PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I will celebrate my religious traditions as I see fit.


the point is - the passover seder is not a Christian religious tradition. It is a Jewish religious tradition.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.


the analogy is really that Jews should not light advent candles. Christmas is mostly secular; passover seders are home-based religious rituals.


Oh the irony in that sentence!



Christmas itself is NOT a home-based religious ritual for the vast majority of Christians in the same way Passover is. I grew up very Catholic, and the religious ritual part was in church, and the advent candle lighting and prayers the 4 weeks prior.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jews having a Christmas tree is not the same thing as Christians hosting a seder. But thanks for making it all about Christians.
actually it is. As a Christian I believe in the Passover story. A Jewish person does t actually believe Jesus was Gods son.


The Old Testament is part of Christianity. It’s part of the Christian religious tradition. Similarly, much of the Bible also overlaps with the Quran — it’s part of the Islamic religion. I don’t think many Christians realize that Jesus is a prophet in the Quran. Similarly, many Jews discount the relevance of Jewish prophets in Christianity. The three religions have so much overlap that we are called the people of the book.



Sigh. The New Testament is a new covenant which abrogated the law of the Old Testament. That's ... kind of the whole point of Christianity?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm an Orthodox Jew and I don't mind at all if non-Jews want to make seders for their own families. I find it strange and I don't see value in it, but I don't mind or take offense. If I was going to bother taking offense to Christianity, it would be for the supersessionist sentiments which are far more widespread than makeshift seders.

I am actually happy when non-Jews buy our kosher for Passover products for random reasons, such as wanting cane sugar instead of corn syrup or gluten-free cookies. More demand will mean these products will become more widely distributed and more affordable over time. So that's a win win.


Aww...this reminds me of my dad, who absolutely loved matzoh and would buy boxes and boxes of them. I...did not understand.


Ha! I was about to share about my dear Irish mother who also loved matzoh. She’d have it buttered with her tea .

Orthodox PP. A lot of my non-Jewish friends love matzah. I used to hate it, but it has grown on me. Especially as I have grown older and had to become more conscious about my calories, I appreciate that matzah has a lot fewer calories per square inch of surface area than bread. A matzah pizza does much less damage than a real pizza


I'm also Orthodox and I eat matzo pizza year round. I love pizza with thin crispy crust and it's hard to get crispier. So glad our minhag is to eat gebrokts!

By the time we get to the Hillel sandwich at the seder, though, it's sometimes enough matzo. Depends on how thick the matzo is. Last year due to Covid we couldn't get our usual Lakewood hand matza and had to use store-bought and it was like eating corrugated cardboard. Expensive corrugated cardboard. We got from Lakewood again this year, though.

Nice to meet you here. Not many of us, but a few
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.


the analogy is really that Jews should not light advent candles. Christmas is mostly secular; passover seders are home-based religious rituals.


Yup! A Christmas tree and Santa have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.


True.

Christmas tree is just a tree. There is no Christmas tree in The Bible. Sant though was an actual Bishop... then Canonized... aka became a Saint.. Saint Nicholas so Santa actually is a Christian element of Christmas. However his wife.. not so much.
As most everyone who knows first thing about the church knows that Bishops don't have wives.. ... ...
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.


the analogy is really that Jews should not light advent candles. Christmas is mostly secular; passover seders are home-based religious rituals.


Yup! A Christmas tree and Santa have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.


True.

Christmas tree is just a tree. There is no Christmas tree in The Bible. Sant though was an actual Bishop... then Canonized... aka became a Saint.. Saint Nicholas so Santa actually is a Christian element of Christmas. However his wife.. not so much.
As most everyone who knows first thing about the church knows that Bishops don't have wives.. ... ...


Yes, but did he fly in a sleigh and give presents to good little boys and girls?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm an Orthodox Jew and I don't mind at all if non-Jews want to make seders for their own families. I find it strange and I don't see value in it, but I don't mind or take offense. If I was going to bother taking offense to Christianity, it would be for the supersessionist sentiments which are far more widespread than makeshift seders.

I am actually happy when non-Jews buy our kosher for Passover products for random reasons, such as wanting cane sugar instead of corn syrup or gluten-free cookies. More demand will mean these products will become more widely distributed and more affordable over time. So that's a win win.


