Friend with bad child being iced out of friend group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the whole thread. But all I want to say is, the moral and ethical values that we claim to espouse do not always apply when things are easy. In fact they are intended to apply when things are hard. “It takes a village to raise a child.” “Visit the sick and imprisoned.” “I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners.” Do unto others. Every major faith and ethical code calls for helping those who struggle.

That doesn’t mean that anyone has to put their children or their sconces at risk. But it does mean that you ought to make some effort to support a family in a tough situation.

+1

But I do not think the people who think OP should sever ties would agree, especially the ones who got their posts deleted because of how awful they were about kids with disabilities.

Wow. Those posts must have been pretty bad.

m

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

Seems like the trolls are still here. Just a little more subtle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

No, you model being inclusive and supportive of others while protecting your own kids.

Where were the adults? Why were kids running around unsupervised?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the whole thread. But all I want to say is, the moral and ethical values that we claim to espouse do not always apply when things are easy. In fact they are intended to apply when things are hard. “It takes a village to raise a child.” “Visit the sick and imprisoned.” “I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners.” Do unto others. Every major faith and ethical code calls for helping those who struggle.

That doesn’t mean that anyone has to put their children or their sconces at risk. But it does mean that you ought to make some effort to support a family in a tough situation.

+1

But I do not think the people who think OP should sever ties would agree, especially the ones who got their posts deleted because of how awful they were about kids with disabilities.

Wow. Those posts must have been pretty bad.

m

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

Seems like the trolls are still here. Just a little more subtle.

Repeating the same lame strawman over & over again is trollish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the whole thread. But all I want to say is, the moral and ethical values that we claim to espouse do not always apply when things are easy. In fact they are intended to apply when things are hard. “It takes a village to raise a child.” “Visit the sick and imprisoned.” “I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners.” Do unto others. Every major faith and ethical code calls for helping those who struggle.

That doesn’t mean that anyone has to put their children or their sconces at risk. But it does mean that you ought to make some effort to support a family in a tough situation.

+1

But I do not think the people who think OP should sever ties would agree, especially the ones who got their posts deleted because of how awful they were about kids with disabilities.

Wow. Those posts must have been pretty bad.

m

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

Seems like the trolls are still here. Just a little more subtle.

Repeating the same lame strawman over & over again is trollish.

Since I am a new poster I am not repeating myself and obviously there’s a group of people who share the same views

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

Currently children hanging out with this boy are literally punching bags.

And there are zero options aside from icing them out?

Do you even have kids?

Yes I do. Unless this boy’s parents are committed to keeping an eye on him and making sure he is not destructive, which doesn’t seem to be happening, the natural consequence is that they will be iced out despite the protests here. He needs at least one parent following him throughout the entire social event.

Sure. And where was OP when all of this was happening? Was it an unsupervised play date?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

No, you model being inclusive and supportive of others while protecting your own kids.

Where were the adults? Why were kids running around unsupervised?

You mean where were the boy’s parents. It’s their responsibility, not the other adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

This is not the same as OP's situation at all. In this case, your parents knew about your aunt's behavior and made sure that you were always protected. They probably explained to you why your aunt was different. An equivalent situation would be if you had unruly cousins that you visited with and the parents left all the kids unsupervised and your cousins hit you repeatedly.

DP. I disagree. It is absolutely analogous. I agree with the other PP you responded to, and not coincidentally, I also grew up with a family member with disabilities that caused me to experience discomfort at times, and I was taught how to deal with it. I learned as a child that sometimes you encounter people who don’t act predictably, who have trouble controlling their limbs, who might say weird things.

So many parents in this thread are bound and determined to make sure their child never encounters a human who ever makes them feel any sense of discomfort whatsoever. It feels like the same people who jeered at my aunt, who made fun of me because my aunt was “weird,” who are cruel to the kid who has outbursts. It’s disheartening how little compassion PPs have.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MILD SOCIAL DISCOMFORT AND PHYSICAL DISCOMFORT DUE TO BEING HIT. Why are you refusing to grasp this very, very simple concept?

So the only options are letting OP’s kid get hit or ice them out? GTFO.

Right back at you, hon. If the kid's parents are unwilling or unable to stop him from getting violent with other kids, then yes, the options are for OP to let her kid get hit or stop forcing her DD to be with this boy. Magical thinking is not going to prevent OP's kid from getting hit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the whole thread. But all I want to say is, the moral and ethical values that we claim to espouse do not always apply when things are easy. In fact they are intended to apply when things are hard. “It takes a village to raise a child.” “Visit the sick and imprisoned.” “I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners.” Do unto others. Every major faith and ethical code calls for helping those who struggle.

