When the kids go to college, I'm out of this loveless and affectionless marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Same reason you are here. It's entertaining and sometimes educational. And I am arrogant enough to think I have some useful thoughts on this topic because my situation required some hard work to bring wife back from the brink of self destruction into 24x7 SuperMom mode. I think this is a common reason why guys like OP cheat or divorce or check out early but stay married. And hearing about exception cases like yours doesn't help the discussion without you making clear until page 16 just how extreme your case really is.

So enlighten us. What helpful tips are you offering?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same reason you are here. It's entertaining and sometimes educational. And I am arrogant enough to think I have some useful thoughts on this topic because my situation required some hard work to bring wife back from the brink of self destruction into 24x7 SuperMom mode. I think this is a common reason why guys like OP cheat or divorce or check out early but stay married. And hearing about exception cases like yours doesn't help the discussion without you making clear until page 16 just how extreme your case really is.

So enlighten us. What helpful tips are you offering?

Please dont feed the troll... (trust me he's been spouting off the past few pages)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same reason you are here. It's entertaining and sometimes educational. And I am arrogant enough to think I have some useful thoughts on this topic because my situation required some hard work to bring wife back from the brink of self destruction into 24x7 SuperMom mode. I think this is a common reason why guys like OP cheat or divorce or check out early but stay married. And hearing about exception cases like yours doesn't help the discussion without you making clear until page 16 just how extreme your case really is.

So enlighten us. What helpful tips are you offering?

Please dont feed the troll... (trust me he's been spouting off the past few pages)

I know. I just wanted to see him say his tip was to tell the selfish fat wife to stop focusing on the baby and pay more attention to him. Cuz he's dreamy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same reason you are here. It's entertaining and sometimes educational. And I am arrogant enough to think I have some useful thoughts on this topic because my situation required some hard work to bring wife back from the brink of self destruction into 24x7 SuperMom mode. I think this is a common reason why guys like OP cheat or divorce or check out early but stay married. And hearing about exception cases like yours doesn't help the discussion without you making clear until page 16 just how extreme your case really is.

So enlighten us. What helpful tips are you offering?

Please dont feed the troll... (trust me he's been spouting off the past few pages)

I know. I just wanted to see him say his tip was to tell the selfish fat wife to stop focusing on the baby and pay more attention to him. Cuz he's dreamy.

Lol that really made me laugh out loud. It really drives home how childish and ridiculous he is. I can't even imagine thinking about the world that way. it must be so frustrating for him driving to work every day. He must find it a grave injustice that cars dont part and pull to the shoulder to allow him to have the road... The entitlement is strong with this one.

[Anonymous]

DH's parents divorced when he went to college. FIL married a woman who is 2 years older than DH. DH resents his father very much. He is close to his mother but has no relationship with his father. DH's love for his mother is strong and I feel his sadness and hurt regarding his father's betrayal to his mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I know. I just wanted to see him say his tip was to tell the selfish fat wife to stop focusing on the baby and pay more attention to him. Cuz he's dreamy.

Yes, I would tell the selfish fat wife to stop focusing 100% on the baby!
I would tell her that the reason she is so utterly exhausted is that a good portion of the stuff she does "for the baby" is really "for her" because the baby would be perfectly fine either way.
I'd tell her to STOP doing all that un-reasonable stuff, focus some on herself, and focus some on her husband.

Definitely not 100% on the baby. THAT IS SELFISH.

I would tell the husband to be certain he is doing is 50% share of all reasonable child care. Many men "think" they are, but are really not, so I'd ask him to see what his wife thinks about it.
Then I would ask him if he wants to keep a good relationship going with his wife, or if he is so completely overjoyed with "oooh it's a baby" that the married couple should not invest any effort with one another, instead they should both focus 100% on this baby, 24x7, and don't forget this means they won't be having any sex.

Assuming he was not on-board with the excessive SuperMom and SuperDad plan, then I'd tell him NOT to participate in un-reasonable child care, and to discourage his wife from doing un-reasonable child care, to point out when she is being "selfish" like that, and instead she should take some personal time and relax and/or go to the gym. I'd tell him to outsource every aspect of their home life possible, to ensure both parents are not getting tired out doing low value stuff like lawn care. I'd tell him not to believe anybody who says the sexlife ends once a baby arrives, but that things are different and this may take a while to adjust. It shouldn't take years and he should remain patient but firm and his marriage depends on keeping that connection with wife even if her instincts cause her to ocacssionally drift into SuperMom mode, he should work to bring her back.

I'd tell him if, despite his best efforts and some failed counseling, she insists on playing the SuperMom role, this means she's chosen not to have a normal married relationship with her husband, instead she chooses to be selfish and put all her efforts "into the kids". Then he needs to consider the other options to avoid a miserable celibate life, such as divorce or discrete affairs.

