Just accepting unequal division of labor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP’s scenario seems so common. It makes me think that there really is a reason why traditional gender roles have persisted. More women care about the details of parenting and running a household, and more men care about just doing their jobs and coming home to relax.

But in cases where the woman also chooses to work, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the man chooses to do 50% of the house/kid stuff. So it all falls to her. Women demanded the right to earn a living, but men never demanded to do laundry and mop floors - that kind of got implicitly foisted on them. It’s a tough dynamic.

(And I’m a mom who works 60 hours a week, with a husband who does almost 50% of the parenting/stuff around the house, so I’m not in the majority I’m talking about).

For most of us, work is not a "choice." We support our families with our income.

A parent who lives in a house with children s/he brought into the world is responsible for that house and that child/ren regardless of the parent's gender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you two sat down together each day and divided what needed to be done, would he be able to do it?

I'm the ADHD spouse and I make myself daily lists of what I need to do. DH and I also sit down weekly to discuss the upcoming week and who is doing what when (dinner, taking DS to practice, etc).

My lists are pretty much the only way I'm able to function. I put EVERYTHING on there, even just emptying the dishwasher.

+1

I know it’s not fair to my spouse, but I make it clear that I absolutely need them to TELL me what to do, and then I will do it. It’s not fun for me either and I am trying my best. I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me!

You…hope your spouse doesn’t resent you for knowingly treating them unfairly? That’s not ADHD that’s delusional.

There are about 100 ways you can manage executive function without expecting your spouse to do it for you.

Yes I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me for not being as capable in as many ways as they are. They certainly don’t seem to. I put forth a good faith effort every day and do what I can, but I still struggle. And I am trying all sorts of strategies to manage my mental health issues, but in the meantime my spouse actually tries to HELP ME. But, my spouse is not a petty scorekeeper like so many of the folks posting their complaints here.

I wonder if some of you would treat your kids this way. Do you think there is some magic age where all mental health issues disappear, or are suddenly no longer issues that people struggle with or suffer from, but are instead now conscious choices to be lazy and worthless? And do you know what’s ALSO exhausting? Having a mental health issue! Maybe try a little compassion?

Do you see how silly the comparison is to a child?

No. I do not. That’s because I am not aware of an age at which mental health disorders magically disappear.

I am simply saying that if you wouldn’t talk about your child with a mental health disorder this way you shouldn’t talk about your spouse with the exact same disorder this way.

You are responsible for your child’s health. Your spouse is responsible for your spouse’s health. It is gross and infantalizing to assume you should speak of an adult not managing their ADHD like they are a child.

I think you (and PP who responded ip thread) just fundamentally can’t read or are completely lacking in the ability to comprehend what you read. I am not comparing adults and children in terms of their life responsibilities or their need to be cared for. I am comparing them in terms of their mental health disorders. And I am not advocating that anyone should remain married to or manage their spouse who struggles, I am merely suggesting that they stop trying to make it out to be some sort of moral failing on their spouse’s part. It’s an illness. That doesn’t mean you have to choose to live with someone who has such an illness, but the absolute venom with which people describe their spouses is appalling. So I will repeat: if you would not TALK ABOUT your child this way, do not TALK ABOUT your spouse this way.

Again, a child’s health is my responsibility. So if that health condition isn’t managed, it is my responsibility to address that fact.

If an adult is not managing their health concern, that is their own responsibility. An adult not treating their ADHD and availing themselves of the now thousands of coaches, apps, therapies etc. who is instead making their spouse carry their weight is selfish, entitled, and yes, morally wrong.

A child whose ADHD isn’t treated isn’t being parented well.

The reason we don’t talk about them the same is that the individual responsible isn’t the same.

But what if they ARE “availing themselves” of the resources you mentioned and it either isn’t helping at all (this is a real possibility), or it isn’t helping enough or quickly enough that they are able to never burden their spouse with anything? What if the person was never diagnosed or treated as a child so they are just now figuring this out as an adult? You are saying they are moral failures?

And finally, NO ONE is responsible for the mental health condition! They are responsible for trying to deal with it as best they can, but despite what so many of you seem to think there isn’t actually a cure that will “fix” them. Even with meds and therapy this is a condition that needs to be actively managed forever, and guess what? That is ALSO exhausting.

