How to handle a kid who does not want a Bar Mitzvah

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If people who are not Jewish are unable to understand our concerns, maybe we should stop trying to talk to them about matters of Jewish concern.

Maybe people are unable to understand Jewish concerns, or perhaps unwilling to. Once such people are identified, there's no need to try to engage them in further conversation about Judaism.

This is what I'm thinking. A lot of the "advice" here was culturally irrelevant if not downright culturally insensitive. This is a bad moment in the world for understanding another worldview. People no longer feel they need to try and many posters here don't even seem to understand the concept. In this environment, let's stop trying to discuss Jewish matters with people who won't grasp or respect what's at stake for us.

DP. You seem to be arguing for exceptionalism. Others seem to be arguing for the individual kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If people who are not Jewish are unable to understand our concerns, maybe we should stop trying to talk to them about matters of Jewish concern.

Maybe people are unable to understand Jewish concerns, or perhaps unwilling to. Once such people are identified, there's no need to try to engage them in further conversation about Judaism.

This is what I'm thinking. A lot of the "advice" here was culturally irrelevant if not downright culturally insensitive. This is a bad moment in the world for understanding another worldview. People no longer feel they need to try and many posters here don't even seem to understand the concept. In this environment, let's stop trying to discuss Jewish matters with people who won't grasp or respect what's at stake for us.

DP. You seem to be arguing for exceptionalism. Others seem to be arguing for the individual kid.

You are demonstrating my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If people who are not Jewish are unable to understand our concerns, maybe we should stop trying to talk to them about matters of Jewish concern.

Maybe people are unable to understand Jewish concerns, or perhaps unwilling to. Once such people are identified, there's no need to try to engage them in further conversation about Judaism.

This is what I'm thinking. A lot of the "advice" here was culturally irrelevant if not downright culturally insensitive. This is a bad moment in the world for understanding another worldview. People no longer feel they need to try and many posters here don't even seem to understand the concept. In this environment, let's stop trying to discuss Jewish matters with people who won't grasp or respect what's at stake for us.

DP. You seem to be arguing for exceptionalism. Others seem to be arguing for the individual kid.

You are demonstrating my point.

So you’re saying you agree that… OP’s son’s individuality should be subordinated to his parents’ culture?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If people who are not Jewish are unable to understand our concerns, maybe we should stop trying to talk to them about matters of Jewish concern.

Maybe people are unable to understand Jewish concerns, or perhaps unwilling to. Once such people are identified, there's no need to try to engage them in further conversation about Judaism.

This is what I'm thinking. A lot of the "advice" here was culturally irrelevant if not downright culturally insensitive. This is a bad moment in the world for understanding another worldview. People no longer feel they need to try and many posters here don't even seem to understand the concept. In this environment, let's stop trying to discuss Jewish matters with people who won't grasp or respect what's at stake for us.

DP. You seem to be arguing for exceptionalism. Others seem to be arguing for the individual kid.

You are demonstrating my point.

So you’re saying you agree that… OP’s son’s individuality should be subordinated to his parents’ culture?

See argument above about different worldview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom pressured me to get confirmed. I stood up at the church not believing any of it. While I wasn’t traumatized it was performative, which seemed odd to me. Wouldn’t the church want me to be faithful?

My family is not religious (Catholic). My husband’s family is not religious (Jewish mother, atheist father). My father felt guilt so we did first communion and found a church that did Confirmation at 11 years old. No more church after that. My husband never attended religious classes.

I feel a little guilt about my children not knowing much about religion but neither do I. My son recently said something in a conversation about the Old Testament. I asked him how he knew anything about that. He said anything he knows about religion he learned from The Simpsons.

My visits to Sunday school in early years put me in a good place for answering Jeopardy questions. Maybe I'll check out the Simpson's for a refresher course. I'm not religious now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom pressured me to get confirmed. I stood up at the church not believing any of it. While I wasn’t traumatized it was performative, which seemed odd to me. Wouldn’t the church want me to be faithful?

My family is not religious (Catholic). My husband’s family is not religious (Jewish mother, atheist father). My father felt guilt so we did first communion and found a church that did Confirmation at 11 years old. No more church after that. My husband never attended religious classes.

I feel a little guilt about my children not knowing much about religion but neither do I. My son recently said something in a conversation about the Old Testament. I asked him how he knew anything about that. He said anything he knows about religion he learned from The Simpsons.

