Extreme resentment over mental load

[Anonymous]

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Then men whine about the things that aren’t done.

I gave up the big Christmas dinner and you’d think I’d sent the dog upstate the way my husband whined. (The kids loved having pancakes and cocoa and smores by the fireplace.)

Women can’t win.

So let him whine.

If whining is dictating your behavior, set a boundary for yourself.

Yes but where women lose out is that we care about our children. Most women won’t accept our kids not receiving gifts on Christmas or not having wrapped presents. We sacrifice ourselves to take care of our children.

Kids don't care about elaborate dinners. Buy cheap decor and lighting from Amazon, buy matching PJ'S from Amazon and make them pancakes and smores. Viola!

Yep. Kids learn what they're taught. You'd be shocked how low their standards might be.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Women in your life who love you warned you, gave you the truth.

Are you in a non-consensual or arranged marriage?

OP has done pretty well in her choice of DH compared to a lot of women. I bet many women who love her cannot even get their DHs to do what hers does.

Because the standard for men is that low.

The year that I literally made a list of holiday tasks and asked my husband which half of them he was going to take on. "How do you see your role in this holiday?" I asked, and he said he saw himself eating Christmas dinner. That was his role. Can you even ^&&*(( imagine?

You married that man, you enabled that man, and yet, here you are, slagging off that man, YOUR man, over some things you chose.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have long been over these holiday "traditions" that mostly depend on women to plan, execute, and maintain. If he's not going to take the initiative, figure out some parts of your mental load to offload forever.

+1.

I LOVE HOLIDAY TRADATION!!!

Decorations. Inside, outside. Festive foods, scents, activities. Outings to see lights and hear carols. All of it.

DH really does not care, so left to him, it would falter.

I care, so I shoulder the burden.

To each their own.

If it makes you happy, enjoy it! Well done you for making your holidays what you want them to be. No notes.

[Anonymous]

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Then men whine about the things that aren’t done.

I gave up the big Christmas dinner and you’d think I’d sent the dog upstate the way my husband whined. (The kids loved having pancakes and cocoa and smores by the fireplace.)

Women can’t win.

So let him whine.

If whining is dictating your behavior, set a boundary for yourself.

Yes but where women lose out is that we care about our children. Most women won’t accept our kids not receiving gifts on Christmas or not having wrapped presents. We sacrifice ourselves to take care of our children.

I get this, but my kids were chuffed as nuts the year I decided all their presents go in one, giant bag. And when we cut back on the number of presents to save money, they didn't complain or even seem to notice much. There's a difference between putting in the extra work to take care of our kids and sacrificing our sanity to do it some sort of way without questioning whether or not that way actually works.

Christmas isn't about a tree, or a meal, or presents. Make it work for you, however that looks, and let go of the expectations.

This. I wrap my kids’ Christmas and birthday presents in clean pillowcases. Tie a ribbon to close it up, pop on the same name tags we’ve used for years, and I’m done with it. Takes less than five minutes to “wrap” everything.

Funny. You likely take more than 5 min. to get yourself fancy coffees. Or go to yoga. Lovely, mom.

DP - Your need to insult a stranger for things that don't impact you at all is a whole story about who and how you are as a person, and it ain't pretty.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I don’t think this is right.
Unless your household is completely dysfunctional or you don’t celebrate Christmas, there is an expectation that there will be presents on Christmas morning and that someone is going to do the whole Santa thing.
The assumption is that she is going to handle it because she is the lesser ranking spouse and therefore has more of the grunt work.
If she doesn’t do it, he isn’t automatically going to pick up the slack. He’s going to be mad. Maybe it’s worth the fight. I don’t know.

But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

It's almost like avoiding confrontations comes at a cost...

You have way bigger problems if not doing all of the mental load causes extreme conflict that scares you. In that case: divorce.

Really?
I’m not the person who said that my husband would scream at me, but I did say there would be conflict.

I posted earlier with an example that if my kid asked me if they could have ketchup at dinner, I would tell them they could and expect them to get it themselves. But if my mom asked for ketchup with dinner, I would get up and get it for her. It’s a power thing. I am above my kid and below my mom.

Now, if my kid just sat there and said, “Why can’t you get the ketchup? You did it for grandma,” there would be conflict. It wouldn’t be screaming, and it might even just be a “look,” but it would be known that my kid needs to get his own ketchup.