I’m sure if you ever get a chronic illness you would never dream of asking your spouse to carry any of your weight. Take time off to drive you to chemo? Nope! Your responsibility! Oh you’re claiming you’re too tired from treatment to make dinner even though you know the kids need to be fed? WTF? Lazy! The best you can do tonight is order pizza and not even bother with vegetables?! Bad mother and bad spouse!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP’s scenario seems so common. It makes me think that there really is a reason why traditional gender roles have persisted. More women care about the details of parenting and running a household, and more men care about just doing their jobs and coming home to relax.

But in cases where the woman also chooses to work, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the man chooses to do 50% of the house/kid stuff. So it all falls to her. Women demanded the right to earn a living, but men never demanded to do laundry and mop floors - that kind of got implicitly foisted on them. It’s a tough dynamic.

(And I’m a mom who works 60 hours a week, with a husband who does almost 50% of the parenting/stuff around the house, so I’m not in the majority I’m talking about).

For most of us, work is not a "choice." We support our families with our income.

A parent who lives in a house with children s/he brought into the world is responsible for that house and that child/ren regardless of the parent's gender.

I’m the pp you quoted and I don’t disagree with you at all. I also work because I have to, and my DH pulls his weight.

I was just observing that the women’s movement to work did not include a men’s movement to do more dishes and diapers. So it isn’t surprising that they don’t want to do those things now. Saying “men should be different than they are” won’t change them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am fortunate in that my DH is a very organized and equal partner. He does at least 50 percent of everything, and is an amazing cook. He makes about 55 percent of our income.

However, our son (age 20) has ADHD, and I pray for his future wife. I know our son just cannot do so many of the things that my DH automatically does. So I hope to be able to pay for a weekly house cleaner for them, as well as helping them with a down payment on the house. I will try to support them in whatever way possible.

Forgive me if this has already been suggested, but can you hire outside help to make things any easier for you? Is there a family member who could come in and help with some things?

Or perhaps try the Serenity Prayer? (I use this a lot in my life, and find it pretty helpful.)

I'm sure others have suggested this, but keep in mind that the person with ADHD often feels pretty bad that they are not doing more. So I'm sure that it's a challenge to be sympathetic to your DH, but my guess is that he feels pretty bad. Perhaps just don't be too hard on him?

You should do more than that. You should 1) encourage him not to get married or have kids, and 2) educate any potential DILs about what they would have to deal with, so at least they are not flying blind. Paying for a house cleaner and downpayment is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Some people should just not procreate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fortunate in that my DH is a very organized and equal partner. He does at least 50 percent of everything, and is an amazing cook. He makes about 55 percent of our income.

However, our son (age 20) has ADHD, and I pray for his future wife. I know our son just cannot do so many of the things that my DH automatically does. So I hope to be able to pay for a weekly house cleaner for them, as well as helping them with a down payment on the house. I will try to support them in whatever way possible.

Forgive me if this has already been suggested, but can you hire outside help to make things any easier for you? Is there a family member who could come in and help with some things?

Or perhaps try the Serenity Prayer? (I use this a lot in my life, and find it pretty helpful.)

I'm sure others have suggested this, but keep in mind that the person with ADHD often feels pretty bad that they are not doing more. So I'm sure that it's a challenge to be sympathetic to your DH, but my guess is that he feels pretty bad. Perhaps just don't be too hard on him?

You should do more than that. You should 1) encourage him not to get married or have kids, and 2) educate any potential DILs about what they would have to deal with, so at least they are not flying blind. Paying for a house cleaner and downpayment is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Some people should just not procreate.

EUW this is gross and eugenics-ish
Richard branson, simone biles, justin timberlake, michael phelps, scott kelly (I could go on) all have adhd - like many many other successful individuals. some statistics suggest 1 in 4 boys have adhd. should they all not procreate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP’s scenario seems so common. It makes me think that there really is a reason why traditional gender roles have persisted. More women care about the details of parenting and running a household, and more men care about just doing their jobs and coming home to relax.

But in cases where the woman also chooses to work, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the man chooses to do 50% of the house/kid stuff. So it all falls to her. Women demanded the right to earn a living, but men never demanded to do laundry and mop floors - that kind of got implicitly foisted on them. It’s a tough dynamic.

(And I’m a mom who works 60 hours a week, with a husband who does almost 50% of the parenting/stuff around the house, so I’m not in the majority I’m talking about).

For most of us, work is not a "choice." We support our families with our income.

