PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found this helpful: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/04/22/adding-jesus-to-a-seder-dinner-not-kosher/

Very good article. Would love the posters on this thread advocating for Christian Seders to respond to this part:

The Christian Seder was first introduced in the 1970s by way of the evangelical movement “Jews for Jesus,” comprised of Jewish converts to Christianity. Preserving Jewish traditions while practicing Christianity has long been their platform, teaching that Jews need not give up their cultural practices to accept Jesus. Evangelicals have readily accepted this new tradition, commingling their own Christianity with the Jewish practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can only read the first part of this article for free, but it clearly states that Jesus didn’t have a Seder, and Christians shouldn’t either. Note that this is a Christian publication.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2017/march-web-only/jesus-didnt-eat-seder-meal.html

I don’t even know where to begin if you’re using this as a source.

Can you show me a reputable source claiming it’s ok for Christians to have a Seder?

The Constitution is the source. Everyone can practice their own brand of religious tradition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can only read the first part of this article for free, but it clearly states that Jesus didn’t have a Seder, and Christians shouldn’t either. Note that this is a Christian publication.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2017/march-web-only/jesus-didnt-eat-seder-meal.html

I don’t even know where to begin if you’re using this as a source.

Can you show me a reputable source claiming it’s ok for Christians to have a Seder?

The Constitution is the source. Everyone can practice their own brand of religious tradition.

There’s a difference between unconstitutional and offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

I mean I believe in accepting everyone but I don't believe in forcing a church to baptize a child. It isn't needed.

So how does this translate to, "All are welcome, and all means all"? Please do explain it to me. All are clearly not welcome. Even if my friend just wanted to attend with his spouse and child, baptism aside, he would NOT be welcome. I don't believe for a second that PP's church would be a welcoming place for an openly gay couple and a child born using science.

I've never heard of a "homophobic" person or literally anyone being turned away from a pride parade so that's just a silly comparison.

Point is you are welcome if you follow their rules. You know you don't have to join a church that doesn't welcome you?

[Anonymous]

Another great quote from that WaPo article:

In the United States, some elements of Jewish culture have gone mainstream: Many people enjoy bagels and know a few Yiddish words. But the true value of the Seder isn’t the matzoh ball soup. Judaism isn’t just a bunch of cultural artifacts, it’s a living religion, with customs that are sacred to millions of people. To appreciate Jewish culture is one thing; to borrow the rites of a major holiday for a completely alien purpose is another. It disrespects the Jewishness of the seder — a painful irony for a festival that’s centered around the early days of the Jewish history of marginalization, persecution, even extermination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

I mean I believe in accepting everyone but I don't believe in forcing a church to baptize a child. It isn't needed.

So how does this translate to, "All are welcome, and all means all"? Please do explain it to me. All are clearly not welcome. Even if my friend just wanted to attend with his spouse and child, baptism aside, he would NOT be welcome. I don't believe for a second that PP's church would be a welcoming place for an openly gay couple and a child born using science.

I've never heard of a "homophobic" person or literally anyone being turned away from a pride parade so that's just a silly comparison.

Point is you are welcome if you follow their rules. You know you don't have to join a church that doesn't welcome you?

Doesn’t sound too welcoming to me. I thought it was “all are welcome, and all means all.”

Not quite true, eh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

I mean I believe in accepting everyone but I don't believe in forcing a church to baptize a child. It isn't needed.

So how does this translate to, "All are welcome, and all means all"? Please do explain it to me. All are clearly not welcome. Even if my friend just wanted to attend with his spouse and child, baptism aside, he would NOT be welcome. I don't believe for a second that PP's church would be a welcoming place for an openly gay couple and a child born using science.

I've never heard of a "homophobic" person or literally anyone being turned away from a pride parade so that's just a silly comparison.

Point is you are welcome if you follow their rules. You know you don't have to join a church that doesn't welcome you?

Not all Christian denominations are the same, morons. We have gay marriage ceremonies in mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

I mean I believe in accepting everyone but I don't believe in forcing a church to baptize a child. It isn't needed.

So how does this translate to, "All are welcome, and all means all"? Please do explain it to me. All are clearly not welcome. Even if my friend just wanted to attend with his spouse and child, baptism aside, he would NOT be welcome. I don't believe for a second that PP's church would be a welcoming place for an openly gay couple and a child born using science.

