What is with DCUM women and "mental loads?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Completely optional. Yes if it's fun for you, no if it's not: Christmas cards, professional photo shoots, coordinating outfits, gifts or cards for extended family and friends, demanding extracurriculars/travel sports, decorating for holidays, travel for pleasure, home renovations, church, fundraisers, school dances/plays/activities/snack/potlucks, supervising homework (for typical children), home improvement, gardening, extra credit, school pictures, PTA.

Somewhat optional, you do you: Gifts or cards for close family/in-laws, volunteer work. Sports, scouting, tutoring (assuming you mean letting a kid take a harder class than they can handle on their own), art/music instruction, clubs. Cultural activities/dining out. Yearbooks.

Technically/possibly optional but skipping them every year would make you a pretty major jerk: Field trips, orthodontia, birthday parties, camps or activities with stringent deadlines, charitable giving,, playdates, entertaining. Birthday, holiday gifts/celebrations for immediate family. Travel to see family, assisting elderly relatives, weddings. Teacher conferences, holiday tips, teacher gifts

Not optional: tracking school calendar, securing child care/aftercare/summer programming, doctor/dental appointments, haircuts, clothes and shoes. Sick days. Forms/paperwork for school. Paying bills, meal planning (or how do you shop, ffs?), grocery shopping, food prep, home/yard maintenance. Cleaning. Covid impacts/quarantines. Therapies, specialized programming -- either not optional or not necessary. Pet care/vet/training if you have a pet, but you're not required to get a pet.

Sure, I think the middle area is where we all fall, right? I don't have the energy to do photo shoots or travel sports, but we celebrate holidays with extended family, have pets and do playdates. But you can't really opt out of *everything*, and the vast majority of this stuff tends to fall in the purview of mothers, whether working outside the home or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Completely optional: Christmas cards, professional photo shoots, coordinating outfits, gifts or cards for extended family and friends, demanding extracurriculars/travel sports, decorating for holidays, travel for pleasure, home renovations

Somewhat optional: Gifts or cards for close family/in-laws, camps or activities with stringent deadlines, charitable giving, volunteer work. Sports, scouting, tutoring, art/music instruction, clubs. Cultural activities/dining out. Pet care/vet/training. Holiday tips, teacher gifts, yearbooks, PTA. Church.

Technically/possibly optional: Field trips, school pictures, orthodontia, birthday parties, fundraisers, school dances/plays/activities/snack/potlucks. Playdates, entertaining. Birthday, holiday gifts/celebrations for immediate family. Travel to see family, assisting elderly relatives, weddings. Supervising homework, teacher conferences, extra credit. Therapies, specialized programming. Home improvement, gardening. Meal planning.

Not optional: tracking school calendar, securing child care/aftercare/summer programming, doctor/dental appointments, haircuts, clothes and shoes. Sick days. Forms/paperwork for school. Paying bills, grocery shopping, food prep, home/yard maintenance. Cleaning. Covid impacts/quarantines.

Agree to some extent, though the stuff in the "possibly optional" list includes things that, if you don't do them, could be considered neglectful, if not legally then by your kid's future therapist. A parent who didn't sign yup for school photos, throw birthday parties, help with homework, attend parent/teacher conference... that's a crap parent, sorry.

I also think the non-optional list is MUCH longer for parents of small children. Like... a lot. Kids under the age of five require so much care, even if you have a full time nanny. Potty training, bathing, feeding, getting dressed, discipline and emotional guidance, etc. Even if your kid is in care all day (and lining up care for kids this age takes a lot because the care is so much), a parent has to be providing all this stuff at home. Yes, some of this is physical (physically dressing them, physically showing them how to use the bathroom, physically bathing them) but there are tons of mental load tasks involved. Figuring out how to potty train and then implementing that strategy and shifting as necessary can take a year or more, and a lot of it can be mental if you have a kid who trains slowly. Getting them dressed and bathing goes from a physical task to a partially mental one as they get older and you are actually teaching them/encouraging them to do it themselves. Discipline and emotional guidance is almost all mental load as they go through those difficult stages of developing huge feelings before they have much in the way of communication skills or other resources. I mean, having a 3 year old is draining in a way that is so hard to describe. It's physical, it's mental, it's emotional. When that falls primarily on one person, it's really hard.

