How to respond when kid gets into school and is Legacy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the world of insanely competitive admissions, it is only rational to choose to apply where one's parents attended if a kid wants to go to a really selective school and is otherwise qualified and loves the school. Our kid was just accepted ED at my alma mater (Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore) and is not an athlete but otherwise had the grades, scores, great EC's, etc. - but yes, these schools are near impossible admits. Why wouldn't they have chosen to apply to the one I attended for the legacy boost? We are ignoring the few smarmy legacy comments because who cares.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea and agree it’s rational. But people shouldn’t pretend that it doesn’t grant a huge advantage, either.

Sure - if you dig deep, it's about twice the advantage. So from 8 to 16% at a Williams or Swat for example, and more if you apply ED.

So innumerate.

Twice a very small number is still a very small number.

As a person whose professional background is data analytics, you are in no position to be commenting about innumeracy. Wow.

[Anonymous]

OP, just smile and say nothing. Don’t say a word. The silence will make the person realize it was a rude comment. Likely a true comment, but still inappropriate. Sort of like commenting on weight loss or weight gain. True, but inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son got into a top school EA. It was the school where dh and I attended. He is a top student in all respects, hard worker, great stats/rigor, leadership, community service, etc. And none of this was pushed/curated by us, he really drove it all (including applications), and we are really proud of him.

A couple of kids from school who got rejected said “oh but your parents went there” like that’s the only reason he got in. I know it helps that we did, of course, but his stats match the student population, it’s not like he was pulled up despite bad grades/scores. We aren’t big benefactors either, it’s not like the school would see big donations in our history.

So how to respond if someone says that?

With curiosity and ask “what do you mean?”. Let them clarify. And if they are so as bold to say that’s the only reason just say it’s not the experience that every legacy who applies gets in automatically but if they’ve seen otherwise they would like to see it.

Someone that is in their feels to the extent they would be insulting to your face doesn't really need to be coddled. There are lots of different advantages a student can have at the end of the day, a competitive college won’t admit someone they don’t think can handle the work.

So passive aggressive? You know what was meant and you know that the answer is, YES, we are grateful we had an advantage in the admissions system. It is the same thing as:

"I am going to Yale."

"Oh? Are you playing football there, too?"

"Yes!"

Everyone who is a party to that conversation AND who knows the kid is playing football there knows this kid got in bc of the sport. Are you upset that it is widely known or upset someone dares to say it to the kid's face? Because everyone is thinking it whether it is said or not. Doesn't mean the kid is inferior, just means the kid is going b/c he's hooked, just like someone from North Dakota or a rural area, a famous family, a legacy, in ROTC, etc.

It is far more impressive when unhooked kids are admitted to highly selective schools.

I’d separate many hooks like sports or instrument and ROTC because those are achieved through hard work not luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the world of insanely competitive admissions, it is only rational to choose to apply where one's parents attended if a kid wants to go to a really selective school and is otherwise qualified and loves the school. Our kid was just accepted ED at my alma mater (Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore) and is not an athlete but otherwise had the grades, scores, great EC's, etc. - but yes, these schools are near impossible admits. Why wouldn't they have chosen to apply to the one I attended for the legacy boost? We are ignoring the few smarmy legacy comments because who cares.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea and agree it’s rational. But people shouldn’t pretend that it doesn’t grant a huge advantage, either.

Sure - if you dig deep, it's about twice the advantage. So from 8 to 16% at a Williams or Swat for example, and more if you apply ED.

So innumerate.

Twice a very small number is still a very small number.

Willfully blind.

No, just better at math.

84% still don’t get in.

It can be up to a 5x greater chance for admission per the linked NYT article on research. You can be an ostrich but let’s be real: the kids and legacy parents have discussed the bump in admissions so why is it so hush hush outside the family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son got into a top school EA. It was the school where dh and I attended. He is a top student in all respects, hard worker, great stats/rigor, leadership, community service, etc. And none of this was pushed/curated by us, he really drove it all (including applications), and we are really proud of him.

A couple of kids from school who got rejected said “oh but your parents went there” like that’s the only reason he got in. I know it helps that we did, of course, but his stats match the student population, it’s not like he was pulled up despite bad grades/scores. We aren’t big benefactors either, it’s not like the school would see big donations in our history.

So how to respond if someone says that?

With curiosity and ask “what do you mean?”. Let them clarify. And if they are so as bold to say that’s the only reason just say it’s not the experience that every legacy who applies gets in automatically but if they’ve seen otherwise they would like to see it.