My visits to Sunday school in early years put me in a good place for answering Jeopardy questions. Maybe I'll check out the Simpson's for a refresher course. I'm not religious now.

Interesting. - my friend who was raised as a secular Jew (grandparents were holocaust survivors) has commented on occasionally being lost in conversations because she doesn't recognize biblical allusions. I'm not religious as an adult, but recall bible stories and catechism from Sunday school.

[Anonymous]

There were tons of Jews in the Washington Ethical Society when I lived in DC. Maybe that's an alternative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There were tons of Jews in the Washington Ethical Society when I lived in DC. Maybe that's an alternative.

It would provide community, but nothing like a Bar Mitzvah

[Anonymous]

I will say up front that I am not Jewish, but I empathize with OP. The boy seems to not actively dislike the religion, it’s more that he is uncomfortable being the center of attention during the service and party? We have a tradition in my (Hindu) faith which is kind of similar in that it marks the start of adulthood, though it does not require study. I would feel unhappy if either of my children refused to do it for a non-legit reason. If I am being honest, I would probably bribe them somehow so as not to miss the opportunity. I wouldn’t be able to let it go and be like “whatever, they’re American now”.

Yes, 13yos should be allowed to have personal choice, but if those beliefs are not strong (like saying I believe this religion is immoral) they should be willing to suck it up and put a smile on their face for one day to make their parents happy. Just like their parents sacrifice loads of time and energy to make *them* happy. Just like in the future, they’ll have to do things to make their own children and partner happy. 13 is old enough to understand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say up front that I am not Jewish, but I empathize with OP. The boy seems to not actively dislike the religion, it’s more that he is uncomfortable being the center of attention during the service and party? We have a tradition in my (Hindu) faith which is kind of similar in that it marks the start of adulthood, though it does not require study. I would feel unhappy if either of my children refused to do it for a non-legit reason. If I am being honest, I would probably bribe them somehow so as not to miss the opportunity. I wouldn’t be able to let it go and be like “whatever, they’re American now”.

Yes, 13yos should be allowed to have personal choice, but if those beliefs are not strong (like saying I believe this religion is immoral) they should be willing to suck it up and put a smile on their face for one day to make their parents happy. Just like their parents sacrifice loads of time and energy to make *them* happy. Just like in the future, they’ll have to do things to make their own children and partner happy. 13 is old enough to understand that.

Agreed. Teaching kid to do hard things even when they don’t want to do them is preparing for life as an adult. Teaching them to be part of a community, teaches them communal responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say up front that I am not Jewish, but I empathize with OP. The boy seems to not actively dislike the religion, it’s more that he is uncomfortable being the center of attention during the service and party? We have a tradition in my (Hindu) faith which is kind of similar in that it marks the start of adulthood, though it does not require study. I would feel unhappy if either of my children refused to do it for a non-legit reason. If I am being honest, I would probably bribe them somehow so as not to miss the opportunity. I wouldn’t be able to let it go and be like “whatever, they’re American now”.

Yes, 13yos should be allowed to have personal choice, but if those beliefs are not strong (like saying I believe this religion is immoral) they should be willing to suck it up and put a smile on their face for one day to make their parents happy. Just like their parents sacrifice loads of time and energy to make *them* happy. Just like in the future, they’ll have to do things to make their own children and partner happy. 13 is old enough to understand that.

Agreed. Teaching kid to do hard things even when they don’t want to do them is preparing for life as an adult. Teaching them to be part of a community, teaches them communal responsibility.

Teaches kids to compromise their own desires for the desires of their parents.

Forces kids to look at something presented as a gateway to adulthood as like other things their parents force them to do because they are children who don't really know what's best for themselves.

Presumes kids will thank parents later for forcing them to do something that they do not want to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say up front that I am not Jewish, but I empathize with OP. The boy seems to not actively dislike the religion, it’s more that he is uncomfortable being the center of attention during the service and party? We have a tradition in my (Hindu) faith which is kind of similar in that it marks the start of adulthood, though it does not require study. I would feel unhappy if either of my children refused to do it for a non-legit reason. If I am being honest, I would probably bribe them somehow so as not to miss the opportunity. I wouldn’t be able to let it go and be like “whatever, they’re American now”.