And then people forget so quickly! It's such a relief when your kid gets to K or 1st grade and they can do so many things on their own and you just don't really think as much about having to check EVERY TIME you leave or return to the house to see if they need to pee. You can sit down to a meal and they just eat it and aren't squirming around, running away, demanding other food, etc. In the morning they just... get dressed. They even start reminding you of stuff "No, it's Tuesday, I have soccer remember." It's amazing. And you quickly forget what it was like when you had to do all of that for them. But you did. And if one parent was doing it and the other wasn't -- that is an enormous mental load. I was the primary parent through this stage and I've never been so tired in my life. Ever. I'm sure I'm in for surprises in the teen years but the sheer minute-by-minute focus required to take care of a child between the ages of 0 and 5 is enormous.

That's what I think of when I think of mental load, and I think that's when it is most critical in most marriages. I'm surprised how much of the discussion I this thread has focused on older children because I don't think those are the moms who struggle the most under the mental load (at least not in my experience/observation). It's moms of young kids, especially as they return to work (if they ever left) and try to balance caring for largely helpless, tiny children and also having some semblance of a life or career. It's incredibly hard. That's the mental load, to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Superdad, the reason people are hostile is that their husbands don’t go any of that. They do nothing. Dead weight. Many women are married to men who don’t engage with their kids, don’t handle any finances, don’t cook or clean, don’t help with picking pediatricians or therapists or summer camps or whatever. You sound like a great dad. Surely you must know it’s not the norm.

You say your wife was a SAHM for a time when the kids were little, that she probably handled potty training. Well another thing you must realize about the posters being hostile is that they are in that phase now, or close to it. They might be SAHMs who don’t feel appreciated (presumably you appreciated your wife when she did this, you sound like someone with good relationships skills). Many of the hostile posters are working moms who are doing a lot of the SAHM stuff, have deadweight husbands, and have jobs. It’s a lot. It’s different when kids are older. Yes, there’s a mental load but as you demonstrate, you can share it with your kids if you e done a good job giving them independence. It’s been a while since you experienced young kids, and it sounds like your wife handled a lot of that. So people are annoyed by the “it’s not hard” comments from you — you are comparing apples to oranges.

Also, some husbands are not only dead weight but an added burden. They have undiagnosed ADHD or personality disorders or just… issues. And their wives are accommodating that while also doing most/all the housework and childcare. If you’ve never been married to someone like this it’s hard to explain. It increases the mental load in exponential ways. Your spouse becomes like another child, only one who is hostile to your attempts to help because he often is embarrassed and defensive about his issues and wants to pretend they aren’t happening.

Again, you seem like a great dad. Your girls are lucky. I’m sorry your wife passed. You should be proud of the family you’ve built. But you don’t know what others are going through. You don’t understand because you’ve not been in the same situation. Not all parenting experiences are the same. Sometimes you just have to listen and realize you only have the answers for your questions. You haven’t solved marriage, or parenting, or life. Accept that others may struggle in ways that seem foreign to you, and that does not automatically mean they are doing it wrong.

Be that as it may, the point remains that a lot of this whining about “mental loads” is self-inflicted dysfunction, likely internalized by what they think they *should* be doing.

I also reject your assertion that the disengaged dad is the norm. I will not concede that for a minute. It certainly isn’t my experience with my circle of
Dad, ie my poker buddies. It’s actually more of a cliche and a trope. You hear it here because people with axes to grind are whining — do not confuse that with the norm. Sucks to be them, but they are the ones having deviances from the norm.

