PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

Lots of denominations will do this. Maybe just not the one he wants.

Define “lots.” Tell us precisely which ones.

Episcopal Church (all of them)
Presbyterian Church (all of them)
Unitarian Universalist Church
United Church of Christ

I'm sure there are other denominations as well.

And yet large denominations, like evangelical Protestants of many types and the Catholic Church do not.

Yes. Indeed. Did you have a point?

My point is that 4 denominations being tolerant is not “lots” as the PP stated and that Christianity, in general, remains mostly very intolerant.

It's the majority of mainstream Protestantism. It is, actually lots. Christianity cannot be painted with that broad of a brush. Nor can Judaisim.

Calling it mainstream makes it sound more common than evangelical Protestantism, which it is not. There are more evangelical Protestants in the USA than there are mainline Protestants.

Yes, and there are more Trumpsters than progressives. Doesn't mean Trumpsters represent Americans more than progressives.

Only 16% of Christian Americans are mainline Protestant. The rest are Evangelical Protestants, Catholics, or Eastern Orthodox. So yeah, I’d say those who are part of Churches that oppose gay marriage comprise many more Americans than those who are part of tolerant churches.

[Anonymous]

PP stop derailing the thread. If you want help identifying a place to baptize your child, then start a separate thread. That is not the point of this thread.

[Anonymous]

Question for the Jews in this thread: what do you do when a Christian tells you they celebrate Passover or other Jewish holidays?

I know lots of Christians who do this and they tell me thinking I’ll be excited and happy they’re celebrating. They have no idea it’s offensive. I’m not looking to get into a confrontation, but it makes me uncomfortable. Has anyone dealt with this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question for the Jews in this thread: what do you do when a Christian tells you they celebrate Passover or other Jewish holidays?

I know lots of Christians who do this and they tell me thinking I’ll be excited and happy they’re celebrating. They have no idea it’s offensive. I’m not looking to get into a confrontation, but it makes me uncomfortable. Has anyone dealt with this?

I only know one person who does this, a very sweet co-worker. I just nod and smile and come home to vent to my friends and family.

Honestly, it's one of the things I miss about NY, I didn't run into this crap when I lived there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for the Jews in this thread: what do you do when a Christian tells you they celebrate Passover or other Jewish holidays?

I know lots of Christians who do this and they tell me thinking I’ll be excited and happy they’re celebrating. They have no idea it’s offensive. I’m not looking to get into a confrontation, but it makes me uncomfortable. Has anyone dealt with this?

I only know one person who does this, a very sweet co-worker. I just nod and smile and come home to vent to my friends and family.

Honestly, it's one of the things I miss about NY, I didn't run into this crap when I lived there!

Same! I got so used to being around a lot of other Jews or at least people who know something about Judaism.

I was at a wedding in VA maybe 3 years ago when the person next to me asked my religion (weird to begin with) and then said “I just can’t imagine what your religion could be without Jesus in it.”

Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has someone already quoted Luke 22?

The Festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called Passover, was drawing near. 2 The chief priests and the scribes were looking for a way to put Him to death, because they were afraid of the people.

3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, who was numbered among the Twelve. 4 He went away and discussed with the chief priests and temple police how he could hand Him over to them. 5 They were glad and agreed to give him silver.[a] 6 So he accepted the offer and started looking for a good opportunity to betray Him to them when the crowd was not present.

yes ... you know when we hear this reading? during Easter services. E.a.s.t.e.r. That is the Christian observation of Jesus’s Last Supper. Easter. Easter!!!!!!!

For someone who really doesn't want Christians to tell Jews what their religion says, you seem to do a lot of the reverse. Easter in my religion is a celebration of the resurrection of Christ. Having rituals that tie us closer to the Old Testament covenant (because yes, some Christians believe that we have been adopted into the House of Israel) is a totally legitimate purpose that does nothing to denigrate Jews.

Should Catholics be able to demand that Baptists stop being baptized by immersion because they "appropriated the practice" and now do it differently?

As much as you may not like it, Jews and Christians do share a common origin, and that can be interpreted in various ways. Why not consider Christians as allies rather than enemies. None of us were alive when "your people" were being persecuted by Christians during the Middle Ages.

If, instead, PP, you are a Christian lecturing other Christians about Easter, you should know that the reason there are hundreds of denominations is that we don't all agree about everything.

Please discuss this with your priest or pastor. There is no missing piece of Christianity that makes you need to take over the Jewish seder as a way to express your connection to the Old Testament, Exodus, or Passover. These concepts are already fully integrated into Christianity, if not central to it. Why do you think you call Jesus the Lamb of God whose sacrifice saves humanity? Commemorate the Last Supper at communion? It’s all there, already. Conversely the seder is a wholly Jewish ritual which has nothing to do with Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has someone already quoted Luke 22?

The Festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called Passover, was drawing near. 2 The chief priests and the scribes were looking for a way to put Him to death, because they were afraid of the people.

3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, who was numbered among the Twelve. 4 He went away and discussed with the chief priests and temple police how he could hand Him over to them. 5 They were glad and agreed to give him silver.[a] 6 So he accepted the offer and started looking for a good opportunity to betray Him to them when the crowd was not present.

yes ... you know when we hear this reading? during Easter services. E.a.s.t.e.r. That is the Christian observation of Jesus’s Last Supper. Easter. Easter!!!!!!!

For someone who really doesn't want Christians to tell Jews what their religion says, you seem to do a lot of the reverse. Easter in my religion is a celebration of the resurrection of Christ. Having rituals that tie us closer to the Old Testament covenant (because yes, some Christians believe that we have been adopted into the House of Israel) is a totally legitimate purpose that does nothing to denigrate Jews.

Should Catholics be able to demand that Baptists stop being baptized by immersion because they "appropriated the practice" and now do it differently?

As much as you may not like it, Jews and Christians do share a common origin, and that can be interpreted in various ways. Why not consider Christians as allies rather than enemies. None of us were alive when "your people" were being persecuted by Christians during the Middle Ages.

If, instead, PP, you are a Christian lecturing other Christians about Easter, you should know that the reason there are hundreds of denominations is that we don't all agree about everything.

Please discuss this with your priest or pastor. There is no missing piece of Christianity that makes you need to take over the Jewish seder as a way to express your connection to the Old Testament, Exodus, or Passover. These concepts are already fully integrated into Christianity, if not central to it. Why do you think you call Jesus the Lamb of God whose sacrifice saves humanity? Commemorate the Last Supper at communion? It’s all there, already. Conversely the seder is a wholly Jewish ritual which has nothing to do with Jesus.

All of this reminds me of how the Jesuit priest I used to talk to a lot when I was at Georgetown told me that many Catholics are hopelessly ignorant about their own religion. Seems this is true of many on this thread, Catholic or some other denomination of Christianity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has someone already quoted Luke 22?

The Festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called Passover, was drawing near. 2 The chief priests and the scribes were looking for a way to put Him to death, because they were afraid of the people.

3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, who was numbered among the Twelve. 4 He went away and discussed with the chief priests and temple police how he could hand Him over to them. 5 They were glad and agreed to give him silver.[a] 6 So he accepted the offer and started looking for a good opportunity to betray Him to them when the crowd was not present.

yes ... you know when we hear this reading? during Easter services. E.a.s.t.e.r. That is the Christian observation of Jesus’s Last Supper. Easter. Easter!!!!!!!

For someone who really doesn't want Christians to tell Jews what their religion says, you seem to do a lot of the reverse. Easter in my religion is a celebration of the resurrection of Christ. Having rituals that tie us closer to the Old Testament covenant (because yes, some Christians believe that we have been adopted into the House of Israel) is a totally legitimate purpose that does nothing to denigrate Jews.

Should Catholics be able to demand that Baptists stop being baptized by immersion because they "appropriated the practice" and now do it differently?

As much as you may not like it, Jews and Christians do share a common origin, and that can be interpreted in various ways. Why not consider Christians as allies rather than enemies. None of us were alive when "your people" were being persecuted by Christians during the Middle Ages.

If, instead, PP, you are a Christian lecturing other Christians about Easter, you should know that the reason there are hundreds of denominations is that we don't all agree about everything.

Please discuss this with your priest or pastor. There is no missing piece of Christianity that makes you need to take over the Jewish seder as a way to express your connection to the Old Testament, Exodus, or Passover. These concepts are already fully integrated into Christianity, if not central to it. Why do you think you call Jesus the Lamb of God whose sacrifice saves humanity? Commemorate the Last Supper at communion? It’s all there, already. Conversely the seder is a wholly Jewish ritual which has nothing to do with Jesus.

All of this reminds me of how the Jesuit priest I used to talk to a lot when I was at Georgetown told me that many Catholics are hopelessly ignorant about their own religion. Seems this is true of many on this thread, Catholic or some other denomination of Christianity.

Pretty much. Ignorant plus insensitive. Not the greatest combo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder: if any other minority group was saying something was offensive to them, would they be getting this much pushback?

You mean like a mocking Broadway musical? Yeah, there are other minority religions who get offended too.

The Mormons actually took out ads in the playbills for Book of Mormon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder: if any other minority group was saying something was offensive to them, would they be getting this much pushback?

You mean like a mocking Broadway musical? Yeah, there are other minority religions who get offended too.

The Mormons actually took out ads in the playbills for Book of Mormon.

the proper analogy would be people wearing the Mormon undergarment because it just made them feel spiritual or whatever. Or having a fake endowment ceremony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has someone already quoted Luke 22?

The Festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called Passover, was drawing near. 2 The chief priests and the scribes were looking for a way to put Him to death, because they were afraid of the people.

3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, who was numbered among the Twelve. 4 He went away and discussed with the chief priests and temple police how he could hand Him over to them. 5 They were glad and agreed to give him silver.[a] 6 So he accepted the offer and started looking for a good opportunity to betray Him to them when the crowd was not present.

yes ... you know when we hear this reading? during Easter services. E.a.s.t.e.r. That is the Christian observation of Jesus’s Last Supper. Easter. Easter!!!!!!!

For someone who really doesn't want Christians to tell Jews what their religion says, you seem to do a lot of the reverse. Easter in my religion is a celebration of the resurrection of Christ. Having rituals that tie us closer to the Old Testament covenant (because yes, some Christians believe that we have been adopted into the House of Israel) is a totally legitimate purpose that does nothing to denigrate Jews.

Should Catholics be able to demand that Baptists stop being baptized by immersion because they "appropriated the practice" and now do it differently?

As much as you may not like it, Jews and Christians do share a common origin, and that can be interpreted in various ways. Why not consider Christians as allies rather than enemies. None of us were alive when "your people" were being persecuted by Christians during the Middle Ages.

If, instead, PP, you are a Christian lecturing other Christians about Easter, you should know that the reason there are hundreds of denominations is that we don't all agree about everything.

Please discuss this with your priest or pastor. There is no missing piece of Christianity that makes you need to take over the Jewish seder as a way to express your connection to the Old Testament, Exodus, or Passover. These concepts are already fully integrated into Christianity, if not central to it. Why do you think you call Jesus the Lamb of God whose sacrifice saves humanity? Commemorate the Last Supper at communion? It’s all there, already. Conversely the seder is a wholly Jewish ritual which has nothing to do with Jesus.

All of this reminds me of how the Jesuit priest I used to talk to a lot when I was at Georgetown told me that many Catholics are hopelessly ignorant about their own religion. Seems this is true of many on this thread, Catholic or some other denomination of Christianity.

Because you are an expert about all Christian denominations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder: if any other minority group was saying something was offensive to them, would they be getting this much pushback?

You mean like a mocking Broadway musical? Yeah, there are other minority religions who get offended too.

The Mormons actually took out ads in the playbills for Book of Mormon.

the proper analogy would be people wearing the Mormon undergarment because it just made them feel spiritual or whatever. Or having a fake endowment ceremony.

Yes, we did. Because the alternative would look rather grumpy, kind of like the people in this thread. But it doesn't mean that the musical wasn't offensive. It was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has someone already quoted Luke 22?

The Festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called Passover, was drawing near. 2 The chief priests and the scribes were looking for a way to put Him to death, because they were afraid of the people.

3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, who was numbered among the Twelve. 4 He went away and discussed with the chief priests and temple police how he could hand Him over to them. 5 They were glad and agreed to give him silver.[a] 6 So he accepted the offer and started looking for a good opportunity to betray Him to them when the crowd was not present.

yes ... you know when we hear this reading? during Easter services. E.a.s.t.e.r. That is the Christian observation of Jesus’s Last Supper. Easter. Easter!!!!!!!

For someone who really doesn't want Christians to tell Jews what their religion says, you seem to do a lot of the reverse. Easter in my religion is a celebration of the resurrection of Christ. Having rituals that tie us closer to the Old Testament covenant (because yes, some Christians believe that we have been adopted into the House of Israel) is a totally legitimate purpose that does nothing to denigrate Jews.

Should Catholics be able to demand that Baptists stop being baptized by immersion because they "appropriated the practice" and now do it differently?

As much as you may not like it, Jews and Christians do share a common origin, and that can be interpreted in various ways. Why not consider Christians as allies rather than enemies. None of us were alive when "your people" were being persecuted by Christians during the Middle Ages.

If, instead, PP, you are a Christian lecturing other Christians about Easter, you should know that the reason there are hundreds of denominations is that we don't all agree about everything.

Please discuss this with your priest or pastor. There is no missing piece of Christianity that makes you need to take over the Jewish seder as a way to express your connection to the Old Testament, Exodus, or Passover. These concepts are already fully integrated into Christianity, if not central to it. Why do you think you call Jesus the Lamb of God whose sacrifice saves humanity? Commemorate the Last Supper at communion? It’s all there, already. Conversely the seder is a wholly Jewish ritual which has nothing to do with Jesus.

I agree with both you and PP before you. There were very early Christians who did celebrate Jewish holidays and also very early Christians who thought this was terrible and that Christians would slip into Judaism.