Aww...this reminds me of my dad, who absolutely loved matzoh and would buy boxes and boxes of them. I...did not understand.


Ha! I was about to share about my dear Irish mother who also loved matzoh. She’d have it buttered with her tea .

Orthodox PP. A lot of my non-Jewish friends love matzah. I used to hate it, but it has grown on me. Especially as I have grown older and had to become more conscious about my calories, I appreciate that matzah has a lot fewer calories per square inch of surface area than bread. A matzah pizza does much less damage than a real pizza


I'm also Orthodox and I eat matzo pizza year round. I love pizza with thin crispy crust and it's hard to get crispier. So glad our minhag is to eat gebrokts!

By the time we get to the Hillel sandwich at the seder, though, it's sometimes enough matzo. Depends on how thick the matzo is. Last year due to Covid we couldn't get our usual Lakewood hand matza and had to use store-bought and it was like eating corrugated cardboard. Expensive corrugated cardboard. We got from Lakewood again this year, though.

Nice to meet you here. Not many of us, but a few


That's grandma says.. are we related?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.


the analogy is really that Jews should not light advent candles. Christmas is mostly secular; passover seders are home-based religious rituals.


Yup! A Christmas tree and Santa have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.


True.

Christmas tree is just a tree. There is no Christmas tree in The Bible. Sant though was an actual Bishop... then Canonized... aka became a Saint.. Saint Nicholas so Santa actually is a Christian element of Christmas. However his wife.. not so much.
As most everyone who knows first thing about the church knows that Bishops don't have wives.. ... ...


Yes, but did he fly in a sleigh and give presents to good little boys and girls?



Of course!
Anonymous
The true story of Santa Claus begins with Nicholas,

who was born during the third century in the village of Patara in Asia Minor. At the time the area was Greek and is now on the southern coast of Turkey. His wealthy parents, who raised him to be a devout Christian, died in an epidemic while Nicholas was still young. Obeying Jesus’ words to “sell what you own and give the money to the poor,” Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. He dedicated his life to serving God and was made Bishop of Myra while still a young man. Bishop Nicholas became known throughout the land for his generosity to those in need, his love for children, and his concern for sailors and ships.

Under the Roman Emperor Diocletian, who ruthlessly persecuted Christians, Bishop Nicholas suffered for his faith, was exiled and imprisoned. The prisons were so full of bishops, priests, and deacons, there was no room for the real criminals—murderers, thieves and robbers. After his release, Nicholas attended the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. He died December 6, AD 343 in Myra and was buried in his cathedral church, where a unique relic, called manna, formed in his grave. This liquid substance, said to have healing powers, fostered the growth of devotion to Nicholas. The anniversary of his death became a day of celebration, St. Nicholas Day, December 6th (December 19 on the Julian Calendar).

Through the centuries many stories and legends have been told of St. Nicholas’ life and deeds. These accounts help us understand his extraordinary character and why he is so beloved and revered as protector and helper of those in need.

One story tells of a poor man with three daughters. In those days a young woman’s father had to offer prospective husbands something of value—a dowry. The larger the dowry, the better the chance that a young woman would find a good husband. Without a dowry, a woman was unlikely to marry. This poor man’s daughters, without dowries, were therefore destined to be sold into slavery. Mysteriously, on three different occasions, a bag of gold appeared in their home-providing the needed dowries. The bags of gold, tossed through an open window, are said to have landed in stockings or shoes left before the fire to dry. This led to the custom of children hanging stockings or putting out shoes, eagerly awaiting gifts from Saint Nicholas. Sometimes the story is told with gold balls instead of bags of gold. That is why three gold balls, sometimes represented as oranges, are one of the symbols for St. Nicholas. And so St. Nicholas is a gift-giver.