Also, there is a heavy bias toward what contributions to family life should be valued or “count” as mental load. But you are insane if you are going to assert with a straight fact that the mental load of remembering to send a nephew a gift is the same as being sure the mortgage is paid or retaining job security more broadly. Or the mental load of many other things martyr moms don’t value but are every bit as important if not more so than the relatively insignificant things they obsess about, often because they feel pressure to be in competition with other women in their communities.

Sure, remembering to pay the mortgage and other bills is a mental load! That's a great example because it's one task that's gotten a lot easier over the years. I am old enough to have had to sit down wih checkbook, stamps and a calendar, working out when to mail certain bills so the money would be in my account but also get the envelopes through the mail on time. Now we can schedule the mortgage payment and other bills easily, but signing up for camp is much more complicated (plan out the weeks, coordinate with friends, create account, sign up the day/time that registration opens, get health forms signed and uploaded, etc. etc.) Is camp as important in the long run as paying the mortgage? Of course not, but assuming your family isn't scrambling to keep a roof over your heads, then maybe someone needs to figure out what to do with the children over the summer.

Like you, I know many engaged and involved dads, but for whatever reason it's always the moms who are doing this kind of organizing behind the scenes.

Lol at the paying the mortgage stuff. I’ve set the mortgage payment on autopay. It takes the least time of any of my tasks. (Maybe once a year or less when the payment changes I have to adjust it). It takes much, much more time to figure out summer activities for the kids. I wonder what super dad’s kids would have to say about his attention to their emotional and developmental needs.

I wasn’t referring to the physical act of paying the mortgage, rather the mental stress of providing for a family in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are complicating things and you are the reason why your children need therapy. I am a working mom, and I don't do most of those things. I don't have any picky eaters because my priorities were to raise healthy kids, and not worry about Christmas cards. I don't keep track of anyone's addresses and don't send any cards (I am Christian and cards have nothing to do with Christmas). My kids are in high school and college now and we never had any professional shoots and we don't have a single photo with Santa. We never ever coordinated clothes (this sounds really crazy). I don't track birthdays for extended families, only my own family (my husband, my kids, my parents, and my sibling). I never tracked the school calendar and kids always were responsible for that. They are now pretty independent. We don't keep materials on hand (I hate clutter and I am very minimalistic) and kids learn to be creative when they need to make something last minute. Dentist and pediatrician - my husband chose them from the insurance provider's list and is close to our house. We never used therapists for children. We never chose extracurricular for kids, they were allowed to do what they like. Two kids were accepted into several Ivies. I potty trained them before they reach 1 y.o. and they didn't start daycare until the age of 3. Childcare varied over the years. We have no family around so we had to be very flexible and creative. Kids never had behavior issues. I think kids reflect your mental state, and if you are so anxious about all the things you listed, it is going to affect your kid's mental state a lot. No screen time policy as we never had cable TV or video games. Kids always were active in sport, several varsity teams.

NP here. And wow!
1. You are seriously going to blame PP for her kid's ADHD?! What is this, the 1960s?
2. If your kids are in college, then I don't think you really understand what it's like to have younger kids these days. When my older sister first talked about scheduling activities etc, I thought like you that she was nuts. And now I realize that things just don't work like they used to. Even if an elementary kid wants to play a sport, you have to sign up the day they open...or all of the slots will be gone. The HW load for even Kindergarteners is insane. We vacillate between not enforcing it and not wanting to undermine the teacher. But either way, my 5 y.o. is simply not able to manage this on his own. Neither is my 7 y.o...given how much more work she is given.
3. I don't do most of the stuff the PP talks about either (Christmas cards, matching outfits, etc)...but those aren't really the things that suck up your energy IMHO.

Sweetie, those of us in kids in college completely know what it’s like to have younger kids. There’s nothing particularly novel about “these days.” It’s just that we are FAR more experienced than you are in parenting and can put the tedium of those younger years in perspective because they are a cakewalk compared to managing teens.

