European families appear so perfect with such well-behaved children - how do they do it?

[Anonymous]

The American lady in France that I follow on Insta says it is because French kids get in a lot of trouble by their parents. Apparently they are super harsh with their kids.

She said it is one thing she does not like about living there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an American who spends time in Stockholm and have observed this too, OP. I also notice a related phenomenon with family dogs when they are taken out in public. Swedish city-dwelling dogs have -excellent- manners and temperament compared to DC dogs — even the same breeds. It’s like they are all highly trained service dogs for the vision impaired. Calm and confident, never leash pulling or inappropriately interested in every stimulus.

With both kids and dogs, a large part of the presentation has to be expectations set at birth. But genetics must have something to do with it because you almost never see crying fussy babies in store or errands, which blows my mind. They’re all calm.

The people are calm too. In a more socialist society where you don't make a lot of $ but you have security of health insurance, free education etc. there is far less striving and stress forUMC families. These are also far smaller spaces, there isn't a lot of private space (large back yards etc) so you are always out in public and other people will correct your kids. Europeans and even more so the Japanese have a very strong culture of not inconveniencing others with their actions.

Bwahahaha. I have to laugh at this. As someone who actually lives in Europe, this couldnt be further from the truth and is typical of the American "rose colored glasses" mentality or idealism. When you actually *live* here you will see plenty of instances of people losing their temper, in fact it's much more normalized to see people shouting at each other over small things than in America. Raised voices are not some uncommon abnormality the way it is in the United States.

[Anonymous]

You hold the line. You never allow any poor behavior, poor eating, etc from the time of infancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You also have to think about the European families you’re coming across when you’re on vacation. You’re seeing MC and up who are also on vacation or who can afford to live in the very nice areas.
I’m English but live in the US. Spouse and DD are American. Currently in Germany. We’ve seen very few kids on screens in restaurants or other public places. They’re interacting with their adults or coloring or reading etc.
Americans seem more hesitant to do this and hand a screen over far too young. Kids are less likely to learn how to sit and behave when it’s never expected.

Exactly. It's totally selection bias. If you stay at the Four Season in the Maldives or whatever you'll get exposed to a different crowd than if you stay at a Days Inn in south Kentucky. There are plenty of loud kids in Europe, but generally they are less coddled and babied than in the US, more left to their own devices than American kids who are often catered to even well into childhood

[Anonymous]

I’m from one of the groups you mention above, and am raising kids in the US. Many parents I’ve spent time with here just *will not* correct their kids. There’s an enormous spectrum between that and the abuse that the hyperbolic PP above imagines….perhaps just try asking your kids to behave, in a normal voice, and explain to them why. Yes you’ll have to be consistent and ask over several or many occasions. Bc that’s how expectations are set and habits are formed. The TV show on the screen gets a more immediate result but you’ve taught them nothing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you visit a Restaurant in Italy every single kid from age 0 - 18 sits in front of a screen, if you're lucky, the child is wearing headphones but very often you have to listen to they idiotic game the child is playing.
Signed Eropean

That's because OP had a skewed sample that doesn't represent the general population. I am sure OP is highly educated and understands statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m from one of the groups you mention above, and am raising kids in the US. Many parents I’ve spent time with here just *will not* correct their kids. There’s an enormous spectrum between that and the abuse that the hyperbolic PP above imagines….perhaps just try asking your kids to behave, in a normal voice, and explain to them why. Yes you’ll have to be consistent and ask over several or many occasions. Bc that’s how expectations are set and habits are formed. The TV show on the screen gets a more immediate result but you’ve taught them nothing

+1

When my kids were little we would immediately take them out of a restaurant if they were acting up. And yes that sometimes meant one parent staying back and having food packed up and paying the bill while the other put the screaming kid in the car seat. Did it suck at the time? Absolutely. Do I have well behaved kids now? I sure do. They’re not perfect, but they are very well behaved to their teachers and to us, and we have a pretty calm family now. It took years of hard work, and most American families don’t see that as worth it. And no we were never ever abusive, and we have close relationships with our children. American parents let their kids get away with way too much, they dont even see bad behavior as bad behavior. They see their little child as being creative and expressive. My kids are very expressive and creative, but they do it more calmly. And no, it was not because they’re just easy kids. It’s because we were diligent and consistent and our hard work paid off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They probably yell at them and borderline abuse them in private. So the kids would never act up.
Then the manners are learned and eventually, there’s no abuse, but they always know deep down they can’t act like a punk.

