Friend with bad child being iced out of friend group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: do you believe your child should never encounter situations she doesn’t want to be in? It is sentiments like this that lead to the massive anxiety problems in young adults that other PPs have referred to. I think a lot of parents genuinely believe their kids should never encounter a “bad” kid, or a challenging interaction, and they become wildly unprepared for adulthood.

Do you believe your child should be put in an abusive situation to make yourself feel inclusive?

A wild child who behaves a little bit wilder than other kids isn't an abusive situation. You are proving PP's point about raising unprepared children into unprepared adults.

Hurting people and destroying property doesn't qualify as "a little bit wilder".

If you tell me that your kids and their friends have never broken anything in your house, I'm going to tell you that you have girls. Calm girls. "Destroying property" is a part of raising children. It happens.

I have 2 boys.

I can swear on the holy bible that neither of my boys, nor any of their friends (also boys), has ever ripped a light fixture off the wall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: do you believe your child should never encounter situations she doesn’t want to be in? It is sentiments like this that lead to the massive anxiety problems in young adults that other PPs have referred to. I think a lot of parents genuinely believe their kids should never encounter a “bad” kid, or a challenging interaction, and they become wildly unprepared for adulthood.

Do you believe your child should be put in an abusive situation to make yourself feel inclusive?

A wild child who behaves a little bit wilder than other kids isn't an abusive situation. You are proving PP's point about raising unprepared children into unprepared adults.

Hurting people and destroying property doesn't qualify as "a little bit wilder".

If you tell me that your kids and their friends have never broken anything in your house, I'm going to tell you that you have girls. Calm girls. "Destroying property" is a part of raising children. It happens.

I have 2 boys.

I can swear on the holy bible that neither of my boys, nor any of their friends (also boys), has ever ripped a light fixture off the wall.

Same. 2 boys 1 girl. The only destruction has been by the girl and it mostly amounts to scribbling on walls. Nothing permanently fixed to the wall has been ripped out by anyone visiting our home or the people living in the home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: do you believe your child should never encounter situations she doesn’t want to be in? It is sentiments like this that lead to the massive anxiety problems in young adults that other PPs have referred to. I think a lot of parents genuinely believe their kids should never encounter a “bad” kid, or a challenging interaction, and they become wildly unprepared for adulthood.

Do you believe your child should be put in an abusive situation to make yourself feel inclusive?

A wild child who behaves a little bit wilder than other kids isn't an abusive situation. You are proving PP's point about raising unprepared children into unprepared adults.

Hurting people and destroying property doesn't qualify as "a little bit wilder".

If you tell me that your kids and their friends have never broken anything in your house, I'm going to tell you that you have girls. Calm girls. "Destroying property" is a part of raising children. It happens.

I have 2 boys.

I can swear on the holy bible that neither of my boys, nor any of their friends (also boys), has ever ripped a light fixture off the wall.

So they've broken some stuff, just not a wall sconce. Got it.

I'm sure you iced out that kid and his family. Right?

[Anonymous]

I think PPs are creating some fairly disingenuous arguments to pretend that the kind of behavior the OP describes is okay. It's not. That doesn't mean I have angel children, either. My daughter and two sons get into it plenty, with each other and occasionally other kids.

But. That's different than repeatedly hitting other children, repeatedly making other children cry, and damaging permanent fixtures in a home, all in one evening. My kids have never done that. Their friends have never done that, with the exception of a few who do have documented SN. We do still see those families socially, including their kids; when we do, all the adults present, including me and DH, look out for all the kids. The parents of the kids in question also don't hesitate to cut the playdates short/remove the child if need be.

It's the latter that's the real issue, in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sympathize with you, and with the other family.

But honestly, I sometimes feel we make our kids hang out with other kids that they don't like, just so we don't feel bad.

If this boy is unable to control himself and routinely hits other children, then no, I'm not going to force my child to spend time with him....just so I can feel better about myself

I think literally no one is saying the OP should make her child hang out w/ the kid who hits them.

+1

No one said she should force her kid to hang out with him.

Well, nobody said that verbatim.

But people did suggest that its cruel to ice out the kid, or to invite the Mom to hang but indicate that the kid cannot come.

That's essentially saying the same thing

This. This is what was actually posted and with all the histrionics “just dump the mom it’s kinder!” of course this is what was meant.

None of that was someone saying she should force her kid to hang out with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: do you believe your child should never encounter situations she doesn’t want to be in? It is sentiments like this that lead to the massive anxiety problems in young adults that other PPs have referred to. I think a lot of parents genuinely believe their kids should never encounter a “bad” kid, or a challenging interaction, and they become wildly unprepared for adulthood.

Do you believe your child should be put in an abusive situation to make yourself feel inclusive?

A wild child who behaves a little bit wilder than other kids isn't an abusive situation. You are proving PP's point about raising unprepared children into unprepared adults.

Hurting people and destroying property doesn't qualify as "a little bit wilder".

If you tell me that your kids and their friends have never broken anything in your house, I'm going to tell you that you have girls. Calm girls. "Destroying property" is a part of raising children. It happens.

I have 2 boys.

I can swear on the holy bible that neither of my boys, nor any of their friends (also boys), has ever ripped a light fixture off the wall.

So they've broken some stuff, just not a wall sconce. Got it.

