Friend with bad child being iced out of friend group

[Anonymous]

I think this is one of those times where kind half honesty is best. Ghosting is a cowards way out. Tell your friend that their kiddo is just too “active” and not getting along with your kids right now. But that you want to be friends still, and maybe you guys can get together at parks or just moms. If that’s upsetting to her, so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the whole thread. But all I want to say is, the moral and ethical values that we claim to espouse do not always apply when things are easy. In fact they are intended to apply when things are hard. “It takes a village to raise a child.” “Visit the sick and imprisoned.” “I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners.” Do unto others. Every major faith and ethical code calls for helping those who struggle.

That doesn’t mean that anyone has to put their children or their sconces at risk. But it does mean that you ought to make some effort to support a family in a tough situation.

+1

But I do not think the people who think OP should sever ties would agree, especially the ones who got their posts deleted because of how awful they were about kids with disabilities.

Wow. Those posts must have been pretty bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Likely the play tme is running a bit too long for the kid. How long are your get-togethers? Does his acting out start the minute he arrives, or does it begin surfacing after 45 to an hour, or longer? If it takes awhile, then he's reached his limit and maxxed out on sensory overload.

One of my kids was like that, and I had to watch closely for when she was ramping up toward meltdown, and we would go home before that point. We might be there for one hour and then sorry, we have to get going. Some children are just more sentitive to stimuli -- maybe they're a tiny bit on the spectrum, etc. -- and they melt down after too much exposure time to social chaos, loudness, etc.

Since this is a friend's child, you might gently hint that maybe her son is getting tired and needs to go home?

Better yet, limit these get-togethers to OUTSIDE the house, at a local park with a nice playground, where he cannot do damage to anyone's home. That's a no-brainer that should have already happened here. Put on a coat, meet at the playground.

If this mom is showing up, the gathering is going to be outside.

I would encourage you to find ways not to drop this mom, who is probably rather isolated already due to her son's behavior.

Not to pick on you, but this is an example of a post that puts OP's DD in a situation that she doesnt want to be in, to make either OP or the other mom, or the other kid feel better.

Unless you're suggesting that OP meet at a playground but not bring her DD?

+ 1.

NP. Question for both of you: do you believe your child should never encounter situations she doesn’t want to be in? It is sentiments like this that lead to the massive anxiety problems in young adults that other PPs have referred to. I think a lot of parents genuinely believe their kids should never encounter a “bad” kid, or a challenging interaction, and they become wildly unprepared for adulthood.

I get the sense a lot of PPs who are telling OP to cut off the relationship haven’t seen the outcomes in teens these days. They are so fragile.

Do you know what leads to bigger problems in young adults? It's teaching girls that it's perfectly normal for boys to hit them, the hitting must be rug swept, and they need to continue being around the person who is hitting them.

OP's DD handled this perfectly. She was in a situation she didn't like and then expressed a boundary she'd like to have. The worst thing OP could do would be to ignore DD's stated boundary and force her to play with someone who is hitting her, just so OP doesn't have to rock the boat.

In the OP, there was no mention of the DD expressing any discomfort or stating boundaries or asking for the boy to go away and not come back. OP posted again several times on the thread but I didn't see any posts saying that.

You're putting words in the DD's mouth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

This is not the same as OP's situation at all. In this case, your parents knew about your aunt's behavior and made sure that you were always protected. They probably explained to you why your aunt was different. An equivalent situation would be if you had unruly cousins that you visited with and the parents left all the kids unsupervised and your cousins hit you repeatedly.

DP. I disagree. It is absolutely analogous. I agree with the other PP you responded to, and not coincidentally, I also grew up with a family member with disabilities that caused me to experience discomfort at times, and I was taught how to deal with it. I learned as a child that sometimes you encounter people who don’t act predictably, who have trouble controlling their limbs, who might say weird things.

So many parents in this thread are bound and determined to make sure their child never encounters a human who ever makes them feel any sense of discomfort whatsoever. It feels like the same people who jeered at my aunt, who made fun of me because my aunt was “weird,” who are cruel to the kid who has outbursts. It’s disheartening how little compassion PPs have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

This is not the same as OP's situation at all. In this case, your parents knew about your aunt's behavior and made sure that you were always protected. They probably explained to you why your aunt was different. An equivalent situation would be if you had unruly cousins that you visited with and the parents left all the kids unsupervised and your cousins hit you repeatedly.

DP. They probably didn't. People didn't explain everything back-in-the-day, especially not to kids. Kids figured it out (or didn't).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Likely the play tme is running a bit too long for the kid. How long are your get-togethers? Does his acting out start the minute he arrives, or does it begin surfacing after 45 to an hour, or longer? If it takes awhile, then he's reached his limit and maxxed out on sensory overload.

One of my kids was like that, and I had to watch closely for when she was ramping up toward meltdown, and we would go home before that point. We might be there for one hour and then sorry, we have to get going. Some children are just more sentitive to stimuli -- maybe they're a tiny bit on the spectrum, etc. -- and they melt down after too much exposure time to social chaos, loudness, etc.

Since this is a friend's child, you might gently hint that maybe her son is getting tired and needs to go home?

Better yet, limit these get-togethers to OUTSIDE the house, at a local park with a nice playground, where he cannot do damage to anyone's home. That's a no-brainer that should have already happened here. Put on a coat, meet at the playground.

