PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

I mean I believe in accepting everyone but I don't believe in forcing a church to baptize a child. It isn't needed.

Our church is quite welcoming. Your friends need to change religions. Stop being Catholic or Lutheran and go Episcopal. End of problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

I mean I believe in accepting everyone but I don't believe in forcing a church to baptize a child. It isn't needed.

So how does this translate to, "All are welcome, and all means all"? Please do explain it to me. All are clearly not welcome. Even if my friend just wanted to attend with his spouse and child, baptism aside, he would NOT be welcome. I don't believe for a second that PP's church would be a welcoming place for an openly gay couple and a child born using science.

I've never heard of a "homophobic" person or literally anyone being turned away from a pride parade so that's just a silly comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a subversion of a sacred Jewish tradition. That’s why it’s offensive.

Would you question why a Muslim finds people drawing Mohammed offensive? Or why a Christian would find burning the Cross offensive?

But Christians trying to celebrate a Passover are not drawing offensive pictures or burning Jewish symbols. They are viewing it as something sacred and observing it as respectfully as they know how. I understand that many Jewish posters feel that they are doing it incorrectly and that to do it at all is inappropriate, but they are doing so to honor a part of their religious heritage which has tremendous meaning for them.

Perhaps a better hypothetical would be if a Christian would find it offensive if a non-Christian practiced Baptism or the Lord's Supper as part of another religion's observance. I won't speak for all Christians, but personally, while I might view it as misguided and ineffective, I would not take offense at sincere, reverent worship.

Except the last supper wasn’t even a Passover Seder. So it’s inaccurate to say it has meaning for them.

Actually it was. Only obscure historians have argued (because they need something to write about) that it may not have been.

It was a lot like Jewish meals in general at the time. There wasn’t necessarily much special about it. It was nothing like the Passover of the Middle Ages, much less today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

I mean I believe in accepting everyone but I don't believe in forcing a church to baptize a child. It isn't needed.

So how does this translate to, "All are welcome, and all means all"? Please do explain it to me. All are clearly not welcome. Even if my friend just wanted to attend with his spouse and child, baptism aside, he would NOT be welcome. I don't believe for a second that PP's church would be a welcoming place for an openly gay couple and a child born using science.

I've never heard of a "homophobic" person or literally anyone being turned away from a pride parade so that's just a silly comparison.

NP. You are arguing with multiple people. One poster above (not the prior two you are arguing with) said their church was welcome to all. Welcome to All and Open and Affirming are common statements for Episcopal and UU churches to be clear that they welcome gay members. A church that states this would marry gay couples and baptize the children of gay couples.

[Anonymous]

You can only read the first part of this article for free, but it clearly states that Jesus didn’t have a Seder, and Christians shouldn’t either. Note that this is a Christian publication.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2017/march-web-only/jesus-didnt-eat-seder-meal.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a subversion of a sacred Jewish tradition. That’s why it’s offensive.

Would you question why a Muslim finds people drawing Mohammed offensive? Or why a Christian would find burning the Cross offensive?

But Christians trying to celebrate a Passover are not drawing offensive pictures or burning Jewish symbols. They are viewing it as something sacred and observing it as respectfully as they know how. I understand that many Jewish posters feel that they are doing it incorrectly and that to do it at all is inappropriate, but they are doing so to honor a part of their religious heritage which has tremendous meaning for them.

Perhaps a better hypothetical would be if a Christian would find it offensive if a non-Christian practiced Baptism or the Lord's Supper as part of another religion's observance. I won't speak for all Christians, but personally, while I might view it as misguided and ineffective, I would not take offense at sincere, reverent worship.

No, they engraft their Christian beliefs onto Passover — the explicit or implicit belief that Jesus is the Paschal sacrifice. This is why the book of Exodus is commonly part of the Easter liturgy. So a “Christian Passover” is either a subversion of Jewish passover (offensive) or if it is self-consciously done with no thoughts of Jesus, a weird kind of mimicry or minstrelsy (also offensive.)

I’ll say it again - if a Christian wants to observe the salvation of Israel and the Paschal sacrifice- that is ***already*** in your religion. It’s called Easter.

If a Christian wants to learn more about Judaism and experience Passover as a Jewish ritual- cultivate your interfaith ties, and you will be invited to a seder or find an interfaith public seder somewhere. You could even talk to your pastor about setting up an interfaith group.

[Anonymous]

I found this helpful: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/04/22/adding-jesus-to-a-seder-dinner-not-kosher/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.

Most of us don't!

And no Easter Bunny or jelly bean eggs either! That's Jesus's too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The privilege on display here is sad, but unsurprising.

Newsflash: You can go do whatever you want in your own home and in your own house of worship, too!

Newsflash: it’s not ok to appropriate people’s cultures or religions.

Christianity was founded by Jews, and as adapted and merged them with other cultures. The Hebrew Scriptures are the foundation for the New Testament and are an important part of the Bible.

[Anonymous]

No bacon either. That's ours too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can only read the first part of this article for free, but it clearly states that Jesus didn’t have a Seder, and Christians shouldn’t either. Note that this is a Christian publication.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2017/march-web-only/jesus-didnt-eat-seder-meal.html

I don’t even know where to begin if you’re using this as a source.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

I mean I believe in accepting everyone but I don't believe in forcing a church to baptize a child. It isn't needed.

Our church is quite welcoming. Your friends need to change religions. Stop being Catholic or Lutheran and go Episcopal. End of problem.

Doubtful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.

Most of us don't!

And no Easter Bunny or jelly bean eggs either! That's Jesus's too.

You’re not gonna see Jews running around with the Easter Bunny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can only read the first part of this article for free, but it clearly states that Jesus didn’t have a Seder, and Christians shouldn’t either. Note that this is a Christian publication.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2017/march-web-only/jesus-didnt-eat-seder-meal.html

I don’t even know where to begin if you’re using this as a source.

Can you show me a reputable source claiming it’s ok for Christians to have a Seder?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No bacon either. That's ours too.

I can’t even begin with the number of problems with this post.