One of the oldest stories showing St. Nicholas as a protector of children takes place long after his death. The townspeople of Myra were celebrating the good saint on the eve of his feast day when a band of Arab pirates from Crete came into the district. They stole treasures from the Church of Saint Nicholas to take away as booty. As they were leaving town, they snatched a young boy, Basilios, to make into a slave. The emir, or ruler, selected Basilios to be his personal cupbearer, as not knowing the language, Basilios would not understand what the king said to those around him. So, for the next year Basilios waited on the king, bringing his wine in a beautiful golden cup. For Basilios’ parents, devastated at the loss of their only child, the year passed slowly, filled with grief. As the next St. Nicholas’ feast day approached, Basilios’ mother would not join in the festivity, as it was now a day of tragedy. However, she was persuaded to have a simple observance at home—with quiet prayers for Basilios’ safekeeping. Meanwhile, as Basilios was fulfilling his tasks serving the emir, he was suddenly whisked up and away. St. Nicholas appeared to the terrified boy, blessed him, and set him down at his home back in Myra. Imagine the joy and wonderment when Basilios amazingly appeared before his parents, still holding the king’s golden cup. This is the first story told of St. Nicholas protecting children—which became his primary role in the West.


Another story tells of three theological students, traveling on their way to study in Athens. A wicked innkeeper robbed and murdered them, hiding their remains in a large pickling tub. It so happened that Bishop Nicholas, traveling along the same route, stopped at this very inn. In the night he dreamed of the crime, got up, and summoned the innkeeper. As Nicholas prayed earnestly to God the three boys were restored to life and wholeness. In France the story is told of three small children, wandering in their play until lost, lured, and captured by an evil butcher. St. Nicholas appears and appeals to God to return them to life and to their families. And so St. Nicholas is the patron and protector of children.


Several stories tell of Nicholas and the sea. When he was young, Nicholas sought the holy by making a pilgrimage to the Holy Land. There as he walked where Jesus walked, he sought to more deeply experience Jesus’ life, passion, and resurrection. Returning by sea, a mighty storm threatened to wreck the ship. Nicholas calmly prayed. The terrified sailors were amazed when the wind and waves suddenly calmed, sparing them all. And so St. Nicholas is the patron of sailors and voyagers.

Other stories tell of Nicholas saving his people from famine, sparing the lives of those innocently accused, and much more. He did many kind and generous deeds in secret, expecting nothing in return. Within a century of his death he was celebrated as a saint. Today he is venerated in the East as wonder, or miracle worker and in the West as patron of a great variety of persons-children, mariners, bankers, pawn-brokers, scholars, orphans, laborers, travelers, merchants, judges, paupers, marriageable maidens, students, children, sailors, victims of judicial mistakes, captives, perfumers, even thieves and murderers! He is known as the friend and protector of all in trouble or need (see list).

Sailors, claiming St. Nicholas as patron, carried stories of his favor and protection far and wide. St. Nicholas chapels were built in many seaports. As his popularity spread during the Middle Ages, he became the patron saint of Apulia (Italy), Sicily, Greece, and Lorraine (France), and many cities in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Russia, Belgium, and the Netherlands (see list). Following his baptism, Grand Prince Vladimir I brought St. Nicholas’ stories and devotion to St. Nicholas to his homeland where Nicholas became the most beloved saint. Nicholas was so widely revered that thousands of churches were named for him, including three hundred in Belgium, thirty-four in Rome, twenty-three in the Netherlands and more than four hundred in England.

Nicholas’ tomb in Myra became a popular place of pilgrimage. Because of the many wars and attacks in the region, some Christians were concerned that access to the tomb might become difficult. For both the religious and commercial advantages of a major pilgrimage site, the Italian cities of Venice and Bari vied to get the Nicholas relics. In the spring of 1087, sailors from Bari succeeded in spiriting away the bones, bringing them to Bari, a seaport on the southeast coast of Italy. An impressive church was built over St. Nicholas’ crypt and many faithful journeyed to honor the saint who had rescued children, prisoners, sailors, famine victims, and many others through his compassion, generosity, and the countless miracles attributed to his intercession. The Nicholas shrine in Bari was one of medieval Europe’s great pilgrimage centers and Nicholas became known as “Saint in Bari.” To this day pilgrims and tourists visit Bari’s great Basilica di San Nicola.

Through the centuries St. Nicholas has continued to be venerated by Catholics and Orthodox and honored by Protestants. By his example of generosity to those in need, especially children, St. Nicholas continues to be a model for the compassionate life.

