone next time.

Dude, You read a tone that wasn’t there. Not every question is an attack or an insult. I’m pretty sure that you would read anything that wasn’t wholly supportive of the OP as negative in tone. That’s on you.

"Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?"

NP. I can't quite read this in a tone that isn't a bit judgmental. "Why can't you JUST do this?" You should be aware that intent does not equal outcome. At least two people here saw your post as judgmental and dismissive of Jewish culture. Don't hide under the guise of "just trying to learn". If you are Christian, why don't you JUST consider that maybe Jesus isn't the son of God. See how easy that is?

Ok you inserted all kinds of assumptions that aren’t there and I guess you’d rather tell me what I meant when I typed that than answer the questions. Also not Christian so you were wrong about that too!

I said IF you are Christian, you freaking illiterate.

Where's all the anger coming from? You are scary. You are the one who said that I said "Why can't you just...?" and is incapable of imagining any tone but the one you presuppose. I'll ask again. Are Jews not allowed to deviate at all? Thus, is the OP upset because it is truly against jewish law or just doesn't want to? Both are legit but responses would vary depending. Simple question my friend. Happy New Year.

DP here

Why do you care? Whats it to you? Why go on and on probing a strangers motivations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So a little prayer before a meal is indoctrination? Is that what you believe?

-former Catholic, not religious - But how is this damaging?

A bracha over particular foods is what religious Jews (why would a secular person want any prayer?) do.

A general prayer grace feels very Christian to me, and not appropriate for teaching a Jewish child.

I was recently at a friends house for dinner - he said a Christian grace like this, and even mentioned Jesus. I was fine with that. It was HIS house. At my house, if we say a prayer before eating its a traditional jewish blessing on the particular food. Its what we do. At OUR house.

OPs mom has no right to tell her what to do at her house. You have less right.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever asked her why this is so important to her or have you just worked yourself into knots with incomplete information? Knowing her intent will help you respond appropriately. It feels as if you are just arguing with your mom like a 15 year old girl.

Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?

It’s already been established that it’s not Jewish. Please accept it.

Just trying to learn. Many of the people I know (Muslim, Christian, Buddhist) do things that aren't officially sanctioned by the rules of their faith, I didn't know if Judaism was more specifically prescriptive. Or are we not allowed to ask questions?

Your comment was fairly judgmental. Please consider your tone next time.

Dude, You read a tone that wasn’t there. Not every question is an attack or an insult. I’m pretty sure that you would read anything that wasn’t wholly supportive of the OP as negative in tone. That’s on you.

"Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?"

NP. I can't quite read this in a tone that isn't a bit judgmental. "Why can't you JUST do this?" You should be aware that intent does not equal outcome. At least two people here saw your post as judgmental and dismissive of Jewish culture. Don't hide under the guise of "just trying to learn". If you are Christian, why don't you JUST consider that maybe Jesus isn't the son of God. See how easy that is?

Ok you inserted all kinds of assumptions that aren’t there and I guess you’d rather tell me what I meant when I typed that than answer the questions. Also not Christian so you were wrong about that too!

I said IF you are Christian, you freaking illiterate.

Where's all the anger coming from? You are scary. You are the one who said that I said "Why can't you just...?" and is incapable of imagining any tone but the one you presuppose. I'll ask again. Are Jews not allowed to deviate at all? Thus, is the OP upset because it is truly against jewish law or just doesn't want to? Both are legit but responses would vary depending. Simple question my friend. Happy New Year.

DP here

Why do you care? Whats it to you? Why go on and on probing a strangers motivations?

Well the OP came here looking for opinions and advice so that's kind of what's done here. Let me make this easy for you. If someone posted that their mother was giving the kid candy and they didn't like that I would say well if the kid is diabetic that is a hard no but if not I'd say to lighten up. So in this case if it is forbidden I'd say "Tell your mom it is a hard no and why" if it is just a matter of preference I might suggest relaxing a bit in the interest of family harmony. Being an adult doesn't mean you get to do what you want when you want, being a true adult means considering how other people feel and making reasonable accommodations sometimes for the benefit of someone else.