What is with DCUM women and "mental loads?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are complicating things and you are the reason why your children need therapy. I am a working mom, and I don't do most of those things. I don't have any picky eaters because my priorities were to raise healthy kids, and not worry about Christmas cards. I don't keep track of anyone's addresses and don't send any cards (I am Christian and cards have nothing to do with Christmas). My kids are in high school and college now and we never had any professional shoots and we don't have a single photo with Santa. We never ever coordinated clothes (this sounds really crazy). I don't track birthdays for extended families, only my own family (my husband, my kids, my parents, and my sibling). I never tracked the school calendar and kids always were responsible for that. They are now pretty independent. We don't keep materials on hand (I hate clutter and I am very minimalistic) and kids learn to be creative when they need to make something last minute. Dentist and pediatrician - my husband chose them from the insurance provider's list and is close to our house. We never used therapists for children. We never chose extracurricular for kids, they were allowed to do what they like. Two kids were accepted into several Ivies. I potty trained them before they reach 1 y.o. and they didn't start daycare until the age of 3. Childcare varied over the years. We have no family around so we had to be very flexible and creative. Kids never had behavior issues. I think kids reflect your mental state, and if you are so anxious about all the things you listed, it is going to affect your kid's mental state a lot. No screen time policy as we never had cable TV or video games. Kids always were active in sport, several varsity teams.

NP here. And wow!
1. You are seriously going to blame PP for her kid's ADHD?! What is this, the 1960s?
2. If your kids are in college, then I don't think you really understand what it's like to have younger kids these days. When my older sister first talked about scheduling activities etc, I thought like you that she was nuts. And now I realize that things just don't work like they used to. Even if an elementary kid wants to play a sport, you have to sign up the day they open...or all of the slots will be gone. The HW load for even Kindergarteners is insane. We vacillate between not enforcing it and not wanting to undermine the teacher. But either way, my 5 y.o. is simply not able to manage this on his own. Neither is my 7 y.o...given how much more work she is given.
3. I don't do most of the stuff the PP talks about either (Christmas cards, matching outfits, etc)...but those aren't really the things that suck up your energy IMHO.

DP. No, but if mom (or dad, for that matter) is getting anxious about setting up professional photos and coordinating outfits for a Christmas card photo, or having a "screen time policy" or picking out a pediatrician/dentist...then yes, that sounds like the kind of home that would lead to anxious kids who need a therapist. I can say that because I DO have an anxious kid and looking back, yeah, a lot of it was because I stressed over things that do.not.matter.

ADHD =/= anxiety

NP. My kid has ADHD and of course it's not my fault she has it, but yeah when I'm anxious and stressed--especially about stupid stuff like scheduling professional photos or making sure we all look perfect and coordinated--that has a significant impact on her mood, behavior, and emotions. Household chaos absolutely can impact kids' mental state a lot as pp said, especially when you have kids with issues like ADHD that make them especially vulnerable to problematic mental states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Monday was hat day at my 5 year old's school. Usually I am the one who gets the kids ready and on the bus; but I was out of town until yesterday afternoon. I get a call at noon from my daughter's teacher saying that she had to confiscate my daughter's hat and daughter is very upset (what 5 year old wouldn't be upset that their hat was taken away?!) - turns out dh had nooo idea it was hat day, dd remembered, dh was doing lord knows what and didn't help dd find a hat to wear...so she went into his closet and picked something out and put it in her backpack to bring to school. The hat? A Miller High Life logo baseball cap. Of course she didn't really know that was beer, she just liked the yellow color. And I did find it kind of funny and chuckle a bit, but also...if I were home like I normally am, I would have known it was hat day and helped dd pick out something SCHOOL-APPROPRIATE. Mental load.

Awww cute story tho.

Silly teachers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are complicating things and you are the reason why your children need therapy. I am a working mom, and I don't do most of those things. I don't have any picky eaters because my priorities were to raise healthy kids, and not worry about Christmas cards. I don't keep track of anyone's addresses and don't send any cards (I am Christian and cards have nothing to do with Christmas). My kids are in high school and college now and we never had any professional shoots and we don't have a single photo with Santa. We never ever coordinated clothes (this sounds really crazy). I don't track birthdays for extended families, only my own family (my husband, my kids, my parents, and my sibling). I never tracked the school calendar and kids always were responsible for that. They are now pretty independent. We don't keep materials on hand (I hate clutter and I am very minimalistic) and kids learn to be creative when they need to make something last minute. Dentist and pediatrician - my husband chose them from the insurance provider's list and is close to our house. We never used therapists for children. We never chose extracurricular for kids, they were allowed to do what they like. Two kids were accepted into several Ivies. I potty trained them before they reach 1 y.o. and they didn't start daycare until the age of 3. Childcare varied over the years. We have no family around so we had to be very flexible and creative. Kids never had behavior issues. I think kids reflect your mental state, and if you are so anxious about all the things you listed, it is going to affect your kid's mental state a lot. No screen time policy as we never had cable TV or video games. Kids always were active in sport, several varsity teams.

