Catholic mom wants us to essentially say grace as part of our Jewish kid’s education ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, how were you raised? Did your mom insist you say grace? If not, then why not remind her of that. If yes -- well, I got nothin'.

I think saying grace is a nice idea, but like you, I find it very Christian so it doesn't come naturally to me. When i lived in Japan I got into the traditional pre-meal saying there: itadakimasu, sort of "let us partake" or "let us enjoy." totally non-religious, but a nice pause to appreciate the food you're about to eat.

That doesn't help you though. The bottom line is, it's your household and your child and you make the decisions. If you want to find some Hebrew prayer you're comfortable with, even if it's just the brachah you say when you wash your hands before meal, go for it. But it sounds like you don't feel the need to say anything before you eat and that's your choice. Tell your mother you don't say grace, you don't want to say grace, and it's not up for discussion. However, also teach your kids that when they are with your mother or anyone else who says grace, the polite thing to do is to bow your head and be silent. If the grace is not outright religious maybe they can even say "amen." Maybe they can't. But they can be polite and respectful.

- a Jew who attended 12 years at an Episcopal day school

Thanks for this. Of course I’ll teach her to be respectful when my mom says it. My grandma says the traditional Catholic grace and I always just sit quietly when she says it.

My mom used to say this sort of grace when we were kids but didn’t make us say anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's good for your kids to feel comfortable with saying grace. They'll encounter it a lot in other settings.

Like where? In nearly 40 years of life I have very rarely encountered anyone who regularly says grace at mealtimes. I think one of my college roommates did. Pretty much no one else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's good for your kids to feel comfortable with saying grace. They'll encounter it a lot in other settings.

Like where? In nearly 40 years of life I have very rarely encountered anyone who regularly says grace at mealtimes. I think one of my college roommates did. Pretty much no one else.

I wonder if any of these people getting mad at OP actually say the real Catholic grace (Blessed our lord and these thy gifts which we are about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our lord).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how were you raised? Did your mom insist you say grace? If not, then why not remind her of that. If yes -- well, I got nothin'.

I think saying grace is a nice idea, but like you, I find it very Christian so it doesn't come naturally to me. When i lived in Japan I got into the traditional pre-meal saying there: itadakimasu, sort of "let us partake" or "let us enjoy." totally non-religious, but a nice pause to appreciate the food you're about to eat.

That doesn't help you though. The bottom line is, it's your household and your child and you make the decisions. If you want to find some Hebrew prayer you're comfortable with, even if it's just the brachah you say when you wash your hands before meal, go for it. But it sounds like you don't feel the need to say anything before you eat and that's your choice. Tell your mother you don't say grace, you don't want to say grace, and it's not up for discussion. However, also teach your kids that when they are with your mother or anyone else who says grace, the polite thing to do is to bow your head and be silent. If the grace is not outright religious maybe they can even say "amen." Maybe they can't. But they can be polite and respectful.

- a Jew who attended 12 years at an Episcopal day school

Thanks for this. Of course I’ll teach her to be respectful when my mom says it. My grandma says the traditional Catholic grace and I always just sit quietly when she says it.

My mom used to say this sort of grace when we were kids but didn’t make us say anything.

I figured. So tell her you've got the religious education handled and you don't want to say grace and that's that. (And depending on how old your child is, if you haven't enrolled him/her in Hebrew school yet, consider it. My 6 year old started this year in the kindergarten Sunday class -- and surprisingly likes it -- and he has learned so much in just a couple of months. He was singing the Hannukah blessings with us, with about 70% accuracy. I was astounded.)

I don't know how old your child is but this might be just one of those things that grandparents randomly fixate on. With my mom it's vaccines -- you'd think I was a crazy anti-vaxxer. She's constantly asking if my kids are properly vaccinated (yes!) and have I talked to the pediatrian about xyz. For DH's mom, it's making sure my kids watch enough TV to know all possible cultural references. I admit this is where we butt heads as I grew up fine largely without TV and i disapprove of many of the shows my kids' friends watch. So we've had a lot of conversations in which we talk past each other regarding the value of TV. The bottom line is they're my kids and DH and I decide what they watch in our house. Sounds like you need to have a similar conversation about saying grace and any other religious stuff. (Christmas tree? Easter? etc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how were you raised? Did your mom insist you say grace? If not, then why not remind her of that. If yes -- well, I got nothin'.

I think saying grace is a nice idea, but like you, I find it very Christian so it doesn't come naturally to me. When i lived in Japan I got into the traditional pre-meal saying there: itadakimasu, sort of "let us partake" or "let us enjoy." totally non-religious, but a nice pause to appreciate the food you're about to eat.