Is it possible for Christians, in celebrating Christ and doing their rituals for remembering him and his life, also honor his celebration and remembrance of the liberation of Israelites in Ancient Egypt? Or is it possible for Christians as a theoretically "good" people to want to honor the liberation of Israelites one thousand four hundred years before the common era? Is everyone allowed to celebrate Juneteenth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has someone already quoted Luke 22?

The Festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called Passover, was drawing near. 2 The chief priests and the scribes were looking for a way to put Him to death, because they were afraid of the people.

3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, who was numbered among the Twelve. 4 He went away and discussed with the chief priests and temple police how he could hand Him over to them. 5 They were glad and agreed to give him silver.[a] 6 So he accepted the offer and started looking for a good opportunity to betray Him to them when the crowd was not present.

yes ... you know when we hear this reading? during Easter services. E.a.s.t.e.r. That is the Christian observation of Jesus’s Last Supper. Easter. Easter!!!!!!!

For someone who really doesn't want Christians to tell Jews what their religion says, you seem to do a lot of the reverse. Easter in my religion is a celebration of the resurrection of Christ. Having rituals that tie us closer to the Old Testament covenant (because yes, some Christians believe that we have been adopted into the House of Israel) is a totally legitimate purpose that does nothing to denigrate Jews.

Should Catholics be able to demand that Baptists stop being baptized by immersion because they "appropriated the practice" and now do it differently?

As much as you may not like it, Jews and Christians do share a common origin, and that can be interpreted in various ways. Why not consider Christians as allies rather than enemies. None of us were alive when "your people" were being persecuted by Christians during the Middle Ages.

If, instead, PP, you are a Christian lecturing other Christians about Easter, you should know that the reason there are hundreds of denominations is that we don't all agree about everything.

Please discuss this with your priest or pastor. There is no missing piece of Christianity that makes you need to take over the Jewish seder as a way to express your connection to the Old Testament, Exodus, or Passover. These concepts are already fully integrated into Christianity, if not central to it. Why do you think you call Jesus the Lamb of God whose sacrifice saves humanity? Commemorate the Last Supper at communion? It’s all there, already. Conversely the seder is a wholly Jewish ritual which has nothing to do with Jesus.

I agree with both you and PP before you. There were very early Christians who did celebrate Jewish holidays and also very early Christians who thought this was terrible and that Christians would slip into Judaism.

Is it possible for Christians, in celebrating Christ and doing their rituals for remembering him and his life, also honor his celebration and remembrance of the liberation of Israelites in Ancient Egypt? Or is it possible for Christians as a theoretically "good" people to want to honor the liberation of Israelites one thousand four hundred years before the common era? Is everyone allowed to celebrate Juneteenth?

Please hold a Juneteenth party in SE - I dare you. Super offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has someone already quoted Luke 22?

The Festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called Passover, was drawing near. 2 The chief priests and the scribes were looking for a way to put Him to death, because they were afraid of the people.

3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, who was numbered among the Twelve. 4 He went away and discussed with the chief priests and temple police how he could hand Him over to them. 5 They were glad and agreed to give him silver.[a] 6 So he accepted the offer and started looking for a good opportunity to betray Him to them when the crowd was not present.

yes ... you know when we hear this reading? during Easter services. E.a.s.t.e.r. That is the Christian observation of Jesus’s Last Supper. Easter. Easter!!!!!!!

For someone who really doesn't want Christians to tell Jews what their religion says, you seem to do a lot of the reverse. Easter in my religion is a celebration of the resurrection of Christ. Having rituals that tie us closer to the Old Testament covenant (because yes, some Christians believe that we have been adopted into the House of Israel) is a totally legitimate purpose that does nothing to denigrate Jews.

Should Catholics be able to demand that Baptists stop being baptized by immersion because they "appropriated the practice" and now do it differently?

As much as you may not like it, Jews and Christians do share a common origin, and that can be interpreted in various ways. Why not consider Christians as allies rather than enemies. None of us were alive when "your people" were being persecuted by Christians during the Middle Ages.

If, instead, PP, you are a Christian lecturing other Christians about Easter, you should know that the reason there are hundreds of denominations is that we don't all agree about everything.

Please discuss this with your priest or pastor. There is no missing piece of Christianity that makes you need to take over the Jewish seder as a way to express your connection to the Old Testament, Exodus, or Passover. These concepts are already fully integrated into Christianity, if not central to it. Why do you think you call Jesus the Lamb of God whose sacrifice saves humanity? Commemorate the Last Supper at communion? It’s all there, already. Conversely the seder is a wholly Jewish ritual which has nothing to do with Jesus.

https://theshalomcenter.org/sites/default/files/mlk50_interfaith_freedom_seder_pdf-_b_copy.pdf

I found this link while reviewing some of the links shared in this thread. It seems to me this could be beautiful without the air of appropriation. Thoughts?