This is the kind of conflict I’m talking about. If I don’t want do something, I can ask him to do it, and he can say “yes” or “no.” But if I just drop the ball, it’s generally felt that I f’ed up. And it’s mostly non-verbal.

This idea that if he sees me not making Christmas dinner, he will know that he should make it, is just ridiculous. It won’t get made, and he will be pissed.

But, why is he pissed??? He could have just as easily cooked it and didn’t.So, why does he get to be pissed? And, so what if he’s pissed! He’s an adult who can manage complex emotions.

You can either do things differently and be a bit uncomfortable for a while as the culture & dynamics in your house/relationship evolve or you can stew in your own misery. Your choice

Maybe the fights and the conflict are worth it. Maybe they aren’t.

There is a cost either way.

Maybe some of the posters on this thread love conflict, thrive on conflict, require conflict and would utterly collapse without the conflict and martyrdom they've built their entire identities around. Just sayin'...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women in your life who love you warned you, gave you the truth.

Are you in a non-consensual or arranged marriage?

OP has done pretty well in her choice of DH compared to a lot of women. I bet many women who love her cannot even get their DHs to do what hers does.

Because the standard for men is that low.

The year that I literally made a list of holiday tasks and asked my husband which half of them he was going to take on. "How do you see your role in this holiday?" I asked, and he said he saw himself eating Christmas dinner. That was his role. Can you even ^&&*(( imagine?

You married that man, you enabled that man, and yet, here you are, slagging off that man, YOUR man, over some things you chose.

She’s not responsible for his behavior. She’s not his parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women in your life who love you warned you, gave you the truth.

Are you in a non-consensual or arranged marriage?

OP has done pretty well in her choice of DH compared to a lot of women. I bet many women who love her cannot even get their DHs to do what hers does.

Because the standard for men is that low.

The year that I literally made a list of holiday tasks and asked my husband which half of them he was going to take on. "How do you see your role in this holiday?" I asked, and he said he saw himself eating Christmas dinner. That was his role. Can you even ^&&*(( imagine?

I chuckled. You should be grateful you have a funny husband!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women in your life who love you warned you, gave you the truth.

Are you in a non-consensual or arranged marriage?

OP has done pretty well in her choice of DH compared to a lot of women. I bet many women who love her cannot even get their DHs to do what hers does.

Because the standard for men is that low.

The year that I literally made a list of holiday tasks and asked my husband which half of them he was going to take on. "How do you see your role in this holiday?" I asked, and he said he saw himself eating Christmas dinner. That was his role. Can you even ^&&*(( imagine?

You married that man, you enabled that man, and yet, here you are, slagging off that man, YOUR man, over some things you chose.

She’s not responsible for his behavior. She’s not his parent.

Correct. She's responsible for her own behavior. If she followed up that comment with "Cool! Where are we ordering from?" then all's well. But on this thread, the odds are that she then proceeded to do all the things on the list herself, with an attitude, resenting her "^&&*((" husband the whole time.

She's responsible for her own behavior, and her own happiness. If he isn't going to help, she gets to decide what she does and doesn't do.

[Anonymous]

I worked for a married couple who were principals of the firm.
Both were really talented but he got to do all the fun stuff while she had to manage the day to day of the company and pull in clients. In top of that, she was earning an additional degree. They have no kids but plenty of property/offices on the east coast and she managed the real estate.
On my first Xmas there, they were busy moving office locations and I heard him say to his wife "Oop, the company didn't put out a Christmas card this year" and he looked at her dolefully.
She snapped at him "Don't look at me that way. Why is it my fault that didn't happen?!"

It's a universal problem I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This. I wrap my kids’ Christmas and birthday presents in clean pillowcases. Tie a ribbon to close it up, pop on the same name tags we’ve used for years, and I’m done with it. Takes less than five minutes to “wrap” everything.

I use amazon gift wrap. It looks nicer. It's less work. And you aren't creating more laundry by dirtying pillow cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. I wrap my kids’ Christmas and birthday presents in clean pillowcases. Tie a ribbon to close it up, pop on the same name tags we’ve used for years, and I’m done with it. Takes less than five minutes to “wrap” everything.

I use amazon gift wrap. It looks nicer. It's less work. And you aren't creating more laundry by dirtying pillow cases.

