Talk me off a ledge- other side of the world and just discovered cheating

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but you'll never get me to feel as much compassion for a well-off woman traveling overseas on holiday with her family who finds out, to her great surprise, that her husband, who has apparently been very loving and treated her well, has been briefly unfaithful to her, as for a war refugee. Those are different levels of "trauma," an overused word. Next we will be hearing that OP has been "gaslit."

Is everything a competition to you? News flash - you don't have to weigh everything on a scale. You can feel enormous compassion for anyone experiencing pain, whether it be due to betrayal or because they are a war refugee. It's called a dialectic, and you would seriously benefit from DBT. Life is not the pain Olympics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone really text/sext for three years straight?? I wouldn’t believe that

He probably hooked up with her right before COVID, so given that circumstance it’s not that odd.

Yes, agree. *If* he's telling the truth about the PA ceasing after the first weekend, then it was because of COVID, not because two people sending each other lovey dovey messages who've already had sex are inexplicably demonstrating self restraint in this one area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Idk what's happening to me. I'm basically in a catatonic state. I can't even think how to pack our bags and get us home.

OP your husband needs to take the lead on packing the bags and handling travel logistics. You're having a normal reaction to intense trauma. Tell him he has to do this as you are simply unable to handle it right now.

Just get home, OP. That's all you need to do right now.

Intense trauma is from surviving a natural disaster, fighting in a war, medical problem etc. NOT your husband texting someone else.

This is completely wrong from a medical and psychological perspective. Yes, those events are traumatic and survivors often have a trauma response, but trauma is about the lasting impact that an experience has on you. With complex trauma it can even be an ongoing experience or lack of a type of an experience (think emotional or physical neglect of a child for years etc).

Sorry, but you'll never get me to feel as much compassion for a well-off woman traveling overseas on holiday with her family who finds out, to her great surprise, that her husband, who has apparently been very loving and treated her well, has been briefly unfaithful to her, as for a war refugee. Those are different levels of "trauma," an overused word. Next we will be hearing that OP has been "gaslit."

The degree of compassion you feel or don't is irrelevant.

+1.

This is real human being experiencing something that has rightfully shaken her and exploded her world. The fact that it's not the worst thing that ever happened to anybody is irrelevant, and your need to pontificate on it instead of offering support reveals something about you, not OP.

[Anonymous]

Thinking of you, OP. I am one month post-discovery and am still numb. Don't feel bad for a second that you are not functioning well. This is absolutely an intense trauma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thinking of you, OP. I am one month post-discovery and am still numb. Don't feel bad for a second that you are not functioning well. This is absolutely an intense trauma.

I'm sorry you are in the same boat. What's it like one month out?

[Anonymous]

OP, I forgot to add in my earlier comment that I am 2 years out and I'm soo much better than I was that first year. I still get triggered and ruminate but the intensity is no where near what it was before.

I decided to stay but did not make any firm decision in the immediate aftermath of discovery. A few of the things that helped me decide to stay--DH left old job and new job that he took no longer has travel. DH did intense individual therapy and alcohol recovery program. Signed a very favorable postnup with a cheating clause.

Looking back, I know staying for now was the right decision. My children, particularly teenager, were going through a difficult time and I think a separation would have been very rough. I found the capacity to forgive and to try to rebuild our relationship but I also know now the strength that I have and absolutely know the course that I would take if this happened again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, regarding using your SIL (his sister) as a sounding board right now -- please refrain for the moment. Your feelings are very raw. You and she are close and I do not doubt you when you say that, but you also are now in what are totally uncharted waters for you. This news affects not only your marriage but also your relationship with his family, HIS relationship with his family and much more. Ripples after ripples across what was a calm, happy surface of amarriage. I know you love and value your SIL and see her as a close friend, which is great, but you also may not be able to predict how she will react, or what she will feel she must pass along to your DH, if you turn to her for solace and support. I am not saying she'd side with him or betray you, but I'm saying she will be as gobsmacked as you are and may find it hard to believe, if she's close to him too, that her brother has done this exactly as you'll describe it to her.