NP here. And wow!
1. You are seriously going to blame PP for her kid's ADHD?! What is this, the 1960s?
2. If your kids are in college, then I don't think you really understand what it's like to have younger kids these days. When my older sister first talked about scheduling activities etc, I thought like you that she was nuts. And now I realize that things just don't work like they used to. Even if an elementary kid wants to play a sport, you have to sign up the day they open...or all of the slots will be gone. The HW load for even Kindergarteners is insane. We vacillate between not enforcing it and not wanting to undermine the teacher. But either way, my 5 y.o. is simply not able to manage this on his own. Neither is my 7 y.o...given how much more work she is given.
3. I don't do most of the stuff the PP talks about either (Christmas cards, matching outfits, etc)...but those aren't really the things that suck up your energy IMHO.

DP. No, but if mom (or dad, for that matter) is getting anxious about setting up professional photos and coordinating outfits for a Christmas card photo, or having a "screen time policy" or picking out a pediatrician/dentist...then yes, that sounds like the kind of home that would lead to anxious kids who need a therapist. I can say that because I DO have an anxious kid and looking back, yeah, a lot of it was because I stressed over things that do.not.matter.

ADHD =/= anxiety

NP. My kid has ADHD and of course it's not my fault she has it, but yeah when I'm anxious and stressed--especially about stupid stuff like scheduling professional photos or making sure we all look perfect and coordinated--that has a significant impact on her mood, behavior, and emotions. Household chaos absolutely can impact kids' mental state a lot as pp said, especially when you have kids with issues like ADHD that make them especially vulnerable to problematic mental states.

The prior posts were clipped off, but in this particular case the PP was saying that the mom she was responding to needed to find doctor's for her kid's ADHD because she was such a stressball. I just don't think it works that way...

[Anonymous]

But I’ll bite. What’s your meal plan method (I’m assuming you have at least one picky eater; if not, give me suggestions for the too)- I spend 20 minutes on Saturday morning writing out the plan for the week

How do you keep track of addresses for your Christmas cards?-I don't do Christmas cards anymore.

Do you do a professional shoot for your Christmas card photos or just take the photos yourself? - n/a

How do you coordinate Christmas card clothing? - seriously? this is your concern? It's a friggin' Christmas card. you are putting way to much thought into this. besides, of the cards we get I like the natural ones better anyway. overly formalized match matchy professional photos..eh.

How do you keep track of birthdays for extended families? - I just remember them?

How do you decide what to get them? - I don't. no one needs or wants more crap.

Do you go through the school calendar at the beginning of the year and sync that to your calendar, or do you do it monthly? - yes, that takes all of about 3 minutes

Do you keep materials on hand for last minute school projects or do you make a last-minute target run? - my kids know better than to ask me to make a last minute target run. they ask ahead of time or use stuff we have at home.

How did you choose your kids’ dentist? - I spent 5 minutes looking through the accepted ones for our insurance, picked the one closest to our house, done.

Their pediatrician? - see above, altho also spent maybe 15 minutes looking at reviews.

How would you choose a therapist for them? - ask their pet

Woukd you put them on a king waiting list for one that takes your insurance or pay out of pocket? - insurance

How did you choose which extracurriculars your kid does? Do you expose them to lots or just sign them up for what they ask for? - just sign them up for what they ask for, no need to overthink it

When do you go through and make sure your kids have the clothing size they need? Do you just deal with that as it comes up or do it regularly every season? - deal with that as it comes up

What potty training method did you use, or did you let daycare take care of that? we're supposed to pick a specific potty training method?

What do you do for childcare and how did you settle on that? - toured a few places by our house, went with the one we liked best

How do you deal with behavioral issues and do you scan your kids for symptoms mental issues like ADHD? What do you look for? - discipline, consequences, staying consistent. no.

What is your plan for elder care when the time comes? - not sure
What is your screen time policy and how did you settle on that? - screen time *policy*? how did I "settle" on it? Holy overthinking, batman. creating a screen time policy seems unnecessary.