Contrast US kids who are coddled. I prefer coddled, free and expressive kids.

Ladies and gentlemen, THIS! I am European and we just have a different view of what social skills are. We teach our kids how to share space and respect other people, not to grab the most for themselves while trampling over the bodies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They probably yell at them and borderline abuse them in private. So the kids would never act up.
Then the manners are learned and eventually, there’s no abuse, but they always know deep down they can’t act like a punk.

Contrast US kids who are coddled. I prefer coddled, free and expressive kids.

You have just revealed your deep well of ignorance about how to raise well-behaved children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m from one of the groups you mention above, and am raising kids in the US. Many parents I’ve spent time with here just *will not* correct their kids. There’s an enormous spectrum between that and the abuse that the hyperbolic PP above imagines….perhaps just try asking your kids to behave, in a normal voice, and explain to them why. Yes you’ll have to be consistent and ask over several or many occasions. Bc that’s how expectations are set and habits are formed. The TV show on the screen gets a more immediate result but you’ve taught them nothing

+1

When my kids were little we would immediately take them out of a restaurant if they were acting up. And yes that sometimes meant one parent staying back and having food packed up and paying the bill while the other put the screaming kid in the car seat. Did it suck at the time? Absolutely. Do I have well behaved kids now? I sure do. They’re not perfect, but they are very well behaved to their teachers and to us, and we have a pretty calm family now. It took years of hard work, and most American families don’t see that as worth it. And no we were never ever abusive, and we have close relationships with our children. American parents let their kids get away with way too much, they dont even see bad behavior as bad behavior. They see their little child as being creative and expressive. My kids are very expressive and creative, but they do it more calmly. And no, it was not because they’re just easy kids. It’s because we were diligent and consistent and our hard work paid off.

+2. American parents are deadly afraid to appear authoritarian, especially the UMC well educated types. I’ve seen many times the parents trying to reason with a kid and get them to “independently” arrive at the conclusion that what they are doing right now is really bothering other people. I had no problem saying to the kids “stop that right now or we are leaving”, and they knew I meant it, so they had to stop instead of starting a prolonged negotiation where the kids just keep doing what they are doing while the parent is pleading with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone with European family, just, boy. I mean some of my cousins' kids are well behaved but some of them definitely are not.

Greek or thereabouts?

[Anonymous]

Europeans do not indulge their children or dogs (or horses, for that matter!) in positive-reinforcement-only. The ones that do also have "coddled" aka spoiled children.

Learning "no" and how to follow rules is a really important part of development.

In the US, if you chastise your children people are horrified and think they are "abused." It shows in their children.

I raise my children religiously and they go to a classical school where this nonsense is not tolerated and they are around well-behaved peers. My children are lovely and fit right in when we travel to Europe.

We are not mean by any imagination, just have expectations for behavior. As a result, by the time they are in middle school they need much less parenting because they already know how to behave. It's rare I have to correct my kids once they are around 10 or so.

[Anonymous]

A high trust homogenous society where they are held to higher standards as individuals.

[Anonymous]

My kid is pretty well behaved and I think it’s mostly genetic/personality lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you visit a Restaurant in Italy every single kid from age 0 - 18 sits in front of a screen, if you're lucky, the child is wearing headphones but very often you have to listen to they idiotic game the child is playing.
Signed Eropean

No. Not the natives.

— living in Milan for school currently