Friend with bad child being iced out of friend group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

No, you model being inclusive and supportive of others while protecting your own kids.

Where were the adults? Why were kids running around unsupervised?

You mean where were the boy’s parents. It’s their responsibility, not the other adults.

Depends on the situation. If OP was hosting a play date why was she letting the kids run around unsupervised?

Why would OP even want to "host a playdate" if the expectation is that OP needs to watch all of the kids like a hawk. If a 1st grader needs that level of supervision, it's on the parents to either provide it or at least let the host know that the child needs to be watched like a toddler.

Also, if you invite an entire family to your house, why would you be expected to parent everyone else's children? I would be so uncomfortable with parenting someone else's child when they're sitting right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

No, you model being inclusive and supportive of others while protecting your own kids.

Where were the adults? Why were kids running around unsupervised?

You mean where were the boy’s parents. It’s their responsibility, not the other adults.

Depends on the situation. If OP was hosting a play date why was she letting the kids run around unsupervised?

Why would OP even want to "host a playdate" if the expectation is that OP needs to watch all of the kids like a hawk. If a 1st grader needs that level of supervision, it's on the parents to either provide it or at least let the host know that the child needs to be watched like a toddler.

Also, if you invite an entire family to your house, why would you be expected to parent everyone else's children? I would be so uncomfortable with parenting someone else's child when they're sitting right there.

Was it the entire family? She said she hosted a play date, not a family gathering.

The first time you have a new kid around for a playdate at that age you loosely supervise and step in where necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

This is not the same as OP's situation at all. In this case, your parents knew about your aunt's behavior and made sure that you were always protected. They probably explained to you why your aunt was different. An equivalent situation would be if you had unruly cousins that you visited with and the parents left all the kids unsupervised and your cousins hit you repeatedly.

DP. They probably didn't. People didn't explain everything back-in-the-day, especially not to kids. Kids figured it out (or didn't).

+1 And they learned to navigate a world where their world wasn’t perfectly curated. I don’t want to over-praise the past — obviously there were a lot of issues — but this thread is filled with the exact sort of snowplow parents who curate every little experience their kids ever have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

No, you model being inclusive and supportive of others while protecting your own kids.

Where were the adults? Why were kids running around unsupervised?

You mean where were the boy’s parents. It’s their responsibility, not the other adults.

Depends on the situation. If OP was hosting a play date why was she letting the kids run around unsupervised?

Why would OP even want to "host a playdate" if the expectation is that OP needs to watch all of the kids like a hawk. If a 1st grader needs that level of supervision, it's on the parents to either provide it or at least let the host know that the child needs to be watched like a toddler.

Also, if you invite an entire family to your house, why would you be expected to parent everyone else's children? I would be so uncomfortable with parenting someone else's child when they're sitting right there.

Was it the entire family? She said she hosted a play date, not a family gathering.

The first time you have a new kid around for a playdate at that age you loosely supervise and step in where necessary.

This is what OP said at the top of page 2:
"Our close friend group were all family friends so it was mostly family home hang outs. We all have kids who are busy so a family would say dinner at our house Saturday and our friend group would come and go. Often one parent comes with a kid and other parent shows up later with another kid."

The implication is that at least one parent was there with the boy during the sconce and hitting incident. Since OP is such good friends with the mom, it's likely that they both hang out and let the kids play together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

No, you model being inclusive and supportive of others while protecting your own kids.

Where were the adults? Why were kids running around unsupervised?

You mean where were the boy’s parents. It’s their responsibility, not the other adults.

Depends on the situation. If OP was hosting a play date why was she letting the kids run around unsupervised?

Why would OP even want to "host a playdate" if the expectation is that OP needs to watch all of the kids like a hawk. If a 1st grader needs that level of supervision, it's on the parents to either provide it or at least let the host know that the child needs to be watched like a toddler.

Also, if you invite an entire family to your house, why would you be expected to parent everyone else's children? I would be so uncomfortable with parenting someone else's child when they're sitting right there.