That doesn't help you though. The bottom line is, it's your household and your child and you make the decisions. If you want to find some Hebrew prayer you're comfortable with, even if it's just the brachah you say when you wash your hands before meal, go for it. But it sounds like you don't feel the need to say anything before you eat and that's your choice. Tell your mother you don't say grace, you don't want to say grace, and it's not up for discussion. However, also teach your kids that when they are with your mother or anyone else who says grace, the polite thing to do is to bow your head and be silent. If the grace is not outright religious maybe they can even say "amen." Maybe they can't. But they can be polite and respectful.

- a Jew who attended 12 years at an Episcopal day school

Thanks for this. Of course I’ll teach her to be respectful when my mom says it. My grandma says the traditional Catholic grace and I always just sit quietly when she says it.

My mom used to say this sort of grace when we were kids but didn’t make us say anything.

I figured. So tell her you've got the religious education handled and you don't want to say grace and that's that. (And depending on how old your child is, if you haven't enrolled him/her in Hebrew school yet, consider it. My 6 year old started this year in the kindergarten Sunday class -- and surprisingly likes it -- and he has learned so much in just a couple of months. He was singing the Hannukah blessings with us, with about 70% accuracy. I was astounded.)

I don't know how old your child is but this might be just one of those things that grandparents randomly fixate on. With my mom it's vaccines -- you'd think I was a crazy anti-vaxxer. She's constantly asking if my kids are properly vaccinated (yes!) and have I talked to the pediatrian about xyz. For DH's mom, it's making sure my kids watch enough TV to know all possible cultural references. I admit this is where we butt heads as I grew up fine largely without TV and i disapprove of many of the shows my kids' friends watch. So we've had a lot of conversations in which we talk past each other regarding the value of TV. The bottom line is they're my kids and DH and I decide what they watch in our house. Sounds like you need to have a similar conversation about saying grace and any other religious stuff. (Christmas tree? Easter? etc)

She’ll start Hebrew school next year. my mom doesn’t push anything else Christian. She honestly just seems to have no sense that this is basically a Christian thing. She also suggested we have DD pray at bedtime (something she never had us do as kids).

Funnily enough, my Jewish dad doesn’t give 2 craps if we ever set foot in a synagogue again.

My mom seems to have just a lot of passion about DD being religious without the requisite knowledge to know how to help.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice mom.. then ignore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. You’re forcing your own religion and beliefs into your child. Your mother is doing the same thing. Either you see it as abusive (which many of us do) or you don’t see it as remotely abusive to push your religious views into others. You can’t have it both ways depending on which one is more convenient for you at the time.

exactly!

You seem to just hate all religions.

I don't "hate all religions". Adults can believe whatever they want. I don't respect people who believe random strange things that someone tells them to believe, but it's their choice to do it.

I do hate people who call children religious or try to force children into believing their beliefs. Kids get killed because their parents put some religious label on them - something the kids did not choose and that does not define them in any way.. It amazes me that those people then think they're on some moral high ground. I find it really appalling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how were you raised? Did your mom insist you say grace? If not, then why not remind her of that. If yes -- well, I got nothin'.

I think saying grace is a nice idea, but like you, I find it very Christian so it doesn't come naturally to me. When i lived in Japan I got into the traditional pre-meal saying there: itadakimasu, sort of "let us partake" or "let us enjoy." totally non-religious, but a nice pause to appreciate the food you're about to eat.

That doesn't help you though. The bottom line is, it's your household and your child and you make the decisions. If you want to find some Hebrew prayer you're comfortable with, even if it's just the brachah you say when you wash your hands before meal, go for it. But it sounds like you don't feel the need to say anything before you eat and that's your choice. Tell your mother you don't say grace, you don't want to say grace, and it's not up for discussion. However, also teach your kids that when they are with your mother or anyone else who says grace, the polite thing to do is to bow your head and be silent. If the grace is not outright religious maybe they can even say "amen." Maybe they can't. But they can be polite and respectful.

- a Jew who attended 12 years at an Episcopal day school

Thanks for this. Of course I’ll teach her to be respectful when my mom says it. My grandma says the traditional Catholic grace and I always just sit quietly when she says it.

My mom used to say this sort of grace when we were kids but didn’t make us say anything.

I figured. So tell her you've got the religious education handled and you don't want to say grace and that's that. (And depending on how old your child is, if you haven't enrolled him/her in Hebrew school yet, consider it. My 6 year old started this year in the kindergarten Sunday class -- and surprisingly likes it -- and he has learned so much in just a couple of months. He was singing the Hannukah blessings with us, with about 70% accuracy. I was astounded.)

I don't know how old your child is but this might be just one of those things that grandparents randomly fixate on. With my mom it's vaccines -- you'd think I was a crazy anti-vaxxer. She's constantly asking if my kids are properly vaccinated (yes!) and have I talked to the pediatrian about xyz. For DH's mom, it's making sure my kids watch enough TV to know all possible cultural references. I admit this is where we butt heads as I grew up fine largely without TV and i disapprove of many of the shows my kids' friends watch. So we've had a lot of conversations in which we talk past each other regarding the value of TV. The bottom line is they're my kids and DH and I decide what they watch in our house. Sounds like you need to have a similar conversation about saying grace and any other religious stuff. (Christmas tree? Easter? etc)

She’ll start Hebrew school next year. my mom doesn’t push anything else Christian. She honestly just seems to have no sense that this is basically a Christian thing. She also suggested we have DD pray at bedtime (something she never had us do as kids).