Widely celebrated in Europe, St. Nicholas’ feast day, December 6th, kept alive the stories of his goodness and generosity. In Germany and Poland, boys dressed as bishops begged alms for the poor—and sometimes for themselves! In the Netherlands and Belgium, St. Nicholas arrived on a steamship from Spain to ride a white horse on his gift-giving rounds. December 6th is still the main day for gift giving and merrymaking in much of Europe. For example, in the Netherlands St. Nicholas is celebrated on the 5th, the eve of the day, by sharing candies (thrown in the door), chocolate initial letters, small gifts, and riddles. Dutch children leave carrots and hay in their shoes for the saint’s horse, hoping St. Nicholas will exchange them for small gifts. Simple gift-giving in early Advent helps preserve a Christmas Day focus on the Christ Child.


Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.


the analogy is really that Jews should not light advent candles. Christmas is mostly secular; passover seders are home-based religious rituals.


Yup! A Christmas tree and Santa have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.


True.

Christmas tree is just a tree. There is no Christmas tree in The Bible. Sant though was an actual Bishop... then Canonized... aka became a Saint.. Saint Nicholas so Santa actually is a Christian element of Christmas. However his wife.. not so much.
As most everyone who knows first thing about the church knows that Bishops don't have wives.. ... ...


Yes, but did he fly in a sleigh and give presents to good little boys and girls?



He took Uber! everyone knows that.

Now.. Easter and the Easter Eggs.. this is another story.. How in heaven Eggs got into the picture?... Let alone calling them Easter Eggs...
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jews having a Christmas tree is not the same thing as Christians hosting a seder. But thanks for making it all about Christians.
actually it is. As a Christian I believe in the Passover story. A Jewish person does t actually believe Jesus was Gods son.


The Old Testament is part of Christianity. It’s part of the Christian religious tradition. Similarly, much of the Bible also overlaps with the Quran — it’s part of the Islamic religion. I don’t think many Christians realize that Jesus is a prophet in the Quran. Similarly, many Jews discount the relevance of Jewish prophets in Christianity. The three religions have so much overlap that we are called the people of the book.



Sigh. The New Testament is a new covenant which abrogated the law of the Old Testament. That's ... kind of the whole point of Christianity?


This is how once upon a time the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament has been explained to me as a kid..

So..
The entire Old testament is basically the 10 commandments... the rest is to explain and illustrate this.
The New Testament is just one commandment: Though shell love your neighbor like yourself... the rest is to illustrate and explain this.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.


the analogy is really that Jews should not light advent candles. Christmas is mostly secular; passover seders are home-based religious rituals.


Yup! A Christmas tree and Santa have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.


True.

Christmas tree is just a tree. There is no Christmas tree in The Bible. Sant though was an actual Bishop... then Canonized... aka became a Saint.. Saint Nicholas so Santa actually is a Christian element of Christmas. However his wife.. not so much.
As most everyone who knows first thing about the church knows that Bishops don't have wives.. ... ...


Bishops could have wives in the 3rd century. Celibacy was only instituted in the 11th century

Anonymous
The premise of Judaism and Christianity is really different to me. Jews believe that they have a special relationship to G-d and are the chosen people. It’s tribal and exclusionary. Christianity believes that Jesus died to save everyone. Anyone can be saved, if they believe. There’s not much overlain those two world views, no matter how many shared texts they have
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jews having a Christmas tree is not the same thing as Christians hosting a seder. But thanks for making it all about Christians.
actually it is. As a Christian I believe in the Passover story. A Jewish person does t actually believe Jesus was Gods son.


The Old Testament is part of Christianity. It’s part of the Christian religious tradition. Similarly, much of the Bible also overlaps with the Quran — it’s part of the Islamic religion. I don’t think many Christians realize that Jesus is a prophet in the Quran. Similarly, many Jews discount the relevance of Jewish prophets in Christianity. The three religions have so much overlap that we are called the people of the book.



NP. +1
Anonymous
I’m Jewish and worry far more about the erasure of my culture than others’ participating in our rituals. I could care less if Christians host a Seder. Heck, you are welcome to attend mine, too! I feel more anxious about Jews letting go of their own traditions over time. I’m guilty of that myself. I worry the religion will die out.
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