URMs Feeling Pressure to Prove Themselves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have discussed this with my DD (we are south Asian) and the way we think about it is like this. Schools like Harvard are a lottery. The threshold at which you can reasonably buy a lottery ticket is different for different groups of kids (urms, legacies, etc). But it’s a lottery for everyone. And that is the key point. These “stats” are not what get you into the school - we all knew there are plenty of 4.0/stellar EC/1600 kids who get rejected. All these stats do is make you competitive to have your application read thoroughly. That’s it. And it is true no matter which group you fall into.

+1 and ending affirmative action will not change the fact that the top 30 schools are essentially lotteries. That said, I don't think that Asian American students should be expected to outperform or be discriminated against.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have discussed this with my DD (we are south Asian) and the way we think about it is like this. Schools like Harvard are a lottery. The threshold at which you can reasonably buy a lottery ticket is different for different groups of kids (urms, legacies, etc). But it’s a lottery for everyone. And that is the key point. These “stats” are not what get you into the school - we all knew there are plenty of 4.0/stellar EC/1600 kids who get rejected. All these stats do is make you competitive to have your application read thoroughly. That’s it. And it is true no matter which group you fall into.

+1 and ending affirmative action will not change the fact that the top 30 schools are essentially lotteries. That said, I don't think that Asian American students should be expected to outperform or be discriminated against.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Try not to think of it this way - it only leads to frustration. Harvard and others like it are looking to produce the next Ron DeSantis or Terence Tao or Alice Walker or Bill Gates or Michelle Obama or whoever has influence on their world and country. It is almost impossible to predict this when looking at high school kids. College preparation is certainly one factor they are looking at when trying to decide who to admit but it’s a floor. Mostly they want to build this class of future leaders. Their success in picking at least a few superstars is what keeps their brand active and their coffers full. The stats you see are the product of that subjective and perhaps wrong assessment of some of the smartest 17/18 year olds in the world. It results in a class where more high achieving Asian Americans don’t make it than similarly qualified peers. Some of it may be (is) because of unconscious bias. But honestly it’s at least partly because you are using how you might choose those likely to be most successful (academic preparedness) with what Harvard is looking for (none of us really know).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

well, now you're moving the goal posts. This particular thread was about test scores.

Fact is that Asian Americans have to outperform every group in every way, not just SATs, to get in.

Also, who says college admissions should reflect the demographics of the country?

If they are admitted at 3x their population that just says they are super performers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

NP. SAT scores are not indicators of college preparedness. And, honestly, all the contenders are "college prepared." It's about what the university thinks students will bring to the table or to the class. This pointing to testing data, really starts to seem racist, suggesting students who are less likely to get prep and have lower scores are therefore less "college ready" (you are hinting ar less smart/capable). Stop that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Try not to think of it this way - it only leads to frustration. Harvard and others like it are looking to produce the next Ron DeSantis or Terence Tao or Alice Walker or Bill Gates or Michelle Obama or whoever has influence on their world and country. It is almost impossible to predict this when looking at high school kids. College preparation is certainly one factor they are looking at when trying to decide who to admit but it’s a floor. Mostly they want to build this class of future leaders. Their success in picking at least a few superstars is what keeps their brand active and their coffers full. The stats you see are the product of that subjective and perhaps wrong assessment of some of the smartest 17/18 year olds in the world. It results in a class where more high achieving Asian Americans don’t make it than similarly qualified peers. Some of it may be (is) because of unconscious bias. But honestly it’s at least partly because you are using how you might choose those likely to be most successful (academic preparedness) with what Harvard is looking for (none of us really know).

That some major mental gymnastics to justify racism. Kudos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Try not to think of it this way - it only leads to frustration. Harvard and others like it are looking to produce the next Ron DeSantis or Terence Tao or Alice Walker or Bill Gates or Michelle Obama or whoever has influence on their world and country. It is almost impossible to predict this when looking at high school kids. College preparation is certainly one factor they are looking at when trying to decide who to admit but it’s a floor. Mostly they want to build this class of future leaders. Their success in picking at least a few superstars is what keeps their brand active and their coffers full. The stats you see are the product of that subjective and perhaps wrong assessment of some of the smartest 17/18 year olds in the world. It results in a class where more high achieving Asian Americans don’t make it than similarly qualified peers. Some of it may be (is) because of unconscious bias. But honestly it’s at least partly because you are using how you might choose those likely to be most successful (academic preparedness) with what Harvard is looking for (none of us really know).

That some major mental gymnastics to justify racism. Kudos.

Stop and try to think about it. What are they optimizing for? Clearly it’s not test scores and GPAs. So what is it?

Leave race out if it. If you compare an admitted Asian American kid to a rejected Asian American kid, do you think the one that got in will always have the highest stats?

Not saying there isn’t bias and prejudice in how they decide what makes a person likely to become a star, but that does seem to be what they are assessing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

well, now you're moving the goal posts. This particular thread was about test scores.