That doesn’t mean that anyone has to put their children or their sconces at risk. But it does mean that you ought to make some effort to support a family in a tough situation.

+1

But I do not think the people who think OP should sever ties would agree, especially the ones who got their posts deleted because of how awful they were about kids with disabilities.

Wow. Those posts must have been pretty bad.

m

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

Seems like the trolls are still here. Just a little more subtle.

Repeating the same lame strawman over & over again is trollish.

Since I am a new poster I am not repeating myself and obviously there’s a group of people who share the same views

Repeating the same lame strawman that other people posted is also trollish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

Currently children hanging out with this boy are literally punching bags.

And there are zero options aside from icing them out?

Do you even have kids?

Yes I do. Unless this boy’s parents are committed to keeping an eye on him and making sure he is not destructive, which doesn’t seem to be happening, the natural consequence is that they will be iced out despite the protests here. He needs at least one parent following him throughout the entire social event.

Sure. And where was OP when all of this was happening? Was it an unsupervised play date?

Sounds like you are the one without kids because for play dates of that age you usually can just let the kids group and play together while the other adults mingle. Obviously this boy is disruptive and it is on his parents to supervise since the other children can play independently. If they can’t watch the boy they are disrupting the social gathering and obviously moving forward the boy would not be invited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

No, you model being inclusive and supportive of others while protecting your own kids.

Where were the adults? Why were kids running around unsupervised?

You mean where were the boy’s parents. It’s their responsibility, not the other adults.

Depends on the situation. If OP was hosting a play date why was she letting the kids run around unsupervised?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the whole thread. But all I want to say is, the moral and ethical values that we claim to espouse do not always apply when things are easy. In fact they are intended to apply when things are hard. “It takes a village to raise a child.” “Visit the sick and imprisoned.” “I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners.” Do unto others. Every major faith and ethical code calls for helping those who struggle.

That doesn’t mean that anyone has to put their children or their sconces at risk. But it does mean that you ought to make some effort to support a family in a tough situation.

+1

But I do not think the people who think OP should sever ties would agree, especially the ones who got their posts deleted because of how awful they were about kids with disabilities.

Wow. Those posts must have been pretty bad.

m

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

Seems like the trolls are still here. Just a little more subtle.

No, I don’t think they are trolls. They aren’t posting just for effect, like a troll. They actually feel this way and believe what they are saying. Which is worse than being a run-of-the-mill troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

Currently children hanging out with this boy are literally punching bags.

And there are zero options aside from icing them out?

Do you even have kids?

Yes I do. Unless this boy’s parents are committed to keeping an eye on him and making sure he is not destructive, which doesn’t seem to be happening, the natural consequence is that they will be iced out despite the protests here. He needs at least one parent following him throughout the entire social event.

Sure. And where was OP when all of this was happening? Was it an unsupervised play date?

Sounds like you are the one without kids because for play dates of that age you usually can just let the kids group and play together while the other adults mingle. Obviously this boy is disruptive and it is on his parents to supervise since the other children can play independently. If they can’t watch the boy they are disrupting the social gathering and obviously moving forward the boy would not be invited.

Sounds like the kid is 5-6-ish. And it was the first playdate she hosted with him.

Of course she should be supervising if there weren’t any other adults there. Maybe not in the room but certainly listening in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the whole thread. But all I want to say is, the moral and ethical values that we claim to espouse do not always apply when things are easy. In fact they are intended to apply when things are hard. “It takes a village to raise a child.” “Visit the sick and imprisoned.” “I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners.” Do unto others. Every major faith and ethical code calls for helping those who struggle.

That doesn’t mean that anyone has to put their children or their sconces at risk. But it does mean that you ought to make some effort to support a family in a tough situation.

+1

But I do not think the people who think OP should sever ties would agree, especially the ones who got their posts deleted because of how awful they were about kids with disabilities.

Wow. Those posts must have been pretty bad.

m

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

Seems like the trolls are still here. Just a little more subtle.

No, I don’t think they are trolls. They aren’t posting just for effect, like a troll. They actually feel this way and believe what they are saying. Which is worse than being a run-of-the-mill troll.

I’m not convinced they are parents if they don’t understand how play dates work for early elementary kids.