A parent who lives in a house with children s/he brought into the world is responsible for that house and that child/ren regardless of the parent's gender.

I’m the pp you quoted and I don’t disagree with you at all. I also work because I have to, and my DH pulls his weight.

I was just observing that the women’s movement to work did not include a men’s movement to do more dishes and diapers. So it isn’t surprising that they don’t want to do those things now. Saying “men should be different than they are” won’t change them.

That’s a load of crap. There isn’t a contract that needs to be in place for half of the people in a relationship to know they need to step up and do more. Many men have been raised to be selfish and people keep making excuses for it saying its nature. That is a load of horse shite. Make men be accountable and maybe their children will know better than this bull crap. We’re making a lousy future for our daughters when we enable this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you two sat down together each day and divided what needed to be done, would he be able to do it?

I'm the ADHD spouse and I make myself daily lists of what I need to do. DH and I also sit down weekly to discuss the upcoming week and who is doing what when (dinner, taking DS to practice, etc).

My lists are pretty much the only way I'm able to function. I put EVERYTHING on there, even just emptying the dishwasher.

+1

I know it’s not fair to my spouse, but I make it clear that I absolutely need them to TELL me what to do, and then I will do it. It’s not fun for me either and I am trying my best. I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me!

You…hope your spouse doesn’t resent you for knowingly treating them unfairly? That’s not ADHD that’s delusional.

There are about 100 ways you can manage executive function without expecting your spouse to do it for you.

Yes I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me for not being as capable in as many ways as they are. They certainly don’t seem to. I put forth a good faith effort every day and do what I can, but I still struggle. And I am trying all sorts of strategies to manage my mental health issues, but in the meantime my spouse actually tries to HELP ME. But, my spouse is not a petty scorekeeper like so many of the folks posting their complaints here.

I wonder if some of you would treat your kids this way. Do you think there is some magic age where all mental health issues disappear, or are suddenly no longer issues that people struggle with or suffer from, but are instead now conscious choices to be lazy and worthless? And do you know what’s ALSO exhausting? Having a mental health issue! Maybe try a little compassion?

Do you see how silly the comparison is to a child?

No. I do not. That’s because I am not aware of an age at which mental health disorders magically disappear.

I am simply saying that if you wouldn’t talk about your child with a mental health disorder this way you shouldn’t talk about your spouse with the exact same disorder this way.

You are responsible for your child’s health. Your spouse is responsible for your spouse’s health. It is gross and infantalizing to assume you should speak of an adult not managing their ADHD like they are a child.

I think you (and PP who responded ip thread) just fundamentally can’t read or are completely lacking in the ability to comprehend what you read. I am not comparing adults and children in terms of their life responsibilities or their need to be cared for. I am comparing them in terms of their mental health disorders. And I am not advocating that anyone should remain married to or manage their spouse who struggles, I am merely suggesting that they stop trying to make it out to be some sort of moral failing on their spouse’s part. It’s an illness. That doesn’t mean you have to choose to live with someone who has such an illness, but the absolute venom with which people describe their spouses is appalling. So I will repeat: if you would not TALK ABOUT your child this way, do not TALK ABOUT your spouse this way.

Again, a child’s health is my responsibility. So if that health condition isn’t managed, it is my responsibility to address that fact.

If an adult is not managing their health concern, that is their own responsibility. An adult not treating their ADHD and availing themselves of the now thousands of coaches, apps, therapies etc. who is instead making their spouse carry their weight is selfish, entitled, and yes, morally wrong.

A child whose ADHD isn’t treated isn’t being parented well.

The reason we don’t talk about them the same is that the individual responsible isn’t the same.

But what if they ARE “availing themselves” of the resources you mentioned and it either isn’t helping at all (this is a real possibility), or it isn’t helping enough or quickly enough that they are able to never burden their spouse with anything? What if the person was never diagnosed or treated as a child so they are just now figuring this out as an adult? You are saying they are moral failures?

And finally, NO ONE is responsible for the mental health condition! They are responsible for trying to deal with it as best they can, but despite what so many of you seem to think there isn’t actually a cure that will “fix” them. Even with meds and therapy this is a condition that needs to be actively managed forever, and guess what? That is ALSO exhausting.

I’m sure if you ever get a chronic illness you would never dream of asking your spouse to carry any of your weight. Take time off to drive you to chemo? Nope! Your responsibility! Oh you’re claiming you’re too tired from treatment to make dinner even though you know the kids need to be fed? WTF? Lazy! The best you can do tonight is order pizza and not even bother with vegetables?! Bad mother and bad spouse!