I've never heard of a "homophobic" person or literally anyone being turned away from a pride parade so that's just a silly comparison.

Point is you are welcome if you follow their rules. You know you don't have to join a church that doesn't welcome you?

Not all Christian denominations are the same, morons. We have gay marriage ceremonies in mine.

Well, great for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

I mean I believe in accepting everyone but I don't believe in forcing a church to baptize a child. It isn't needed.

So how does this translate to, "All are welcome, and all means all"? Please do explain it to me. All are clearly not welcome. Even if my friend just wanted to attend with his spouse and child, baptism aside, he would NOT be welcome. I don't believe for a second that PP's church would be a welcoming place for an openly gay couple and a child born using science.

I've never heard of a "homophobic" person or literally anyone being turned away from a pride parade so that's just a silly comparison.

Point is you are welcome if you follow their rules. You know you don't have to join a church that doesn't welcome you?

Not all Christian denominations are the same, morons. We have gay marriage ceremonies in mine.

And you refer to people who don't understand your church as "morons"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a subversion of a sacred Jewish tradition. That’s why it’s offensive.

Would you question why a Muslim finds people drawing Mohammed offensive? Or why a Christian would find burning the Cross offensive?

But Christians trying to celebrate a Passover are not drawing offensive pictures or burning Jewish symbols. They are viewing it as something sacred and observing it as respectfully as they know how. I understand that many Jewish posters feel that they are doing it incorrectly and that to do it at all is inappropriate, but they are doing so to honor a part of their religious heritage which has tremendous meaning for them.

Perhaps a better hypothetical would be if a Christian would find it offensive if a non-Christian practiced Baptism or the Lord's Supper as part of another religion's observance. I won't speak for all Christians, but personally, while I might view it as misguided and ineffective, I would not take offense at sincere, reverent worship.

Except the last supper wasn’t even a Passover Seder. So it’s inaccurate to say it has meaning for them.

Actually it was. Only obscure historians have argued (because they need something to write about) that it may not have been.

Only Jewish historians have argued (because they need something to write about) that it may not have been.

Fixed that for you.

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to picture this -- so you're Christian, having a "seder" and you talk about how you were once slaves in Egypt? And at the end you say, "Next year in Jerusalem?"

Doesn't this feel like cosplay to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another great quote from that WaPo article:

In the United States, some elements of Jewish culture have gone mainstream: Many people enjoy bagels and know a few Yiddish words. But the true value of the Seder isn’t the matzoh ball soup. Judaism isn’t just a bunch of cultural artifacts, it’s a living religion, with customs that are sacred to millions of people. To appreciate Jewish culture is one thing; to borrow the rites of a major holiday for a completely alien purpose is another. It disrespects the Jewishness of the seder — a painful irony for a festival that’s centered around the early days of the Jewish history of marginalization, persecution, even extermination.

I’m the Catholic poster above who described the inauthenticity and shallowness of the few parish Seders (it feels wrong even calling these events a Seder). I also posted the Post article above. I fully concur with everything the author of the article said. I don’t know if I am going too far in calling Christian Seders antisemitic actions but it kind of feels that way right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.

the analogy is really that Jews should not light advent candles. Christmas is mostly secular; passover seders are home-based religious rituals.

Yup! A Christmas tree and Santa have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.

The F? Santa is based on st Nicholas. The holiday celebrates the birth of Christ. IT’S NOT A SECULAR HOLIDAY, stop trying to appropriate it as one.

[Anonymous]

I don't care what people decide to celebrate. The world would be better if all of you didn't as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to picture this -- so you're Christian, having a "seder" and you talk about how you were once slaves in Egypt? And at the end you say, "Next year in Jerusalem?"

Doesn't this feel like cosplay to you?

I get your point, but in many cases it's even worse because they are actually removing the content from the Haggadah and inserting the stories of Jesus from the New Testament. As a Christian, I really can't wrap my head around other Christians who don't approach this with the golden rule. If I imagine being in a country where I was a religious minority, and people from the religious majority wanted to use a sacred Christian holiday but take away all the religious content from my faith and insert their own religious texts, I would find that very disrespectful.