Someone that is in their feels to the extent they would be insulting to your face doesn't really need to be coddled. There are lots of different advantages a student can have at the end of the day, a competitive college won’t admit someone they don’t think can handle the work.

So passive aggressive? You know what was meant and you know that the answer is, YES, we are grateful we had an advantage in the admissions system. It is the same thing as:

"I am going to Yale."

"Oh? Are you playing football there, too?"

"Yes!"

Everyone who is a party to that conversation AND who knows the kid is playing football there knows this kid got in bc of the sport. Are you upset that it is widely known or upset someone dares to say it to the kid's face? Because everyone is thinking it whether it is said or not. Doesn't mean the kid is inferior, just means the kid is going b/c he's hooked, just like someone from North Dakota or a rural area, a famous family, a legacy, in ROTC, etc.

It is far more impressive when unhooked kids are admitted to highly selective schools.

I’d separate many hooks like sports or instrument and ROTC because those are achieved through hard work not luck.

So? The hook still got them in. Without it, they aren’t heading to an ivy/high stats school, esp announcing it 2 months into jr year of HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t he be gracious and say something to acknowledge that legacy may have helped? He can shrug and say, “Yeah, I’m sure it helped, even if it’s not enough by itself without the other stuff like grades, etc.”

Congrats to your son, and please realize it’s spur grapes from students who aren’t lucky enough to have a non-merit-based small thumb on the scale. The system isn’t fair and that is what it is. Your son can be kind in this scenario and not take it personally.

Why should he be gracious here? They haven’t done anything that deserves grace.

I’d tell my kid to tell them to F off. That’s the response that comment deserves. Preferably while wearing the sweatshirt of the college that rejected them.

Do you always teach your kid to lie?

How is telling them to F off a lie?

Fine I would tell them to say “yes I got in because my parents were legacies. If your parents weren’t stupid they could have attended the school too and then you would have been a legacy. Sucks for you.”

You want these kids to wear a hairshirt because they had a legacy tip. You telling your kid to wear one because you’re well off?

Your defensiveness is telling. Frankly there is simply too much data out about how much preference legacies get. You can’t lie to the world any more, and you are angry about that. But you refuse to tell your child the truth about his significant admissions preference, and so prefer to teach him to go though life deeply entitled.

Defensiveness? Are you literate? I literally wrote they should say “yes I got in because my parents were legacies”

In fact I would tell them to apply because they have a better shot because they’re legacy even if it isn’t their first choice. And then after they get in I tell them to apply wherever else they want to go instead. I’m sorry you don’t have anything similar to offer your kid. Maybe you should have been more of a striver in high school. Sometimes the consequences of your laziness don’t appear for years I guess.

In any event, I think you’re misreading it because you refuse to believe that some people are perfectly comfortable owing their situation and don’t feel any shame in it. It’s really a simple calculation - their chance of getting in at my alma mater is 5-6x better than elsewhere so it’s an easy call.

I’m not going to feel the need to tell my kids to spare some kid’s feelings who is being a jerk no matter how much you want our kids to beat themselves up over it.

DP. Why is the other kid being a jerk for stating the obvious—which you acknowledge? You admit that your kid got in because he’s a legacy (which you also seem to attribute to all of the hard work you put in during your high school years). But the other kid is a jerk for saying exactly the same thing out loud? If you truly owned your privilege, there would be no need to attack others as you’re been doing.

DP. Exactly, that’s the game. OP knew this from the outset, and tailored their strategy to being legacy.

It could be more stark than a HS put down. My nephew did legacy ED, and his twin sister lapped him by getting in RD but attending elsewhere. They’re about to finish up, he went through the motions but never gained confidence, doesn’t plan to work in major. She’s continued the trajectory, found a major she loved, great internships, study abroad, honors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, just smile and say nothing. Don’t say a word. The silence will make the person realize it was a rude comment. Likely a true comment, but still inappropriate. Sort of like commenting on weight loss or weight gain. True, but inappropriate.

People who get called out on the truth like to fall back on vague claims that something is "rude" or "inappropriate." It's not. It's just the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, just smile and say nothing. Don’t say a word. The silence will make the person realize it was a rude comment. Likely a true comment, but still inappropriate. Sort of like commenting on weight loss or weight gain. True, but inappropriate.

People who get called out on the truth like to fall back on vague claims that something is "rude" or "inappropriate." It's not. It's just the truth.