If you read what you’re quoting you’re going to see the “individual responsible” is the individual responsible for getting care for the condition. In ADHD in a child, that’s the parents. In an adult, the adult is responsible for seeking care unless the eyre a ward of the state or under a conservatorship.

I actually have a slow-healing injury so I’m glad you raised that. It would not, in fact, be fair for me to expect my spouse to take on my tasks. We outsource most of “my” housekeeping tasks. We don’t say “oh I know it’s unfair but my spouse will just have to clean every toilet and do every load of laundry for the rest of their life! I hope they don’t resent it!”

Get a coach. Get a therapist. Get on new meds. Hire a home manager. But don’t say you know you’re treating your spouse badly (which “knowing” you’re treating them unfairly absolutely is…) and then be mad at people pointing that out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP’s scenario seems so common. It makes me think that there really is a reason why traditional gender roles have persisted. More women care about the details of parenting and running a household, and more men care about just doing their jobs and coming home to relax.

But in cases where the woman also chooses to work, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the man chooses to do 50% of the house/kid stuff. So it all falls to her. Women demanded the right to earn a living, but men never demanded to do laundry and mop floors - that kind of got implicitly foisted on them. It’s a tough dynamic.

(And I’m a mom who works 60 hours a week, with a husband who does almost 50% of the parenting/stuff around the house, so I’m not in the majority I’m talking about).

For most of us, work is not a "choice." We support our families with our income.

A parent who lives in a house with children s/he brought into the world is responsible for that house and that child/ren regardless of the parent's gender.

I’m the pp you quoted and I don’t disagree with you at all. I also work because I have to, and my DH pulls his weight.

I was just observing that the women’s movement to work did not include a men’s movement to do more dishes and diapers. So it isn’t surprising that they don’t want to do those things now. Saying “men should be different than they are” won’t change them.

That’s a load of crap. There isn’t a contract that needs to be in place for half of the people in a relationship to know they need to step up and do more. Many men have been raised to be selfish and people keep making excuses for it saying its nature. That is a load of horse shite. Make men be accountable and maybe their children will know better than this bull crap. We’re making a lousy future for our daughters when we enable this.

Np I don’t think pp would disagree with you that men need to be held accountable at home but I get what she is saying re the women's movement.

There was a big cultural shift with how we view women in the workplace and with the expectation that women should be seeking higher education and building careers.

While some men have been filling in the gaps at home there has not been a major cultural shift in terms of how we view their responsibilities as men. There is not an equal movement for men to do more at home and kill it at home making. This is still work that is not appreciated as important or impressive so they aren’t fighting to take ownership of it.

Yes, men should absolutely be contributing equally but women are in a really tough spot right now where we fought for the right to work (and make our own money and garner some level of respect) but men did not step up en mass to support this endeavor. Expectations are changing but progress is slow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am fortunate in that my DH is a very organized and equal partner. He does at least 50 percent of everything, and is an amazing cook. He makes about 55 percent of our income.

However, our son (age 20) has ADHD, and I pray for his future wife. I know our son just cannot do so many of the things that my DH automatically does. So I hope to be able to pay for a weekly house cleaner for them, as well as helping them with a down payment on the house. I will try to support them in whatever way possible.

Forgive me if this has already been suggested, but can you hire outside help to make things any easier for you? Is there a family member who could come in and help with some things?

Or perhaps try the Serenity Prayer? (I use this a lot in my life, and find it pretty helpful.)

I'm sure others have suggested this, but keep in mind that the person with ADHD often feels pretty bad that they are not doing more. So I'm sure that it's a challenge to be sympathetic to your DH, but my guess is that he feels pretty bad. Perhaps just don't be too hard on him?

Honestly you sound like a bigger problem than your son here.

How about instead of investing in someone else to do the things your son “just cannot” do, you get him coaching, therapy, and medication so that he can?

And how about you stop making excuses for him? He’s not physically disabled? There’s nothing he “just cannot” do. There are things he needs support to do, get him that support.

Don’t let him lie to potential spouses about his diagnoses. Tell them yourself if he hasn’t by the engagement phase.

[Anonymous]

Amen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kindness is everything, including from the ADHD person apologizing and managing their symptoms.