Your mother is your friend, you note, but honestly, I would turn to a friend rather than anyone in either family, first. Yes, soon you will be confiding in your mother, but for now, is there anyone you can contact who is a reliable ear and a completely shut mouth, who has NO stake in this except as your friend? Because even loving mother and SIL do have stakes, and SIL's could be complicated ones. You need someone who is stakes free and who isn't going to potentially go off on DH (your mom?) or ask DH for his version right now (SIL). Someone outside the circle.

Thinking of you and hoping you have a safe, uneventful trip back home with his phone shut off and firmly in YOUR pocket the whole time. Or else he's lying and is still in contact.

Agree that OP should not contact any of her in-laws. For all she knows, DH confided in his sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I forgot to add in my earlier comment that I am 2 years out and I'm soo much better than I was that first year. I still get triggered and ruminate but the intensity is no where near what it was before.

I decided to stay but did not make any firm decision in the immediate aftermath of discovery. A few of the things that helped me decide to stay--DH left old job and new job that he took no longer has travel. DH did intense individual therapy and alcohol recovery program. Signed a very favorable postnup with a cheating clause.

Looking back, I know staying for now was the right decision. My children, particularly teenager, were going through a difficult time and I think a separation would have been very rough. I found the capacity to forgive and to try to rebuild our relationship but I also know now the strength that I have and absolutely know the course that I would take if this happened again.

Do you still plan to stay once your kids are off to college?

[Anonymous]

Agree that OP should not contact any of her in-laws. For all she knows, DH confided in his sister.

Except that SIL is not DH's sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, as someone who has also been through this myself (still married 12 years later), I put a lot more stock in the advice of those of us who have been there. It’s real easy to say you’d end it and walk, but when you’re facing down divorce with two young kids and you have a husband who made a terrible mistake and is doing everything he can to show you he’s deeply regretful, it’s not so easy.

Your choice is no longer unfaithful husband versus faithful one. Your choice is now this husband as he is OR divorce with shared custody and a more tenuous financial situation. I wouldn’t blame you for choosing divorce, but choose it carefully.

I have to point out that it's not 'a mistake' OP's DH made. It's a regular mistake over a 3 year period. That's a long standing pattern. She also doesn't really know that it was sex on a single trip. She only knows what he has confessed so far. Maybe your experience with a cheating spouse is different but many of us are familiar with the slow trickle of admissions that comes when there is no other choice. And, finally, OP's DH has not done everything he can to show he's remorseful. It's only a few days since he was caught.

Oh I was talking about my situation. But your point is consistent with mine - there are many many shades of gray on this. It’s not so easy as cheating = divorce and everyone has to figure out where their line is when they’re actually in it. As someone who had two young kids, my line was a lot more lenient than it would have been if I didn’t have kids for example. I had a husband who was extremely remorseful and did everything he could to regain my trust. And no it didn’t all come out right away, I learned the trith over a period of week or so because it was so traumatic, to some degree for him too.

I think my main thing is that OP (and others) should take no stock in the “I would leave anyone that cheats on my, period” people. If you haven’t been there, you have no idea.

NP here, but I'm one of the people who says that cheaters typically do not change their stripes, and not without a massive amount of emotional investment that most people are not willing to do. Like you, I was cheated on and chose to stay, and like you it was for the sake of our children. Like you, I thought my partner was remorseful and would have said he did "all the right things."

Unlike you, I found out after 15 years of marriage that the first affair (the one I found out about three years in) was not the first, and that he'd been unfaithful multiple times since then. When I tell you I had no idea, that's an understatement. He was utterly transparent with me, we often used each other's phones just out of convenience, knew each other's friends, visited each other's places of employment. Not only did I not suspect cheating, I would have said it was impossible if you'd asked. I would have said the first time was an abberation, the result of freaking out about becoming a father, and that he'd done the work to fix it. It was all a lie.

So I tell people like the OP to get out because I'm speaking from a place of experience. Someone who can carry on a three-year deception is someone who fundamentally disrespects his partner, and his children, and everyone who he's lied to in that time. He has spent time, money, and emotional energy that he could have invested in his wife and family, and he was not remorseful until the very moment he got caught. You just can't fix that level of broken, and OP is better off learning that now than investing any more time trying to fix someone who just doesn't have the emotional tools for monogamy.