The truth is they worked really hard in a number of areas and also had the benefit of legacy. Identifying legacy singularly comes off as sour grapes and should be treated as such. People aren’t robots, and having privilege doesn’t mean people have to deal with comments designed to hurt. In your internet world it might be “truth” but in the real world, it’s just being a dick. It’s an important lesson to learn that people can and will be offended by these comments so don’t be surprised.

[Anonymous]

If the kid in the original post said:

You’re soooo lucky you’re a legacy.

Instead of:

Oh, but your parents went there.

OR

If the kid told his friends “well, his parents went there!” But didn’t say it to the admitted kid…

Would OP be upset?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, just smile and say nothing. Don’t say a word. The silence will make the person realize it was a rude comment. Likely a true comment, but still inappropriate. Sort of like commenting on weight loss or weight gain. True, but inappropriate.

People who get called out on the truth like to fall back on vague claims that something is "rude" or "inappropriate." It's not. It's just the truth.

The truth is they worked really hard in a number of areas and also had the benefit of legacy. Identifying legacy singularly comes off as sour grapes and should be treated as such. People aren’t robots, and having privilege doesn’t mean people have to deal with comments designed to hurt. In your internet world it might be “truth” but in the real world, it’s just being a dick. It’s an important lesson to learn that people can and will be offended by these comments so don’t be surprised.

NP: why is it being a dick when it’s only said by someone outside the immediate family? If mom said: they do count legacy so this is great and should help - is she a dick?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are we protecting here? Sounds like it’s the kid who thought they had a competitive application but didn’t get admitted to an elite school. So, OP’s kid has to console them by suggesting that legacy tipped the scales for him? Wouldn’t that make the fragile kids even more resentful? I guess it’s a cope to “blame”the legacy parents. So stupid.

This. If they’re friends, call them on their BS. A friend would be happy for you and even if they made a snide remark because of jealousy, they would know it if you called them on it. Don’t apologize for success to this passive aggressive nonsense.

Since when is being aware of reality passive aggressive? It is not passive aggressive to recognize the reality of legacy preferences. It is simply fact.

Honestly I sometimes think legacy preference should go away only because the people who want it are so insufferable. You cannot demand that everyone pretend legacies don’t have an enormous advantage in admissions when there is so much hard data showing just how much advantage they get. You people sound like you would demand everyone in the world pretend the sky isn’t blue if understanding the sky is in fact blue would hurt your child’s feelings.

Is it necessary to qualify it to a friends face. Assuming it’s factually the only reason, what’s the purpose of “you only got in cause your parents went there?”

Facing reality? Why is acknowledging reality so offensive to you?

So then would it be appropriate to say back that yeah “it’s a bummer your parents weren’t couldn’t help you.”

The reality is that a friend made a smug remark that many would construe as downplaying everything else the kid did to get there. It’s a moment thing, and if I felt a friend was making a dig, I’d call them on it because in reality, the intent was to hurt feelings or self soothe their own insecurity. Just comes off as a sore loser.

You are so wildly defensive and entitled. It’s remarkable to see. Your demands that your child never, ever hear that he had a significant leg up in admissions by virtue of legacy admissions are quite something. Stating the truth of legacy admissions—something that is extremely well-documented by data at this point—is not “being a jerk” no matter how much you want to demand the world hide the truth from your child.

In any event, it would be fine (in fact, quite good) for your kid to acknowledge that he got in because of significant legacy preferences and then to express understanding and sympathy that the other child wasn’t born with the same lucky circumstances of birth. That would be far preferable than your child having a tantrum and demanding that everyone protect his ego by propping up a lie, which seems to be your approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A significant number (but not all) of the legacies admitted either were a) over-qualified (if there is such a thing at the top schools), or b) were equally qualified and it was a tie breaker. The ignorant posters who act like all or almost all legacies got in solely because they were legacies are idiots. Full stop. Not that complicated. When I meet a legacy, I assume they were meant to be there because more were than weren't. If in conversation they prove otherwise, then I assume otherwise.

The stupidity around here never ceases to amaze me.

Seems like you're the stupid one.

People aren't saying that the kid isn't qualified. People are saying that the double legacy gave them a boost, and without it, they may not have gotten in. Plenty of qualified students without legacy connections don't get in.

If you are a legacy, and double legacy at that, all things being equal, your chance of getting in is higher than one who doesn't have that legacy connection.

No one has claimed otherwise.