[Anonymous]

child-centered marriage is the term I was looking for. Google that. I'd ask him if this is what he wants, and if he thinks this is best for the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know. I just wanted to see him say his tip was to tell the selfish fat wife to stop focusing on the baby and pay more attention to him. Cuz he's dreamy.

Yes, I would tell the selfish fat wife to stop focusing 100% on the baby!
I would tell her that the reason she is so utterly exhausted is that a good portion of the stuff she does "for the baby" is really "for her" because the baby would be perfectly fine either way.
I'd tell her to STOP doing all that un-reasonable stuff, focus some on herself, and focus some on her husband.

Definitely not 100% on the baby. THAT IS SELFISH.

I would tell the husband to be certain he is doing is 50% share of all reasonable child care. Many men "think" they are, but are really not, so I'd ask him to see what his wife thinks about it.
Then I would ask him if he wants to keep a good relationship going with his wife, or if he is so completely overjoyed with "oooh it's a baby" that the married couple should not invest any effort with one another, instead they should both focus 100% on this baby, 24x7, and don't forget this means they won't be having any sex.

Assuming he was not on-board with the excessive SuperMom and SuperDad plan, then I'd tell him NOT to participate in un-reasonable child care, and to discourage his wife from doing un-reasonable child care, to point out when she is being "selfish" like that, and instead she should take some personal time and relax and/or go to the gym. I'd tell him to outsource every aspect of their home life possible, to ensure both parents are not getting tired out doing low value stuff like lawn care. I'd tell him not to believe anybody who says the sexlife ends once a baby arrives, but that things are different and this may take a while to adjust. It shouldn't take years and he should remain patient but firm and his marriage depends on keeping that connection with wife even if her instincts cause her to ocacssionally drift into SuperMom mode, he should work to bring her back.

I'd tell him if, despite his best efforts and some failed counseling, she insists on playing the SuperMom role, this means she's chosen not to have a normal married relationship with her husband, instead she chooses to be selfish and put all her efforts "into the kids". Then he needs to consider the other options to avoid a miserable celibate life, such as divorce or discrete affairs.

In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya: I don't think that word, "selfish", means what you think it means.

[Anonymous]

It's selfish in the sense that, beyond a certain point, such a mom isn't motivated by the reasonable needs of the child. She's responding to resolve her own anxiety about being a good mom or respond to what she perceives as social expectations about being a good mom and not being a bad mom who is, for example, shunned by the other neighborhood mommies. (Maybe she's trying to avoid the disapproving looks when other mothers find out that she has not taught Junior baby sign language or that she's not preparing her own organic baby food.)

She might get social status or the benefits of martyrdom from overdoing the mothering in way that she doesn't get from doing a reasonable amount of mothering and paying attention to their spouses.

[Anonymous]

Wow PP, well said.
So there are at least 3 of us here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's selfish in the sense that, beyond a certain point, such a mom isn't motivated by the reasonable needs of the child. She's responding to resolve her own anxiety about being a good mom or respond to what she perceives as social expectations about being a good mom and not being a bad mom who is, for example, shunned by the other neighborhood mommies. (Maybe she's trying to avoid the disapproving looks when other mothers find out that she has not taught Junior baby sign language or that she's not preparing her own organic baby food.)

She might get social status or the benefits of martyrdom from overdoing the mothering in way that she doesn't get from doing a reasonable amount of mothering and paying attention to their spouses.

Or maybe, just maybe, she (drumroll please) cares about the kids? You have no way of looking inside her head and knowing that she has some other motivation. And trust me, a cruel, assuming-the-negative attitude like that will turn no one on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's selfish in the sense that, beyond a certain point, such a mom isn't motivated by the reasonable needs of the child. She's responding to resolve her own anxiety about being a good mom or respond to what she perceives as social expectations about being a good mom and not being a bad mom who is, for example, shunned by the other neighborhood mommies. (Maybe she's trying to avoid the disapproving looks when other mothers find out that she has not taught Junior baby sign language or that she's not preparing her own organic baby food.)

She might get social status or the benefits of martyrdom from overdoing the mothering in way that she doesn't get from doing a reasonable amount of mothering and paying attention to their spouses.

Or maybe, just maybe, she (drumroll please) cares about the kids? You have no way of looking inside her head and knowing that she has some other motivation. And trust me, a cruel, assuming-the-negative attitude like that will turn no one on.