I'm sure you iced out that kid and his family. Right?

If you can't see the difference between breaking a nerf gun and ripping out a wall sconce, well then, I don't know what to tell ya.

But ya, if a kid ripped out a light fixture and was routinely hitting my kid, I would 100% not let my kid socialize with him anymore. and tbh, there's not really anything all that controversial about that stance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sympathize with you, and with the other family.

But honestly, I sometimes feel we make our kids hang out with other kids that they don't like, just so we don't feel bad.

If this boy is unable to control himself and routinely hits other children, then no, I'm not going to force my child to spend time with him....just so I can feel better about myself

I think literally no one is saying the OP should make her child hang out w/ the kid who hits them.

+1

No one said she should force her kid to hang out with him.

Well, nobody said that verbatim.

But people did suggest that its cruel to ice out the kid, or to invite the Mom to hang but indicate that the kid cannot come.

That's essentially saying the same thing

This. This is what was actually posted and with all the histrionics “just dump the mom it’s kinder!” of course this is what was meant.

None of that was someone saying she should force her kid to hang out with them.

Everyone that was saying "try meeting at a playground" was essentially saying "force your daughter to share the same space with the id

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Likely the play tme is running a bit too long for the kid. How long are your get-togethers? Does his acting out start the minute he arrives, or does it begin surfacing after 45 to an hour, or longer? If it takes awhile, then he's reached his limit and maxxed out on sensory overload.

One of my kids was like that, and I had to watch closely for when she was ramping up toward meltdown, and we would go home before that point. We might be there for one hour and then sorry, we have to get going. Some children are just more sentitive to stimuli -- maybe they're a tiny bit on the spectrum, etc. -- and they melt down after too much exposure time to social chaos, loudness, etc.

Since this is a friend's child, you might gently hint that maybe her son is getting tired and needs to go home?

Better yet, limit these get-togethers to OUTSIDE the house, at a local park with a nice playground, where he cannot do damage to anyone's home. That's a no-brainer that should have already happened here. Put on a coat, meet at the playground.

If this mom is showing up, the gathering is going to be outside.

I would encourage you to find ways not to drop this mom, who is probably rather isolated already due to her son's behavior.

Not to pick on you, but this is an example of a post that puts OP's DD in a situation that she doesnt want to be in, to make either OP or the other mom, or the other kid feel better.

Unless you're suggesting that OP meet at a playground but not bring her DD?

+ 1.

NP. Question for both of you: do you believe your child should never encounter situations she doesn’t want to be in? It is sentiments like this that lead to the massive anxiety problems in young adults that other PPs have referred to. I think a lot of parents genuinely believe their kids should never encounter a “bad” kid, or a challenging interaction, and they become wildly unprepared for adulthood.

I get the sense a lot of PPs who are telling OP to cut off the relationship haven’t seen the outcomes in teens these days. They are so fragile.

Do you know what leads to bigger problems in young adults? It's teaching girls that it's perfectly normal for boys to hit them, the hitting must be rug swept, and they need to continue being around the person who is hitting them.

OP's DD handled this perfectly. She was in a situation she didn't like and then expressed a boundary she'd like to have. The worst thing OP could do would be to ignore DD's stated boundary and force her to play with someone who is hitting her, just so OP doesn't have to rock the boat.

[Anonymous]

Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If you tell me that your kids and their friends have never broken anything in your house, I'm going to tell you that you have girls. Calm girls. "Destroying property" is a part of raising children. It happens.

There is a difference though. Kids were running and accidentally knocked something over or a kid was ripping light fixtures off the wall.

Honestly, my tolerance for causing damage to my house is very low. It's usually kids of parents who don't really parent because they're tired and they can't control their children. I just don't invite them over.

A friend's son, NT, used to run around people houses, touch everything, go through things, leave greasy handprints on the wall, break things he wasn't supposed to touch to begin with. Parents didn't want to say "no" to him. Friends just stopped inviting them over. They were iced out and the boy is now grown up, but he's still not invited to other people's homes. I think it's pretty normal - actions have consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

+100. OP isn't encouraging her kids to be mean to this kid, she is choosing not to spend time with people who are hurtful to her kids. This is what a good parent does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you tell me that your kids and their friends have never broken anything in your house, I'm going to tell you that you have girls. Calm girls. "Destroying property" is a part of raising children. It happens.

There is a difference though. Kids were running and accidentally knocked something over or a kid was ripping light fixtures off the wall.

Honestly, my tolerance for causing damage to my house is very low. It's usually kids of parents who don't really parent because they're tired and they can't control their children. I just don't invite them over.

A friend's son, NT, used to run around people houses, touch everything, go through things, leave greasy handprints on the wall, break things he wasn't supposed to touch to begin with. Parents didn't want to say "no" to him. Friends just stopped inviting them over. They were iced out and the boy is now grown up, but he's still not invited to other people's homes. I think it's pretty normal - actions have consequences.

Then there are these kids who should be excluded and their parents iced out: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1080062.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

This is not the same as OP's situation at all. In this case, your parents knew about your aunt's behavior and made sure that you were always protected. They probably explained to you why your aunt was different. An equivalent situation would be if you had unruly cousins that you visited with and the parents left all the kids unsupervised and your cousins hit you repeatedly.