If this mom is showing up, the gathering is going to be outside.

I would encourage you to find ways not to drop this mom, who is probably rather isolated already due to her son's behavior.

Not to pick on you, but this is an example of a post that puts OP's DD in a situation that she doesnt want to be in, to make either OP or the other mom, or the other kid feel better.

Unless you're suggesting that OP meet at a playground but not bring her DD?

+ 1.

NP. Question for both of you: do you believe your child should never encounter situations she doesn’t want to be in? It is sentiments like this that lead to the massive anxiety problems in young adults that other PPs have referred to. I think a lot of parents genuinely believe their kids should never encounter a “bad” kid, or a challenging interaction, and they become wildly unprepared for adulthood.

I get the sense a lot of PPs who are telling OP to cut off the relationship haven’t seen the outcomes in teens these days. They are so fragile.

Do you know what leads to bigger problems in young adults? It's teaching girls that it's perfectly normal for boys to hit them, the hitting must be rug swept, and they need to continue being around the person who is hitting them.

OP's DD handled this perfectly. She was in a situation she didn't like and then expressed a boundary she'd like to have. The worst thing OP could do would be to ignore DD's stated boundary and force her to play with someone who is hitting her, just so OP doesn't have to rock the boat.

In the OP, there was no mention of the DD expressing any discomfort or stating boundaries or asking for the boy to go away and not come back. OP posted again several times on the thread but I didn't see any posts saying that.

You're putting words in the DD's mouth.

You should learn to read more carefully.

OP said this at the top of page 2 in the thread:
"My daughter is in kindergarten now and hers is in 1st grade. I would never do a one on one with her with just our youngest children. The boy is the only kid that my daughter protests to see anyways. I have never heard her complain or refuse to hang out with anyone except this boy."

The DD is expressing a boundary. She does not want to be around this boy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

This is not the same as OP's situation at all. In this case, your parents knew about your aunt's behavior and made sure that you were always protected. They probably explained to you why your aunt was different. An equivalent situation would be if you had unruly cousins that you visited with and the parents left all the kids unsupervised and your cousins hit you repeatedly.

DP. I disagree. It is absolutely analogous. I agree with the other PP you responded to, and not coincidentally, I also grew up with a family member with disabilities that caused me to experience discomfort at times, and I was taught how to deal with it. I learned as a child that sometimes you encounter people who don’t act predictably, who have trouble controlling their limbs, who might say weird things.

So many parents in this thread are bound and determined to make sure their child never encounters a human who ever makes them feel any sense of discomfort whatsoever. It feels like the same people who jeered at my aunt, who made fun of me because my aunt was “weird,” who are cruel to the kid who has outbursts. It’s disheartening how little compassion PPs have.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MILD SOCIAL DISCOMFORT AND PHYSICAL DISCOMFORT DUE TO BEING HIT. Why are you refusing to grasp this very, very simple concept?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

+1000 girls need to be taught to set good boundaries. OP’s daughter does not need to be with a boy she feels uncomfortable with out of “inclusivity” or “empathy”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

Currently children hanging out with this boy are literally punching bags.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

This is not the same as OP's situation at all. In this case, your parents knew about your aunt's behavior and made sure that you were always protected. They probably explained to you why your aunt was different. An equivalent situation would be if you had unruly cousins that you visited with and the parents left all the kids unsupervised and your cousins hit you repeatedly.

DP. I disagree. It is absolutely analogous. I agree with the other PP you responded to, and not coincidentally, I also grew up with a family member with disabilities that caused me to experience discomfort at times, and I was taught how to deal with it. I learned as a child that sometimes you encounter people who don’t act predictably, who have trouble controlling their limbs, who might say weird things.

So many parents in this thread are bound and determined to make sure their child never encounters a human who ever makes them feel any sense of discomfort whatsoever. It feels like the same people who jeered at my aunt, who made fun of me because my aunt was “weird,” who are cruel to the kid who has outbursts. It’s disheartening how little compassion PPs have.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MILD SOCIAL DISCOMFORT AND PHYSICAL DISCOMFORT DUE TO BEING HIT. Why are you refusing to grasp this very, very simple concept?

So the only options are letting OP’s kid get hit or ice them out? GTFO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

Currently children hanging out with this boy are literally punching bags.

And there are zero options aside from icing them out?

Do you even have kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the whole thread. But all I want to say is, the moral and ethical values that we claim to espouse do not always apply when things are easy. In fact they are intended to apply when things are hard. “It takes a village to raise a child.” “Visit the sick and imprisoned.” “I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners.” Do unto others. Every major faith and ethical code calls for helping those who struggle.

That doesn’t mean that anyone has to put their children or their sconces at risk. But it does mean that you ought to make some effort to support a family in a tough situation.

+1

But I do not think the people who think OP should sever ties would agree, especially the ones who got their posts deleted because of how awful they were about kids with disabilities.

Wow. Those posts must have been pretty bad.

Seems like the trolls are still here. Just a little more subtle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

Currently children hanging out with this boy are literally punching bags.

And there are zero options aside from icing them out?

Do you even have kids?

Yes I do. Unless this boy’s parents are committed to keeping an eye on him and making sure he is not destructive, which doesn’t seem to be happening, the natural consequence is that they will be iced out despite the protests here. He needs at least one parent following him throughout the entire social event.