Almost all of us care about the kids. That prompts us to give them what they need. Some parents, usually moms, let this care morph into something all-consuming. First couple of months - sure. After that, the kids' reasonable needs do not require a mom who is focused on nothing else. If she is focused entirely on the kids, it's not a selfless thing she does for them. There's something she's getting out of the deal -- e.g. martyrdom, social status, a handy excuse to block out other parts of her life she'd rather not be bothered with. Something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's selfish in the sense that, beyond a certain point, such a mom isn't motivated by the reasonable needs of the child. She's responding to resolve her own anxiety about being a good mom or respond to what she perceives as social expectations about being a good mom and not being a bad mom who is, for example, shunned by the other neighborhood mommies. (Maybe she's trying to avoid the disapproving looks when other mothers find out that she has not taught Junior baby sign language or that she's not preparing her own organic baby food.)

She might get social status or the benefits of martyrdom from overdoing the mothering in way that she doesn't get from doing a reasonable amount of mothering and paying attention to their spouses.

Or maybe, just maybe, she (drumroll please) cares about the kids? You have no way of looking inside her head and knowing that she has some other motivation. And trust me, a cruel, assuming-the-negative attitude like that will turn no one on.

Almost all of us care about the kids. That prompts us to give them what they need. Some parents, usually moms, let this care morph into something all-consuming. First couple of months - sure. After that, the kids' reasonable needs do not require a mom who is focused on nothing else. If she is focused entirely on the kids, it's not a selfless thing she does for them. There's something she's getting out of the deal -- e.g. martyrdom, social status, a handy excuse to block out other parts of her life she'd rather not be bothered with. Something.

Ok Sherlock. Your ridiculous speculation doesn't even merit and answer. I certainly hope you're not a parent if caring about your kids as your first priority is selfish.... If you are I feel sad for your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's selfish in the sense that, beyond a certain point, such a mom isn't motivated by the reasonable needs of the child. She's responding to resolve her own anxiety about being a good mom or respond to what she perceives as social expectations about being a good mom and not being a bad mom who is, for example, shunned by the other neighborhood mommies. (Maybe she's trying to avoid the disapproving looks when other mothers find out that she has not taught Junior baby sign language or that she's not preparing her own organic baby food.)

She might get social status or the benefits of martyrdom from overdoing the mothering in way that she doesn't get from doing a reasonable amount of mothering and paying attention to their spouses.

Or maybe, just maybe, she (drumroll please) cares about the kids? You have no way of looking inside her head and knowing that she has some other motivation. And trust me, a cruel, assuming-the-negative attitude like that will turn no one on.

Almost all of us care about the kids. That prompts us to give them what they need. Some parents, usually moms, let this care morph into something all-consuming. First couple of months - sure. After that, the kids' reasonable needs do not require a mom who is focused on nothing else. If she is focused entirely on the kids, it's not a selfless thing she does for them. There's something she's getting out of the deal -- e.g. martyrdom, social status, a handy excuse to block out other parts of her life she'd rather not be bothered with. Something.

Ok Sherlock. Your ridiculous speculation doesn't even merit and answer. I certainly hope you're not a parent if caring about your kids as your first priority is selfish.... If you are I feel sad for your kids.

Your substantive reply combined with your completely accurate and fair restatement of the argument presented is very persuasive. Thank you for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's selfish in the sense that, beyond a certain point, such a mom isn't motivated by the reasonable needs of the child. She's responding to resolve her own anxiety about being a good mom or respond to what she perceives as social expectations about being a good mom and not being a bad mom who is, for example, shunned by the other neighborhood mommies. (Maybe she's trying to avoid the disapproving looks when other mothers find out that she has not taught Junior baby sign language or that she's not preparing her own organic baby food.)

She might get social status or the benefits of martyrdom from overdoing the mothering in way that she doesn't get from doing a reasonable amount of mothering and paying attention to their spouses.

Or maybe, just maybe, she (drumroll please) cares about the kids? You have no way of looking inside her head and knowing that she has some other motivation. And trust me, a cruel, assuming-the-negative attitude like that will turn no one on.

Almost all of us care about the kids. That prompts us to give them what they need. Some parents, usually moms, let this care morph into something all-consuming. First couple of months - sure. After that, the kids' reasonable needs do not require a mom who is focused on nothing else. If she is focused entirely on the kids, it's not a selfless thing she does for them. There's something she's getting out of the deal -- e.g. martyrdom, social status, a handy excuse to block out other parts of her life she'd rather not be bothered with. Something.

Ok Sherlock. Your ridiculous speculation doesn't even merit and answer. I certainly hope you're not a parent if caring about your kids as your first priority is selfish.... If you are I feel sad for your kids.

Your substantive reply combined with your completely accurate and fair restatement of the argument presented is very persuasive. Thank you for that.

Same to you with your utterly preposterous speculation that she is focusing on childcare because she has some mental issues. Do you even realize how insane you sound? Talk about graspin for straws?