Funnily enough, my Jewish dad doesn’t give 2 craps if we ever set foot in a synagogue again.

My mom seems to have just a lot of passion about DD being religious without the requisite knowledge to know how to help.

I have learned, when any of my parents, inlaws, or grandparents make suggestions about how to raise kids, to nod and smile and say "I'll think about it." And then do whatever i please. Of course I do think about it but a lot of things are a nonstarter. Grace and bedtime prayer would be nonstarters for me too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. You’re forcing your own religion and beliefs into your child. Your mother is doing the same thing. Either you see it as abusive (which many of us do) or you don’t see it as remotely abusive to push your religious views into others. You can’t have it both ways depending on which one is more convenient for you at the time.

exactly!

You seem to just hate all religions.

I don't "hate all religions". Adults can believe whatever they want. I don't respect people who believe random strange things that someone tells them to believe, but it's their choice to do it.

I do hate people who call children religious or try to force children into believing their beliefs. Kids get killed because their parents put some religious label on them - something the kids did not choose and that does not define them in any way.. It amazes me that those people then think they're on some moral high ground. I find it really appalling.

So you think parents shouldn’t expose their kids to any religion? You seem to have a lot of baggage. Judaism isn’t what you think. No one is forcing anything down my kid’s throat. Have you ever been to a conservative or reform synagogue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. You’re forcing your own religion and beliefs into your child. Your mother is doing the same thing. Either you see it as abusive (which many of us do) or you don’t see it as remotely abusive to push your religious views into others. You can’t have it both ways depending on which one is more convenient for you at the time.

exactly!

You seem to just hate all religions.

I don't "hate all religions". Adults can believe whatever they want. I don't respect people who believe random strange things that someone tells them to believe, but it's their choice to do it.

I do hate people who call children religious or try to force children into believing their beliefs. Kids get killed because their parents put some religious label on them - something the kids did not choose and that does not define them in any way.. It amazes me that those people then think they're on some moral high ground. I find it really appalling.

Do you believe in transmitting any kind of cultural values at all or do you think kids should be reared as blank slates until they're 18 and then they will suddenly choose culture, religion, language, food, etc? For many people their religious beliefs are as or more deeply ingrained as their culture. Of course they rear their children in their beliefs. We all do it. You do it too, if you have kids. Even if you are raising them to be atheist or agnostic or to disdain religion you are still imparting a viewpoint. It's impossible to do otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP needs to show a little more respect to her mother

By adhering to her wishes regarding my kid’s religious education? Why? How is it her business? She’s not my religion.

Then tell your mom to shut the F up and leave you the F alone. Tell her she has no business talking to you about your life. Tell her she can find Christian friends for that. Don’t forget to close with a big F you, so she gets your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you say a ha’motzi before meals? Do you ever do a birkat hamazon?

Yeah but those are specific prayers for concrete food items. We have a specific way of praying for the sick and poor and it isn’t over food. DH says it’s actually somewhat blasphemous to relegate those things to mealtime or to say even food blessings in some sort of approximate English language way.

She says we need to say grace in an English way that DD can understand. If anything, we’d say a ha’amotzi, but that’s not what she keeps asking for. In fact, Jewish before meal prayers are usually said in silent except for Shabbat or holidays, which certainly doesn’t comport with her vision.

I'm Catholic, and praying for the sick during a meal is very foreign to me as well. I wouldn't be offended by it, but it's not customary. Praying for the hungry would make more sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Blessed are You, L-rd our G?d, King of the universe, Who, in His goodness, provides sustenance for the entire world with grace, with kindness, and with mercy. He gives food to all flesh, for His kindness is everlasting. Through His great goodness to us continuously we do not lack [food], and may we never lack food, for the sake of His great Name. For He, benevolent G?d, provides nourishment and sustenance for all, does good to all, and prepares food for all His creatures whom He has created, as it is said: You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing. Blessed are You, L-rd, Who provides food for all.


This is pretty much what your mother is suggesting. I prefer it in the Hebrew, but you can say it in English.

.
This is said AFTER, not BEFORE, which you know. Don’t be a smarty pants.

[Anonymous]

It's your house, it's your kid. She got to raise you how she wanted. You get to raise your kid how you want. Tell her that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's your house, it's your kid. She got to raise you how she wanted. You get to raise your kid how you want. Tell her that.

It doesn’t sound like OPs mom got to raise her how she wanted. Honestly, it sounds like she was bullied into not sharing her religion with her child and regrets it. Not that this is OPs fault, but I think this type of confrontational tone will backfire.