Do your kids get regular exercise and time outside? - yes, they spend most of their time outside.

If im complicating any of this, by all means, let me know.

[Anonymous]

I'm not even disagreeing that increased mental load for women is a real thing, but I must say the pp sounds like a parody of the hyper competitive, anxious umc nova mom we all know and "love." I mean really, spending mental energy on coordinated xmas card outfits? strategy for extracurriculars? choosing a kids dentist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not even disagreeing that increased mental load for women is a real thing, but I must say the pp sounds like a parody of the hyper competitive, anxious umc nova mom we all know and "love." I mean really, spending mental energy on coordinated xmas card outfits? strategy for extracurriculars? choosing a kids dentist?

It’s a way of gaslighting that the husband’s responsibilities are lesser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Lol at the paying the mortgage stuff. I’ve set the mortgage payment on autopay. It takes the least time of any of my tasks. (Maybe once a year or less when the payment changes I have to adjust it). It takes much, much more time to figure out summer activities for the kids. I wonder what super dad’s kids would have to say about his attention to their emotional and developmental needs.

I wasn’t referring to the physical act of paying the mortgage, rather the mental stress of providing for a family in the first place.

And it's your claim that the mental stress of providing for a family falls only on men?

Hoo-boy, as you are no doubt familiar with people saying, there in your timewarp version of reality.

Well many women whining about mental loads are stay at home mommies. So, yes, in those instances there is an inverse mental load on the man to provide.

Are you new here?

[Anonymous]

I think many of the posters in this thread are doing a poor job of describing mental load. I don’t consider doing a Christmas card or finding a pediatrician mental load. On the contrary, I love tasks like that because they can be written down and delegated between partners. Great. That’s not the mental load. It’s the making of the list. It’s suggesting to your partner that you divy it up, it waking in the middle of the night to put something on the list. And so on. Too many people are talking about the bricks (tasks) but mental load is the mortar (all the work that gets those bricks in place).

Anyway, it’s not a DCUM phenomenon. It’s been around a long time but was popularized by a French comic named Emma who created the art at this link and published a graphic non-fiction book called The Mental Load. And it’s very specific to married couples, because it’s about allocation of responsibilities. Do a single parent household doesn’t really apply— without a partner, allocation of responsibilities doesn’t need to occur, beyond outsourcing, because you know who will handle things. And you can unilaterally decide not to care about something (like holiday cards) and then literally never think about it again.

Anyway, here’s the gist:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think many of the posters in this thread are doing a poor job of describing mental load. I don’t consider doing a Christmas card or finding a pediatrician mental load. On the contrary, I love tasks like that because they can be written down and delegated between partners. Great. That’s not the mental load. It’s the making of the list. It’s suggesting to your partner that you divy it up, it waking in the middle of the night to put something on the list. And so on. Too many people are talking about the bricks (tasks) but mental load is the mortar (all the work that gets those bricks in place).

Anyway, it’s not a DCUM phenomenon. It’s been around a long time but was popularized by a French comic named Emma who created the art at this link and published a graphic non-fiction book called The Mental Load. And it’s very specific to married couples, because it’s about allocation of responsibilities. Do a single parent household doesn’t really apply— without a partner, allocation of responsibilities doesn’t need to occur, beyond outsourcing, because you know who will handle things. And you can unilaterally decide not to care about something (like holiday cards) and then literally never think about it again.

Anyway, here’s the gist:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

In what other circumstance is one person’s obsessive thinking the fault of another? This is like saying it’s a woman’s fault her stalker is obsessed with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many of the posters in this thread are doing a poor job of describing mental load. I don’t consider doing a Christmas card or finding a pediatrician mental load. On the contrary, I love tasks like that because they can be written down and delegated between partners. Great. That’s not the mental load. It’s the making of the list. It’s suggesting to your partner that you divy it up, it waking in the middle of the night to put something on the list. And so on. Too many people are talking about the bricks (tasks) but mental load is the mortar (all the work that gets those bricks in place).

Anyway, it’s not a DCUM phenomenon. It’s been around a long time but was popularized by a French comic named Emma who created the art at this link and published a graphic non-fiction book called The Mental Load. And it’s very specific to married couples, because it’s about allocation of responsibilities. Do a single parent household doesn’t really apply— without a partner, allocation of responsibilities doesn’t need to occur, beyond outsourcing, because you know who will handle things. And you can unilaterally decide not to care about something (like holiday cards) and then literally never think about it again.