[Anonymous]

This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

Perfect example! He was going to *do* it, but you had to schedule it and now schedule his replacement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

Perfect example! He was going to *do* it, but you had to schedule it and now schedule his replacement.

This would be a perfect opportunity for a kid to learn about adult life and that things happen, and sometimes go not as planned. The kid will learn not to sweat over that s..t that most women on this thread are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

Perfect example! He was going to *do* it, but you had to schedule it and now schedule his replacement.

This would be a perfect opportunity for a kid to learn about adult life and that things happen, and sometimes go not as planned. The kid will learn not to sweat over that s..t that most women on this thread are talking about.

I’m assuming this kid is what, 7 or 8, tops? You think it’s good to let a 7-year-old learn that he can’t depend on his parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

Perfect example! He was going to *do* it, but you had to schedule it and now schedule his replacement.

This would be a perfect opportunity for a kid to learn about adult life and that things happen, and sometimes go not as planned. The kid will learn not to sweat over that s..t that most women on this thread are talking about.

I’m assuming this kid is what, 7 or 8, tops? You think it’s good to let a 7-year-old learn that he can’t depend on his parents?

Depend in what way? To change his diaper? No. He is highly capable of doing it himself. Depend on me providing him with love, roof, food, and safety? Absolutely yes! Showing up in school -- it is totally optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

Perfect example! He was going to *do* it, but you had to schedule it and now schedule his replacement.

This would be a perfect opportunity for a kid to learn about adult life and that things happen, and sometimes go not as planned. The kid will learn not to sweat over that s..t that most women on this thread are talking about.

I’m assuming this kid is what, 7 or 8, tops? You think it’s good to let a 7-year-old learn that he can’t depend on his parents?

Depend in what way? To change his diaper? No. He is highly capable of doing it himself. Depend on me providing him with love, roof, food, and safety? Absolutely yes! Showing up in school -- it is totally optional.

It's not optional when you've signed up to do it. It would have been fine if he'd never signed up at all. But he did (or had his wife do it) and likely told his son he was going to do it. So at that point not showing up is a failed obligation.

Plus the whole point is that this full grown man couldn't just sign up himself (does he not have the teacher's email? access to the sign up sheet?) and then reschedule or whatever himself when he realized he had a conflict. Why is his wife acting as his secretarial assistant here? That's the part that's relevant to the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

Perfect example! He was going to *do* it, but you had to schedule it and now schedule his replacement.

This would be a perfect opportunity for a kid to learn about adult life and that things happen, and sometimes go not as planned. The kid will learn not to sweat over that s..t that most women on this thread are talking about.

I’m assuming this kid is what, 7 or 8, tops? You think it’s good to let a 7-year-old learn that he can’t depend on his parents?

Depend in what way? To change his diaper? No. He is highly capable of doing it himself. Depend on me providing him with love, roof, food, and safety? Absolutely yes! Showing up in school -- it is totally optional.

It IS optional, dude, you’re totally right. But the dad committed to doing this totally optional thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

Perfect example! He was going to *do* it, but you had to schedule it and now schedule his replacement.

This would be a perfect opportunity for a kid to learn about adult life and that things happen, and sometimes go not as planned. The kid will learn not to sweat over that s..t that most women on this thread are talking about.

I’m assuming this kid is what, 7 or 8, tops? You think it’s good to let a 7-year-old learn that he can’t depend on his parents?

Depend in what way? To change his diaper? No. He is highly capable of doing it himself. Depend on me providing him with love, roof, food, and safety? Absolutely yes! Showing up in school -- it is totally optional.

So you think honoring your commitments to your children (and modeling the importance of following through with things you sign up for) is totally optional? Of course emergencies come up on rare occasions that children should learn to adapt to, but dad should have blocked off his work calendar or at the least taken responsibility for helping schedule someone else to go in on his behalf. I think some of the parents on here referring to others as “martyrs” really only want to do the bare basics. Some of us have higher standards than just missing legally required basic needs like housing and providing food.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

Perfect example! He was going to *do* it, but you had to schedule it and now schedule his replacement.