There is an advantage but it’s not huge. It’s still a tough admit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t he be gracious and say something to acknowledge that legacy may have helped? He can shrug and say, “Yeah, I’m sure it helped, even if it’s not enough by itself without the other stuff like grades, etc.”

Congrats to your son, and please realize it’s spur grapes from students who aren’t lucky enough to have a non-merit-based small thumb on the scale. The system isn’t fair and that is what it is. Your son can be kind in this scenario and not take it personally.

Why should he be gracious here? They haven’t done anything that deserves grace.

I’d tell my kid to tell them to F off. That’s the response that comment deserves. Preferably while wearing the sweatshirt of the college that rejected them.

Do you always teach your kid to lie?

How is telling them to F off a lie?

Fine I would tell them to say “yes I got in because my parents were legacies. If your parents weren’t stupid they could have attended the school too and then you would have been a legacy. Sucks for you.”

You want these kids to wear a hairshirt because they had a legacy tip. You telling your kid to wear one because you’re well off?

Your defensiveness is telling. Frankly there is simply too much data out about how much preference legacies get. You can’t lie to the world any more, and you are angry about that. But you refuse to tell your child the truth about his significant admissions preference, and so prefer to teach him to go though life deeply entitled.

Defensiveness? Are you literate? I literally wrote they should say “yes I got in because my parents were legacies”

In fact I would tell them to apply because they have a better shot because they’re legacy even if it isn’t their first choice. And then after they get in I tell them to apply wherever else they want to go instead. I’m sorry you don’t have anything similar to offer your kid. Maybe you should have been more of a striver in high school. Sometimes the consequences of your laziness don’t appear for years I guess.

In any event, I think you’re misreading it because you refuse to believe that some people are perfectly comfortable owing their situation and don’t feel any shame in it. It’s really a simple calculation - their chance of getting in at my alma mater is 5-6x better than elsewhere so it’s an easy call.

I’m not going to feel the need to tell my kids to spare some kid’s feelings who is being a jerk no matter how much you want our kids to beat themselves up over it.

Man, you are a remarkably bad parent. No wonder legacy kids have such bad reputations. It’s eye-opening to see the raw unvarnished thoughts of the legacy parents. The entitlement is unreal.

Entitlement is not the same thing as knowing how to play the game. I'm the legacy parent who laid out the rules and if my kid hadn't gotten in, we certainly wouldn't have called to complain. He had plenty of back-up options - this is just about understanding the odds. He just did what every other legacy kid who liked his parent's alma mater.

But you insist that any person who tells your child that they had a much easier time getting into the college because of legacy is a jerk, when of course that person is only stating truth. You demand that nobody speak the truth of legacy admissions to your child. That is pure, raw entitlement.

I'm actually the parent who said we don't care. You are getting really, really worked up. "pure, raw" blah blah blah

[Anonymous]

This is all a subset of American society as a whole. The privileged like to believe that they are the beneficiaries of hard work, when in reality they were born on second or third base into a system that benefits them. They argue that others simply have to work harder to have what they have. Look at the PP attacking other parents for not striving hard in high school to give their own kids legacy preference. But the systems are rigged. It's not a meritocracy. The privileged recognize this privately but don't like it spoken aloud, and they certainly do not like having it pointed out by someone who is not benefitting from the rigged systems. That person is brushed off as a "sore loser" or "rude."

The college admissions process is often the first time that many kids realize that it's not all about merit (and arguably, there is a certain privilege in this being the first dose of reality for those kids). So yeah, some of them are going to be upset and say the quiet part out loud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, just smile and say nothing. Don’t say a word. The silence will make the person realize it was a rude comment. Likely a true comment, but still inappropriate. Sort of like commenting on weight loss or weight gain. True, but inappropriate.

People who get called out on the truth like to fall back on vague claims that something is "rude" or "inappropriate." It's not. It's just the truth.

The truth is they worked really hard in a number of areas and also had the benefit of legacy. Identifying legacy singularly comes off as sour grapes and should be treated as such. People aren’t robots, and having privilege doesn’t mean people have to deal with comments designed to hurt. In your internet world it might be “truth” but in the real world, it’s just being a dick. It’s an important lesson to learn that people can and will be offended by these comments so don’t be surprised.

Acknowledgment of reality isn’t “sour grapes,” no matter how much you demand everyone else elide the truth to protect you and your child’s fragile egos. You are just entitled and enabling entitlement in your children.