Yes, 13yos should be allowed to have personal choice, but if those beliefs are not strong (like saying I believe this religion is immoral) they should be willing to suck it up and put a smile on their face for one day to make their parents happy. Just like their parents sacrifice loads of time and energy to make *them* happy. Just like in the future, they’ll have to do things to make their own children and partner happy. 13 is old enough to understand that.

Agreed. Teaching kid to do hard things even when they don’t want to do them is preparing for life as an adult. Teaching them to be part of a community, teaches them communal responsibility.

Teaches kids to compromise their own desires for the desires of their parents.

Forces kids to look at something presented as a gateway to adulthood as like other things their parents force them to do because they are children who don't really know what's best for themselves.

Presumes kids will thank parents later for forcing them to do something that they do not want to do.

I’m very sorry that you have so much trauma and contempt for your parents/childhood. You have a lot to work through. If parents let their 12-13 olds “quit” all of their activities and communities and identities, kids would devolve into a 24 diet of YouTube videos, tween social media side eye, and sundry. It’s ok to encourage your kids to stick with things, to do hard things, to go outside themselves. They may not thank you later. But they may understand you later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say up front that I am not Jewish, but I empathize with OP. The boy seems to not actively dislike the religion, it’s more that he is uncomfortable being the center of attention during the service and party? We have a tradition in my (Hindu) faith which is kind of similar in that it marks the start of adulthood, though it does not require study. I would feel unhappy if either of my children refused to do it for a non-legit reason. If I am being honest, I would probably bribe them somehow so as not to miss the opportunity. I wouldn’t be able to let it go and be like “whatever, they’re American now”.

Yes, 13yos should be allowed to have personal choice, but if those beliefs are not strong (like saying I believe this religion is immoral) they should be willing to suck it up and put a smile on their face for one day to make their parents happy. Just like their parents sacrifice loads of time and energy to make *them* happy. Just like in the future, they’ll have to do things to make their own children and partner happy. 13 is old enough to understand that.

Agreed. Teaching kid to do hard things even when they don’t want to do them is preparing for life as an adult. Teaching them to be part of a community, teaches them communal responsibility.

Teaches kids to compromise their own desires for the desires of their parents.

Forces kids to look at something presented as a gateway to adulthood as like other things their parents force them to do because they are children who don't really know what's best for themselves.

Presumes kids will thank parents later for forcing them to do something that they do not want to do.

I’m very sorry that you have so much trauma and contempt for your parents/childhood. You have a lot to work through. If parents let their 12-13 olds “quit” all of their activities and communities and identities, kids would devolve into a 24 diet of YouTube videos, tween social media side eye, and sundry. It’s ok to encourage your kids to stick with things, to do hard things, to go outside themselves. They may not thank you later. But they may understand you later.

The issue is not quitting all their activities, communities and identities at age 12-13; the issue is not being forced to participate in a religious ceremony that is meaningless to the child.

Also, there's no need to be sorry for me - I don't have trauma or contempt for my parents/childhood. I didn't think much about religious rites of passage then and just went along with things. My parents weren't very religious either, but they went along too.

[Anonymous]

The “disappearing American Jew” has been a concern for decades. Forcing a kid into religion isn’t going to solve it. Moreover, being Jewish is not just about religion, it’s an ethnicity and culture. I am as non-religious as you could get but I’m still Jewish. OP if the concern is him not embracing the fact he’s Jewish, give him time, let him take the free trip to Israel in college for Birthright and let him figure out his own form of Judaism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The “disappearing American Jew” has been a concern for decades. Forcing a kid into religion isn’t going to solve it. Moreover, being Jewish is not just about religion, it’s an ethnicity and culture. I am as non-religious as you could get but I’m still Jewish. OP if the concern is him not embracing the fact he’s Jewish, give him time, let him take the free trip to Israel in college for Birthright and let him figure out his own form of Judaism

This sounds like a good way to go. Most of the Jews I know are secular Jews - they openly don't believe God, don't go to temple, but identify as Jews and observe Jewish holidays in secular ways (I guess).

I'm eager for the term "secular Christian" to become popularized. There are a lot of us out there and it's much easier to say and understand than "Atheist" or "Agnostic."

Of course there are many people, especially these days, who are simply raised without religion, so they wouldn't even be secular Christians, unless they were raised observing Christian holidays - presents at Christmas and chocolate bunnies at easter.