I disagree anyone needs to be apologizing for their ADHD itself, but wow do I hate the trend where people who have ADHD (or any diagnosable issue) should not need to apologize when their ADHD causes real damage to other people. As though because the root cause of the issue is ADHD, they are somehow exempt from needing to make amends or being in anyway accountable for the consequences of their behavior.

No one needs to apologize for simply having ADHD, but if your ADHD seriously impacts your partner in negative ways, absolutely you should apologize for it! People can understand nuance and can understand the difference between "I did this on purpose because I'm a sociopath," and "This got away from me and I didn't mean to do it and I hate that it happened." So SAY IT. Don't just assume that any and all behavior that can be explained by ADHD must be accepted, accommodated, and absorbed by your partner without complain or explanation.

I has depression for about 5 years in the middle of my marriage, and it was not my fault and it was definitely more horrible for me than my partner. But that doesn't mean I didn't need to sit down and tell my partner, on more than one occasion, "Hey, I get that dealing with this is hard for you and I really appreciate that you have hung in there with me, and I appreciate the occasions when you've gone above and beyond to make up for the fact I couldn't. And I need you to know that I'm working hard to address this issue, not just because I don't want to be like this forever, but also because I want to be a better version of myself for you and for our family." It matters. A lot.

Your partner doesn't exist just to make your life easier. Gratitude and humility are pretty useful skills in maintaining a strong marriage. This idea like "it's not me, it's the ADHD" is so toxic. It's the ADHD but it's also you, and when it hurts other people, it actually don't matter why -- it hurts them. Own your $hit.

[Anonymous]

Re: subject line

I dont think you need to accept the unequal amount of things to do on the homefront Op.

You do have accept that your adhd husband is an idiot so stop excepting him to come through on anything.

You have to “accept” that it’s never going to happen and plan the household yourself or do it yourself or manage the help or raise your kids to be independent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you two sat down together each day and divided what needed to be done, would he be able to do it?

I'm the ADHD spouse and I make myself daily lists of what I need to do. DH and I also sit down weekly to discuss the upcoming week and who is doing what when (dinner, taking DS to practice, etc).

My lists are pretty much the only way I'm able to function. I put EVERYTHING on there, even just emptying the dishwasher.

+1

I know it’s not fair to my spouse, but I make it clear that I absolutely need them to TELL me what to do, and then I will do it. It’s not fun for me either and I am trying my best. I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me!

You…hope your spouse doesn’t resent you for knowingly treating them unfairly? That’s not ADHD that’s delusional.

There are about 100 ways you can manage executive function without expecting your spouse to do it for you.

Yes I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me for not being as capable in as many ways as they are. They certainly don’t seem to. I put forth a good faith effort every day and do what I can, but I still struggle. And I am trying all sorts of strategies to manage my mental health issues, but in the meantime my spouse actually tries to HELP ME. But, my spouse is not a petty scorekeeper like so many of the folks posting their complaints here.

I wonder if some of you would treat your kids this way. Do you think there is some magic age where all mental health issues disappear, or are suddenly no longer issues that people struggle with or suffer from, but are instead now conscious choices to be lazy and worthless? And do you know what’s ALSO exhausting? Having a mental health issue! Maybe try a little compassion?

Do you see how silly the comparison is to a child?

No. I do not. That’s because I am not aware of an age at which mental health disorders magically disappear.

I am simply saying that if you wouldn’t talk about your child with a mental health disorder this way you shouldn’t talk about your spouse with the exact same disorder this way.

You are responsible for your child’s health. Your spouse is responsible for your spouse’s health. It is gross and infantalizing to assume you should speak of an adult not managing their ADHD like they are a child.

I think you (and PP who responded ip thread) just fundamentally can’t read or are completely lacking in the ability to comprehend what you read. I am not comparing adults and children in terms of their life responsibilities or their need to be cared for. I am comparing them in terms of their mental health disorders. And I am not advocating that anyone should remain married to or manage their spouse who struggles, I am merely suggesting that they stop trying to make it out to be some sort of moral failing on their spouse’s part. It’s an illness. That doesn’t mean you have to choose to live with someone who has such an illness, but the absolute venom with which people describe their spouses is appalling. So I will repeat: if you would not TALK ABOUT your child this way, do not TALK ABOUT your spouse this way.

Again, a child’s health is my responsibility. So if that health condition isn’t managed, it is my responsibility to address that fact.