Fact is that Asian Americans have to outperform every group in every way, not just SATs, to get in.

Also, who says college admissions should reflect the demographics of the country?

If they are admitted at 3x their population that just says they are super performers.

DP. No PP isn't. THeir point about SAT not meaning that much is valid, and this thread is not particularly about test scores.
No they don't. They need to not perform similarly and bring similar assets to the table. If several kids submit for CS with robotics club, violin and AIME and high SATs, how many of those should they take and still expect to have a diverse community? Yes, this sounds like a stereotype, but it is the case for many kids at our magnet. Many kids have paths dictated by parents, and those become very similar.
When you ask about reflecting demographics, your underlying supposition is that college's should be able to admit the students they think will bring the most to their campus. You argue against yourself here.
No it doesn't. It could easily suggest that they come from cultural groups that value certain aspects of education and invest with lots of enrichment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Try not to think of it this way - it only leads to frustration. Harvard and others like it are looking to produce the next Ron DeSantis or Terence Tao or Alice Walker or Bill Gates or Michelle Obama or whoever has influence on their world and country. It is almost impossible to predict this when looking at high school kids. College preparation is certainly one factor they are looking at when trying to decide who to admit but it’s a floor. Mostly they want to build this class of future leaders. Their success in picking at least a few superstars is what keeps their brand active and their coffers full. The stats you see are the product of that subjective and perhaps wrong assessment of some of the smartest 17/18 year olds in the world. It results in a class where more high achieving Asian Americans don’t make it than similarly qualified peers. Some of it may be (is) because of unconscious bias. But honestly it’s at least partly because you are using how you might choose those likely to be most successful (academic preparedness) with what Harvard is looking for (none of us really know).

That some major mental gymnastics to justify racism. Kudos.

And you are using racism as a dog whistle to drown out the cogent points PP made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

I have never understood the obsession with “representation”. Why should students who apply themselves to get into the best colleges they can have to be subjected to quotas based on population demographics? What about looking at kids as individuals when evaluating them and picking the ones who would best contribute to the school environment? “Representation” is just another word for quota. If people want more “representation”, they should be willing to put in the effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Try not to think of it this way - it only leads to frustration. Harvard and others like it are looking to produce the next Ron DeSantis or Terence Tao or Alice Walker or Bill Gates or Michelle Obama or whoever has influence on their world and country. It is almost impossible to predict this when looking at high school kids. College preparation is certainly one factor they are looking at when trying to decide who to admit but it’s a floor. Mostly they want to build this class of future leaders. Their success in picking at least a few superstars is what keeps their brand active and their coffers full. The stats you see are the product of that subjective and perhaps wrong assessment of some of the smartest 17/18 year olds in the world. It results in a class where more high achieving Asian Americans don’t make it than similarly qualified peers. Some of it may be (is) because of unconscious bias. But honestly it’s at least partly because you are using how you might choose those likely to be most successful (academic preparedness) with what Harvard is looking for (none of us really know).

DP. You are suggesting that Harvard and co. are run by people so smart that you want to trust them to be 'king makers' for the world. i don't. What if the outcome would be even better if they were to depend on academic preparedness as opposed to other random criteria? How will we know unless it's tried out?

Sundar Pichai and Satya Nadella came out a system that almost exclusively rewards academic preparedness. They beat out thousands of others, many of who with undergrad and grad from Harvard, MIT and Stanford to get to where they are. Not too shabby. Why not extend that to all of society? What if they had been rejected from undergrad admissions because their college preferred to give away that seat who started a fake-charity or gold star pickleball player? Imagine the loss..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

NP. SAT scores are not indicators of college preparedness. And, honestly, all the contenders are "college prepared." It's about what the university thinks students will bring to the table or to the class. This pointing to testing data, really starts to seem racist, suggesting students who are less likely to get prep and have lower scores are therefore less "college ready" (you are hinting ar less smart/capable). Stop that.

So you’re saying the only thing that makes Asians college worthy are SAT scores. No other part of their profile is good enough? All you see is Asian = prepped.

Ironic, the op is upset about stereotypes but those defending her position sling stereotypes with haughty self righteousness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

NP. SAT scores are not indicators of college preparedness. And, honestly, all the contenders are "college prepared." It's about what the university thinks students will bring to the table or to the class. This pointing to testing data, really starts to seem racist, suggesting students who are less likely to get prep and have lower scores are therefore less "college ready" (you are hinting ar less smart/capable). Stop that.

So you’re saying the only thing that makes Asians college worthy are SAT scores. No other part of their profile is good enough? All you see is Asian = prepped.

Ironic, the op is upset about stereotypes but those defending her position sling stereotypes with haughty self righteousness.

+1 that is exactly the point that people are making.

Once again, ok to stereotype Asians; not ok to stereotype URM