Anyway, here’s the gist:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

Obsessive thinking? Did you look at the link. These aren’t obsessive thoughts. They are basically project management. Do you think it’s “obsessive thinking” when a manager at work says “ok, let’s meet Tuesday to figure out who is going to handle which aspect of next weeks presentation”? It’s literally just thinking about how to get things done and facilitating them. If that’s obsessive, best of luck to you on functioning.

In what other circumstance is one person’s obsessive thinking the fault of another? This is like saying it’s a woman’s fault her stalker is obsessed with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not even disagreeing that increased mental load for women is a real thing, but I must say the pp sounds like a parody of the hyper competitive, anxious umc nova mom we all know and "love." I mean really, spending mental energy on coordinated xmas card outfits? strategy for extracurriculars? choosing a kids dentist?

This comment shows that you have no idea what mental load is. It is not just one trivial thing like xmas outfits. It’s the collective. The whole is much greater than the sum of its parts. When you make fun of one tribal thing, it’s like saying “it’s just one little straw, what’s the big deal?” When it’s what broke their back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think many of the posters in this thread are doing a poor job of describing mental load. I don’t consider doing a Christmas card or finding a pediatrician mental load. On the contrary, I love tasks like that because they can be written down and delegated between partners. Great. That’s not the mental load. It’s the making of the list. It’s suggesting to your partner that you divy it up, it waking in the middle of the night to put something on the list. And so on. Too many people are talking about the bricks (tasks) but mental load is the mortar (all the work that gets those bricks in place).

Anyway, it’s not a DCUM phenomenon. It’s been around a long time but was popularized by a French comic named Emma who created the art at this link and published a graphic non-fiction book called The Mental Load. And it’s very specific to married couples, because it’s about allocation of responsibilities. Do a single parent household doesn’t really apply— without a partner, allocation of responsibilities doesn’t need to occur, beyond outsourcing, because you know who will handle things. And you can unilaterally decide not to care about something (like holiday cards) and then literally never think about it again.

Anyway, here’s the gist:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

This!

[Anonymous]

I was thinking about this yesterday. Lots of times when a man says “it’s not my fault that she cares about all these things that aren’t really all that important”, there’s something else going on.

Some of the things that I recall my husband suggesting we should drop during the Christmas season because we were too busy were things like having the girls go with the Girl Scouts to Christmas Carol at the nursing home, or the group of piano students who go to a home for developmentally disabled adults to play some Christmas carols while the adults Shake jingle bells.

In other words women often carry the load in terms of doing things that are good for the community and when the men say were overwhelmed what they really mean is “let’s just be selfish and do only the things that matter to ourselves” and then they pride themselves and pat themselves on the back for being so efficient.

Sometimes making a community isn’t terribly efficient but I still think it’s important that needs to be done

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Monday was hat day at my 5 year old's school. Usually I am the one who gets the kids ready and on the bus; but I was out of town until yesterday afternoon. I get a call at noon from my daughter's teacher saying that she had to confiscate my daughter's hat and daughter is very upset (what 5 year old wouldn't be upset that their hat was taken away?!) - turns out dh had nooo idea it was hat day, dd remembered, dh was doing lord knows what and didn't help dd find a hat to wear...so she went into his closet and picked something out and put it in her backpack to bring to school. The hat? A Miller High Life logo baseball cap. Of course she didn't really know that was beer, she just liked the yellow color. And I did find it kind of funny and chuckle a bit, but also...if I were home like I normally am, I would have known it was hat day and helped dd pick out something SCHOOL-APPROPRIATE. Mental load.

That’s hilarious and a story your daughter will talk about at thanksgiving in 15 years “Remember when Dad sent me to school in a Miller High Life hat in Kindergarten?” And everyone will laugh and laugh. It doesn’t matter. Your husband says “ooops sorry honey” and you move on. Kids need to learn that yeah, sometimes people mess up and you don’t get overly bummed out about it. She will have forgotten the upset by the time you read this. It doesn’t matter!!!

[Anonymous]

We have three young children and I SAH. I take care of everything kid-related. I pick the extra-curriculars, help them with their homework, drop-off/pick-up, schedule playdates, buy clothes, do laundry, grocery shop, clean, bathe the kids, get their vaccines, etc. My DH has never even met their pediatrician and definitely doesn’t know their clothing sizes. I pack his lunch and he comes home to a clean house, homework finished, fed - and bathed kids, and plays with them for an hour before dinner. I don’t mind it at all. I like a clean house and my children are happy. But if I had to work and do this? No way. Emotional labor literally didn’t exist before women worked full-time outside of the home. It was literally just “being a mom”.