This would be a perfect opportunity for a kid to learn about adult life and that things happen, and sometimes go not as planned. The kid will learn not to sweat over that s..t that most women on this thread are talking about.

I’m assuming this kid is what, 7 or 8, tops? You think it’s good to let a 7-year-old learn that he can’t depend on his parents?

Depend in what way? To change his diaper? No. He is highly capable of doing it himself. Depend on me providing him with love, roof, food, and safety? Absolutely yes! Showing up in school -- it is totally optional.

So you think honoring your commitments to your children (and modeling the importance of following through with things you sign up for) is totally optional? Of course emergencies come up on rare occasions that children should learn to adapt to, but dad should have blocked off his work calendar or at the least taken responsibility for helping schedule someone else to go in on his behalf. I think some of the parents on here referring to others as “martyrs” really only want to do the bare basics. Some of us have higher standards than just missing legally required basic needs like housing and providing food.

And that is great! But the bottom line is it is totally optional. As I mentioned in my previous post, my attitude helped me to raise self-sufficient children who were accepted to the top schools in the US. If you can handle all those extras without stressing yourself -- great, do it! But if all that causing stress, you are not doing a favor to your child and it is better to stick to basics. Yes, I was a mom who did not attend book reading, never was in PTA. Because I have and always had my life and my hobbies and never placed my kids or extended family on a pedestal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

Perfect example! He was going to *do* it, but you had to schedule it and now schedule his replacement.

This would be a perfect opportunity for a kid to learn about adult life and that things happen, and sometimes go not as planned. The kid will learn not to sweat over that s..t that most women on this thread are talking about.

Actually, it would have been a perfect opportunity for dad to learn about adult life and how to sign up for these things on his own. If H wants to sign up for things, respond “great. You can do so by logging into our school account”.

“I don’t know the school account website or login”

“They were emailed at the beginning of the year, perhaps it’s in your inbox”

“It’s not”

“Okay, contact the school and they’ll get you set up”.

Dad will be a whole lot more likely to remember these things if he sets them up and faces the consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminded me that my husband asked me to sign him up to be a mystery reader today. But he got called into a meeting and now can’t do it and I didn’t remember because it’s on his calendar, not mine, and now I’m scrambling to get this taken care of because our kid will be super disappointed if his parent is the only one who forgets to show up on his week.

Perfect example! He was going to *do* it, but you had to schedule it and now schedule his replacement.

This would be a perfect opportunity for a kid to learn about adult life and that things happen, and sometimes go not as planned. The kid will learn not to sweat over that s..t that most women on this thread are talking about.

Actually, it would have been a perfect opportunity for dad to learn about adult life and how to sign up for these things on his own. If H wants to sign up for things, respond “great. You can do so by logging into our school account”.

“I don’t know the school account website or login”

“They were emailed at the beginning of the year, perhaps it’s in your inbox”

“It’s not”

“Okay, contact the school and they’ll get you set up”.

Dad will be a whole lot more likely to remember these things if he sets them up and faces the consequences.

THIS. It's not about using dad's ineptitude to teach the kids a lesson. It will teach them the wrong lessons. Like that moms follow through but dads don't. Or that moms know how to do things like sign up for class stuff or reschedule if need be, but that dads need help to do those things.

I don't know if this PP is the single dad or not, but what you are not getting is that dynamics are different when there is more than one parent, and they are different when one parent is in charge of most of the kid/household stuff and the other isn't. You can say "oh well you shouldn't prioritize this optional stuff and then you won't be stressed." But you get to make that decision unilaterally as a single parent. In plenty of the marriages, dad thinks a lot of this stuff you are deeming optional is important (i.e. check the dad in this instance who feels school involvement is very important and wanted to participate) but also just drop the ball constantly and leave a lot of the logistics ("mental load") to mom. This is so common. You're situation is an outlier.