How did he manage to do it??

If I discovered cheating, the bolded is what I would be most upset about, more than the actual sex (unless he gave me an STD or got someone pg). In our already time-poor life, you take up THIS hobby?!?!

[Anonymous]

I’m so sorry op. No advice just empathy. I think for me the worst part would not be sex or sexting; it’s the deception and all that energy going not into your marriage and family but to someone else. That to me is the worst part of infidelity, the emotional betrayal. People who go this usually have weak inner cores, weak character. Sometimes they grow from this and sometimes they don’t. Whatever the case the marriage you had is over. You either build a new one, hopefully with radical honesty or you end it but for now just get home, no decisions now. And it will probably take a while to figure out what you want to do. I would advocate for him moving out for a while though as maybe you need some space. Hugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I forgot to add in my earlier comment that I am 2 years out and I'm soo much better than I was that first year. I still get triggered and ruminate but the intensity is no where near what it was before.

I decided to stay but did not make any firm decision in the immediate aftermath of discovery. A few of the things that helped me decide to stay--DH left old job and new job that he took no longer has travel. DH did intense individual therapy and alcohol recovery program. Signed a very favorable postnup with a cheating clause.

Looking back, I know staying for now was the right decision. My children, particularly teenager, were going through a difficult time and I think a separation would have been very rough. I found the capacity to forgive and to try to rebuild our relationship but I also know now the strength that I have and absolutely know the course that I would take if this happened again.

Do you still plan to stay once your kids are off to college?

We are doing really well now but I have stopped making life long plans. I literally take it one year at a time. I never would have imagined that my DH would have been capable of what he did and now it genuinely seems like he is really committed to our marriage, our children are thriving, and we communicate so much better now. But still, I will never have 100% confidence in any relationship the way I did earlier. I think of it more now as yes, we love each other and our family unit works really well but my long term plans with him are of course dependent on his actions. I found the capacity to forgive once but I know that if anything like this were to happen again then I would leave. I've also been much more cognizant of not taking the back seat anymore when it comes to my own career security, financial independence, and personal network.

I know several couples who have survived infidelity and are doing well but an experience like this, especially when it is so unexpected and seemingly out of character, changes you forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I forgot to add in my earlier comment that I am 2 years out and I'm soo much better than I was that first year. I still get triggered and ruminate but the intensity is no where near what it was before.

I decided to stay but did not make any firm decision in the immediate aftermath of discovery. A few of the things that helped me decide to stay--DH left old job and new job that he took no longer has travel. DH did intense individual therapy and alcohol recovery program. Signed a very favorable postnup with a cheating clause.

Looking back, I know staying for now was the right decision. My children, particularly teenager, were going through a difficult time and I think a separation would have been very rough. I found the capacity to forgive and to try to rebuild our relationship but I also know now the strength that I have and absolutely know the course that I would take if this happened again.

Do you still plan to stay once your kids are off to college?

We are doing really well now but I have stopped making life long plans. I literally take it one year at a time. I never would have imagined that my DH would have been capable of what he did and now it genuinely seems like he is really committed to our marriage, our children are thriving, and we communicate so much better now. But still, I will never have 100% confidence in any relationship the way I did earlier. I think of it more now as yes, we love each other and our family unit works really well but my long term plans with him are of course dependent on his actions. I found the capacity to forgive once but I know that if anything like this were to happen again then I would leave. I've also been much more cognizant of not taking the back seat anymore when it comes to my own career security, financial independence, and personal network.

I know several couples who have survived infidelity and are doing well but an experience like this, especially when it is so unexpected and seemingly out of character, changes you forever.

I have not dealt with infidelity but this is how i have always thought about relationships. Hope for the best, but have a backup plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Idk what's happening to me. I'm basically in a catatonic state. I can't even think how to pack our bags and get us home.

OP your husband needs to take the lead on packing the bags and handling travel logistics. You're having a normal reaction to intense trauma. Tell him he has to do this as you are simply unable to handle it right now.

Just get home, OP. That's all you need to do right now.