If an adult is not managing their health concern, that is their own responsibility. An adult not treating their ADHD and availing themselves of the now thousands of coaches, apps, therapies etc. who is instead making their spouse carry their weight is selfish, entitled, and yes, morally wrong.

A child whose ADHD isn’t treated isn’t being parented well.

The reason we don’t talk about them the same is that the individual responsible isn’t the same.

But what if they ARE “availing themselves” of the resources you mentioned and it either isn’t helping at all (this is a real possibility), or it isn’t helping enough or quickly enough that they are able to never burden their spouse with anything? What if the person was never diagnosed or treated as a child so they are just now figuring this out as an adult? You are saying they are moral failures?

And finally, NO ONE is responsible for the mental health condition! They are responsible for trying to deal with it as best they can, but despite what so many of you seem to think there isn’t actually a cure that will “fix” them. Even with meds and therapy this is a condition that needs to be actively managed forever, and guess what? That is ALSO exhausting.

I’m sure if you ever get a chronic illness you would never dream of asking your spouse to carry any of your weight. Take time off to drive you to chemo? Nope! Your responsibility! Oh you’re claiming you’re too tired from treatment to make dinner even though you know the kids need to be fed? WTF? Lazy! The best you can do tonight is order pizza and not even bother with vegetables?! Bad mother and bad spouse!

If you read what you’re quoting you’re going to see the “individual responsible” is the individual responsible for getting care for the condition. In ADHD in a child, that’s the parents. In an adult, the adult is responsible for seeking care unless the eyre a ward of the state or under a conservatorship.

I actually have a slow-healing injury so I’m glad you raised that. It would not, in fact, be fair for me to expect my spouse to take on my tasks. We outsource most of “my” housekeeping tasks. We don’t say “oh I know it’s unfair but my spouse will just have to clean every toilet and do every load of laundry for the rest of their life! I hope they don’t resent it!”

Get a coach. Get a therapist. Get on new meds. Hire a home manager. But don’t say you know you’re treating your spouse badly (which “knowing” you’re treating them unfairly absolutely is…) and then be mad at people pointing that out.

LOL you just “outsource” the tasks you simply can’t do and then act like you’re somehow morally superior to other families who aren’t made of money and therefore can’t just *pretend* they’re pulling their weight. You absolutely sound like an insufferable, rigid, unpleasant person. I feel sorry for your spouse just for having to live with you. Talk about unfair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you two sat down together each day and divided what needed to be done, would he be able to do it?

I'm the ADHD spouse and I make myself daily lists of what I need to do. DH and I also sit down weekly to discuss the upcoming week and who is doing what when (dinner, taking DS to practice, etc).

My lists are pretty much the only way I'm able to function. I put EVERYTHING on there, even just emptying the dishwasher.

+1

I know it’s not fair to my spouse, but I make it clear that I absolutely need them to TELL me what to do, and then I will do it. It’s not fun for me either and I am trying my best. I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me!

You…hope your spouse doesn’t resent you for knowingly treating them unfairly? That’s not ADHD that’s delusional.

There are about 100 ways you can manage executive function without expecting your spouse to do it for you.

Yes I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me for not being as capable in as many ways as they are. They certainly don’t seem to. I put forth a good faith effort every day and do what I can, but I still struggle. And I am trying all sorts of strategies to manage my mental health issues, but in the meantime my spouse actually tries to HELP ME. But, my spouse is not a petty scorekeeper like so many of the folks posting their complaints here.

I wonder if some of you would treat your kids this way. Do you think there is some magic age where all mental health issues disappear, or are suddenly no longer issues that people struggle with or suffer from, but are instead now conscious choices to be lazy and worthless? And do you know what’s ALSO exhausting? Having a mental health issue! Maybe try a little compassion?

Do you see how silly the comparison is to a child?

No. I do not. That’s because I am not aware of an age at which mental health disorders magically disappear.

I am simply saying that if you wouldn’t talk about your child with a mental health disorder this way you shouldn’t talk about your spouse with the exact same disorder this way.

You are responsible for your child’s health. Your spouse is responsible for your spouse’s health. It is gross and infantalizing to assume you should speak of an adult not managing their ADHD like they are a child.