Was it the entire family? She said she hosted a play date, not a family gathering.

The first time you have a new kid around for a playdate at that age you loosely supervise and step in where necessary.

This is what OP said at the top of page 2:
"Our close friend group were all family friends so it was mostly family home hang outs. We all have kids who are busy so a family would say dinner at our house Saturday and our friend group would come and go. Often one parent comes with a kid and other parent shows up later with another kid."

The implication is that at least one parent was there with the boy during the sconce and hitting incident. Since OP is such good friends with the mom, it's likely that they both hang out and let the kids play together.

I assume that was before covid.

From OP:
“I host a lot of play dates and have not invited them over again. Once was enough. We hung out a lot before Covid but the boy was a toddler then.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

This is not the same as OP's situation at all. In this case, your parents knew about your aunt's behavior and made sure that you were always protected. They probably explained to you why your aunt was different. An equivalent situation would be if you had unruly cousins that you visited with and the parents left all the kids unsupervised and your cousins hit you repeatedly.

DP. They probably didn't. People didn't explain everything back-in-the-day, especially not to kids. Kids figured it out (or didn't).

+1 And they learned to navigate a world where their world wasn’t perfectly curated. I don’t want to over-praise the past — obviously there were a lot of issues — but this thread is filled with the exact sort of snowplow parents who curate every little experience their kids ever have.

There’s a big difference between a perfectly curated world and a reasonable expectation not to have to face aggression in your own home. OP would be remiss to not protect her daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

How convenient. You provided absolutely no specific examples of how OP can force the DD to play with this boy without risking being hit. Again, if you're such an amazing parent, please enlighten us as to how you'd control the boy's behavior so no one gets hit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

This is not the same as OP's situation at all. In this case, your parents knew about your aunt's behavior and made sure that you were always protected. They probably explained to you why your aunt was different. An equivalent situation would be if you had unruly cousins that you visited with and the parents left all the kids unsupervised and your cousins hit you repeatedly.

DP. They probably didn't. People didn't explain everything back-in-the-day, especially not to kids. Kids figured it out (or didn't).

+1 And they learned to navigate a world where their world wasn’t perfectly curated. I don’t want to over-praise the past — obviously there were a lot of issues — but this thread is filled with the exact sort of snowplow parents who curate every little experience their kids ever have.

There’s a big difference between a perfectly curated world and a reasonable expectation not to have to face aggression in your own home. OP would be remiss to not protect her daughter.

And in this case the learning to navigate is OP’s daughter saying she does not want to interact with this boy. It’s then her parents responsibility to back her up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

I am a parent, and I taught my DD that if someone is being violent toward her, she has my permission to kick him in the nuts. Somehow, I doubt that's the option you wanted to hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

I’m not the PP who you are replying to but you really can’t envision a world where you let the parent know that your child is feeling nervous about hitting and you would like to work together to plan a short outing that everyone can feel comfortable with? And then you talk to your DD about how hitting is never ok and we are giving a second chance because this kid is 6 (I promise you she has seen hitting at school) and what would make her feel comfortable? She can stay close to you while you go on an outing to a festival or something. Because 6 year olds are still learning and many of them are struggling with something.

You don’t have to do that. You can decide it’s not worth it to you. It’s a free country; you can ice her out for any reason you want. But if you want to give a try you certainly could.

[Anonymous]

We have had to stop socializing with the families with bad kids. Too negative an experience for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

How convenient. You provided absolutely no specific examples of how OP can force the DD to play with this boy without risking being hit. Again, if you're such an amazing parent, please enlighten us as to how you'd control the boy's behavior so no one gets hit.

How old are your kids? You haven’t figured this out yet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

I am a parent, and I taught my DD that if someone is being violent toward her, she has my permission to kick him in the nuts. Somehow, I doubt that's the option you wanted to hear.

You taught her that in kindergarten/first grade?