Intense trauma is from surviving a natural disaster, fighting in a war, medical problem etc. NOT your husband texting someone else.

This is completely wrong from a medical and psychological perspective. Yes, those events are traumatic and survivors often have a trauma response, but trauma is about the lasting impact that an experience has on you. With complex trauma it can even be an ongoing experience or lack of a type of an experience (think emotional or physical neglect of a child for years etc).

Sorry, but you'll never get me to feel as much compassion for a well-off woman traveling overseas on holiday with her family who finds out, to her great surprise, that her husband, who has apparently been very loving and treated her well, has been briefly unfaithful to her, as for a war refugee. Those are different levels of "trauma," an overused word. Next we will be hearing that OP has been "gaslit."

PP here. Wow, first of all, you are right in the sense that these are different levels or types of trauma. Categorically, not all illness, diagnosis, experiences are the same, and some are more severe in terms of the damage or impact etc…

That being said, compassion is not a zero sum exercise. It can exist wholly and separately on its own for each life experience or individual. When I read your comment what comes up for me is that there is judgment, scarcity and a lack of compassion.

There is exactly extensive literature on trauma. Maybe mainstream wise you have found it to be “overused” as a term, but it is fascinating and trauma can be scientifically tracked in numerous places in peoples body from epigenetics in dna from children of trauma survivors (who amazingly never had the trauma themselves but their parents trauma and ensuing ptsd actually left a marker on their dna! Cite Dr. Rachel Yehuda and children of Holocaust surivivors), to amygdala over function adults who experienced neglect as children.

Anyway, your comment is ignorant and judgmental at best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Idk what's happening to me. I'm basically in a catatonic state. I can't even think how to pack our bags and get us home.

OP your husband needs to take the lead on packing the bags and handling travel logistics. You're having a normal reaction to intense trauma. Tell him he has to do this as you are simply unable to handle it right now.

Just get home, OP. That's all you need to do right now.

Intense trauma is from surviving a natural disaster, fighting in a war, medical problem etc. NOT your husband texting someone else.

This is completely wrong from a medical and psychological perspective. Yes, those events are traumatic and survivors often have a trauma response, but trauma is about the lasting impact that an experience has on you. With complex trauma it can even be an ongoing experience or lack of a type of an experience (think emotional or physical neglect of a child for years etc).

Sorry, but you'll never get me to feel as much compassion for a well-off woman traveling overseas on holiday with her family who finds out, to her great surprise, that her husband, who has apparently been very loving and treated her well, has been briefly unfaithful to her, as for a war refugee. Those are different levels of "trauma," an overused word. Next we will be hearing that OP has been "gaslit."

PP here. Wow, first of all, you are right in the sense that these are different levels or types of trauma. Categorically, not all illness, diagnosis, experiences are the same, and some are more severe in terms of the damage or impact etc…

That being said, compassion is not a zero sum exercise. It can exist wholly and separately on its own for each life experience or individual. When I read your comment what comes up for me is that there is judgment, scarcity and a lack of compassion.

There is exactly extensive literature on trauma. Maybe mainstream wise you have found it to be “overused” as a term, but it is fascinating and trauma can be scientifically tracked in numerous places in peoples body from epigenetics in dna from children of trauma survivors (who amazingly never had the trauma themselves but their parents trauma and ensuing ptsd actually left a marker on their dna! Cite Dr. Rachel Yehuda and children of Holocaust surivivors), to amygdala over function adults who experienced neglect as children.

Anyway, your comment is ignorant and judgmental at best.

+1. As someone who worked with war IDPs, refugees and victims of war crimes and lived in a war zone - life is not a pain olympics - it is human nature to compare. But, is the trauma of a war refugee less than (and thus less worthy of our empathy and help) than that of someone who couldn’t escape? who is more worthy of having their trauma honored - someone who lost a father? a brother? a child? someone who lost 1 member of their family? or 3? or 48? someone who found their dead loved one or someone whose loved one is missing?

If you truly knew war, you would understand how silly and shallow your comparison is and the way you use it to denigrate OP’s trauma. Shame on you. Infidelity is a serious betrayal trauma that can cause complex PTSD.