I think you (and PP who responded ip thread) just fundamentally can’t read or are completely lacking in the ability to comprehend what you read. I am not comparing adults and children in terms of their life responsibilities or their need to be cared for. I am comparing them in terms of their mental health disorders. And I am not advocating that anyone should remain married to or manage their spouse who struggles, I am merely suggesting that they stop trying to make it out to be some sort of moral failing on their spouse’s part. It’s an illness. That doesn’t mean you have to choose to live with someone who has such an illness, but the absolute venom with which people describe their spouses is appalling. So I will repeat: if you would not TALK ABOUT your child this way, do not TALK ABOUT your spouse this way.

Again, a child’s health is my responsibility. So if that health condition isn’t managed, it is my responsibility to address that fact.

If an adult is not managing their health concern, that is their own responsibility. An adult not treating their ADHD and availing themselves of the now thousands of coaches, apps, therapies etc. who is instead making their spouse carry their weight is selfish, entitled, and yes, morally wrong.

A child whose ADHD isn’t treated isn’t being parented well.

The reason we don’t talk about them the same is that the individual responsible isn’t the same.

But what if they ARE “availing themselves” of the resources you mentioned and it either isn’t helping at all (this is a real possibility), or it isn’t helping enough or quickly enough that they are able to never burden their spouse with anything? What if the person was never diagnosed or treated as a child so they are just now figuring this out as an adult? You are saying they are moral failures?

And finally, NO ONE is responsible for the mental health condition! They are responsible for trying to deal with it as best they can, but despite what so many of you seem to think there isn’t actually a cure that will “fix” them. Even with meds and therapy this is a condition that needs to be actively managed forever, and guess what? That is ALSO exhausting.

I’m sure if you ever get a chronic illness you would never dream of asking your spouse to carry any of your weight. Take time off to drive you to chemo? Nope! Your responsibility! Oh you’re claiming you’re too tired from treatment to make dinner even though you know the kids need to be fed? WTF? Lazy! The best you can do tonight is order pizza and not even bother with vegetables?! Bad mother and bad spouse!

If you read what you’re quoting you’re going to see the “individual responsible” is the individual responsible for getting care for the condition. In ADHD in a child, that’s the parents. In an adult, the adult is responsible for seeking care unless the eyre a ward of the state or under a conservatorship.

I actually have a slow-healing injury so I’m glad you raised that. It would not, in fact, be fair for me to expect my spouse to take on my tasks. We outsource most of “my” housekeeping tasks. We don’t say “oh I know it’s unfair but my spouse will just have to clean every toilet and do every load of laundry for the rest of their life! I hope they don’t resent it!”

Get a coach. Get a therapist. Get on new meds. Hire a home manager. But don’t say you know you’re treating your spouse badly (which “knowing” you’re treating them unfairly absolutely is…) and then be mad at people pointing that out.

LOL you just “outsource” the tasks you simply can’t do and then act like you’re somehow morally superior to other families who aren’t made of money and therefore can’t just *pretend* they’re pulling their weight. You absolutely sound like an insufferable, rigid, unpleasant person. I feel sorry for your spouse just for having to live with you. Talk about unfair.

Everyone makes choices about how they spend money. Maybe we go on fewer vacations than you do, or drive older cars. You have no idea other than we have prioritized not saddling my spouse with things I can’t do and pretending that’s the only option available.

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Anonymous wrote:If you two sat down together each day and divided what needed to be done, would he be able to do it?

I'm the ADHD spouse and I make myself daily lists of what I need to do. DH and I also sit down weekly to discuss the upcoming week and who is doing what when (dinner, taking DS to practice, etc).

My lists are pretty much the only way I'm able to function. I put EVERYTHING on there, even just emptying the dishwasher.

+1

I know it’s not fair to my spouse, but I make it clear that I absolutely need them to TELL me what to do, and then I will do it. It’s not fun for me either and I am trying my best. I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me!

You…hope your spouse doesn’t resent you for knowingly treating them unfairly? That’s not ADHD that’s delusional.

There are about 100 ways you can manage executive function without expecting your spouse to do it for you.

Yes I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me for not being as capable in as many ways as they are. They certainly don’t seem to. I put forth a good faith effort every day and do what I can, but I still struggle. And I am trying all sorts of strategies to manage my mental health issues, but in the meantime my spouse actually tries to HELP ME. But, my spouse is not a petty scorekeeper like so many of the folks posting their complaints here.

I wonder if some of you would treat your kids this way. Do you think there is some magic age where all mental health issues disappear, or are suddenly no longer issues that people struggle with or suffer from, but are instead now conscious choices to be lazy and worthless? And do you know what’s ALSO exhausting? Having a mental health issue! Maybe try a little compassion?