You're just dirtying the planet lining Bezos' pockets. The pillowcase is a much better idea. And hey- maybe try getting gifts from somewhere that isn't Amazon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. I wrap my kids’ Christmas and birthday presents in clean pillowcases. Tie a ribbon to close it up, pop on the same name tags we’ve used for years, and I’m done with it. Takes less than five minutes to “wrap” everything.

I use amazon gift wrap. It looks nicer. It's less work. And you aren't creating more laundry by dirtying pillow cases.

You're just dirtying the planet lining Bezos' pockets. The pillowcase is a much better idea. And hey- maybe try getting gifts from somewhere that isn't Amazon?

Very well. Plenty of convenient ordering services offer gift wrap. It's a highly common thing. This is a non-issue.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote: +1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

If these women are amenable to outsourcing gift wrapping and tree decorating and Christmas dinner preparing, they should.

I outsource what I don't want on my mental load. People resist this because they want to wrap gifts. Not everyone does. But it is not uncommon.

Or because they think about that money going toward retirement accounts or college funds.

OR because they're unwilling to drop the nonessentials to preserve their sanity and resources. Gift wrapping, tree decorating, Christmas dinner preparing... nothing stated in this thread is a need.

Then what is a need? If you don’t need these things you also could live without a sofa, never go on vacation and eat McDonald’s every night instead of a normal meal.

You sound like a man who takes advantage of female labor and your only defense is to claim it’s all unnecessary make work. As if kids don’t expect presents from Santa.

TIL I'm finally a man!

I am, interestingly enough, a person who has gone without a sofa, lived many long years without a vacation, and ate worse than McDonalds many nights. It probably continues to inform my perspective... Maybe it's easier to realize how nice things are because I went for many years without those niceties and I realize they're definitely not needs.

Were you a child when these things happened? And do you think that just because you survived those situations that that's the bar for how people should want to live or have their kids live?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

+1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

So stop.

And neglect the children? Yeah, great solution.

I stopped cooking and my husband looked like a deer in the headlights at first but then he started scrambling. First he ordered take out, then bought prepared meals at Whole Foods, and now he’s getting the meal boxes with ingredients that he cooks. No, my kids weren’t neglected. And, it turns out, he could and would cook if I stopped cooking. I did the same thing with Summer camps: told him in December that I was no longer in charge of securing Summer camps, let him know if he didn’t have a plan for the kids by early January, we’d be screwed. Lo and be hold he got it done and is now on Year 3 of being Summer camp organizer. I no longer think about it…well except for now while writing this. Some things will go awry, it will be ugly sometimes but it’s worth it.

PPs aren’t suggesting shifting the load to their husbands. They’re suggesting abandoning key work—like finding summer camps—altogether, insisting it isn’t actually necessary and that these women’s stressors are all in their heads.

Summer camp isn't key work. It's not that the problem is all in your head, it's that the problem is your attachment to unnecessary things.

Are you offering to provide childcare for me each summer? I didn't think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: +1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

If these women are amenable to outsourcing gift wrapping and tree decorating and Christmas dinner preparing, they should.

I outsource what I don't want on my mental load. People resist this because they want to wrap gifts. Not everyone does. But it is not uncommon.

Or because they think about that money going toward retirement accounts or college funds.

OR because they're unwilling to drop the nonessentials to preserve their sanity and resources. Gift wrapping, tree decorating, Christmas dinner preparing... nothing stated in this thread is a need.

Then what is a need? If you don’t need these things you also could live without a sofa, never go on vacation and eat McDonald’s every night instead of a normal meal.

You sound like a man who takes advantage of female labor and your only defense is to claim it’s all unnecessary make work. As if kids don’t expect presents from Santa.

TIL I'm finally a man!

I am, interestingly enough, a person who has gone without a sofa, lived many long years without a vacation, and ate worse than McDonalds many nights. It probably continues to inform my perspective... Maybe it's easier to realize how nice things are because I went for many years without those niceties and I realize they're definitely not needs.

Were you a child when these things happened? And do you think that just because you survived those situations that that's the bar for how people should want to live or have their kids live?

No, I don't think that's the bar for how people should want to live or have their kids live. But it IS livable. Between having less and having a stressed-out, probably drunk, "extremely resentful" parent and the tension that creates, I'd pick less. I would've picked less as a child, too. Less is easier to survive.