Do you see how silly the comparison is to a child?

No. I do not. That’s because I am not aware of an age at which mental health disorders magically disappear.

I am simply saying that if you wouldn’t talk about your child with a mental health disorder this way you shouldn’t talk about your spouse with the exact same disorder this way.

You are responsible for your child’s health. Your spouse is responsible for your spouse’s health. It is gross and infantalizing to assume you should speak of an adult not managing their ADHD like they are a child.

I think you (and PP who responded ip thread) just fundamentally can’t read or are completely lacking in the ability to comprehend what you read. I am not comparing adults and children in terms of their life responsibilities or their need to be cared for. I am comparing them in terms of their mental health disorders. And I am not advocating that anyone should remain married to or manage their spouse who struggles, I am merely suggesting that they stop trying to make it out to be some sort of moral failing on their spouse’s part. It’s an illness. That doesn’t mean you have to choose to live with someone who has such an illness, but the absolute venom with which people describe their spouses is appalling. So I will repeat: if you would not TALK ABOUT your child this way, do not TALK ABOUT your spouse this way.

Again, a child’s health is my responsibility. So if that health condition isn’t managed, it is my responsibility to address that fact.

If an adult is not managing their health concern, that is their own responsibility. An adult not treating their ADHD and availing themselves of the now thousands of coaches, apps, therapies etc. who is instead making their spouse carry their weight is selfish, entitled, and yes, morally wrong.

A child whose ADHD isn’t treated isn’t being parented well.

The reason we don’t talk about them the same is that the individual responsible isn’t the same.

But what if they ARE “availing themselves” of the resources you mentioned and it either isn’t helping at all (this is a real possibility), or it isn’t helping enough or quickly enough that they are able to never burden their spouse with anything? What if the person was never diagnosed or treated as a child so they are just now figuring this out as an adult? You are saying they are moral failures?

And finally, NO ONE is responsible for the mental health condition! They are responsible for trying to deal with it as best they can, but despite what so many of you seem to think there isn’t actually a cure that will “fix” them. Even with meds and therapy this is a condition that needs to be actively managed forever, and guess what? That is ALSO exhausting.

I’m sure if you ever get a chronic illness you would never dream of asking your spouse to carry any of your weight. Take time off to drive you to chemo? Nope! Your responsibility! Oh you’re claiming you’re too tired from treatment to make dinner even though you know the kids need to be fed? WTF? Lazy! The best you can do tonight is order pizza and not even bother with vegetables?! Bad mother and bad spouse!

If you read what you’re quoting you’re going to see the “individual responsible” is the individual responsible for getting care for the condition. In ADHD in a child, that’s the parents. In an adult, the adult is responsible for seeking care unless the eyre a ward of the state or under a conservatorship.

I actually have a slow-healing injury so I’m glad you raised that. It would not, in fact, be fair for me to expect my spouse to take on my tasks. We outsource most of “my” housekeeping tasks. We don’t say “oh I know it’s unfair but my spouse will just have to clean every toilet and do every load of laundry for the rest of their life! I hope they don’t resent it!”

Get a coach. Get a therapist. Get on new meds. Hire a home manager. But don’t say you know you’re treating your spouse badly (which “knowing” you’re treating them unfairly absolutely is…) and then be mad at people pointing that out.

LOL you just “outsource” the tasks you simply can’t do and then act like you’re somehow morally superior to other families who aren’t made of money and therefore can’t just *pretend* they’re pulling their weight. You absolutely sound like an insufferable, rigid, unpleasant person. I feel sorry for your spouse just for having to live with you. Talk about unfair.

Everyone makes choices about how they spend money. Maybe we go on fewer vacations than you do, or drive older cars. You have no idea other than we have prioritized not saddling my spouse with things I can’t do and pretending that’s the only option available.

So your spouse has to forego vacations and drive a beater because you “can’t” pull your weight? Well in that case, problem solved! Every ADHD spouse can just spend the family’s money to “outsource” their chores!

(You are projecting in this thread, I think. Or you are a poster child for that saying “Rules for thee, but not for me!” I mean really, you are admitting you PAY SOMEONE to do your share, yet you here you are on your high horse judging others as being lazy, irresponsible, unfair spouses. It’s baffling how hypocritical your take is.)