What is a Tiger Mom? If you are one how are you different from everyone else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, teaching is a calling. Which is why someone easily dissuaded from pursuing it because it does not pay a lot probably would not have been a good teacher anyway.

Good grief. Teaching is not a calling at all. Teaching is a profession that less intelligent people choose over becoming an administrative assistant. Teachers, as a group, have the lowest SAT scores, lowest IQs, and lowest GPAs. They all may say "Its a calling" but if they had better skills or more academic potential they would have chosen something else.

Saying "teaching is a calling" is as dumb as saying " being a SAHM is the toughest job in the world". Neither are true but they make the people in those position feel good about themselves.

Wow.. how do you know this to be true? Or is it maybe because your kid's teacher didn't agree with you about something.

You don't have to be a genius to teach, and I've had my share of dumb teachers when I was in school, but as a group are they dumb? IDK - I've not seen any study that indicates this. Do you have such information? And yeah, you're right about not all teachers are called to it. But that doesn't mean they are dumb. Now a days, I think they need to pass a teacher's exam or something similar, right? So now a day teachers can't be that dumb.

[Anonymous]

I am not at all impressed with the tiger moms I meet. They seem to resent the white moms. See some of the prior posts - the posts that would be called racist *only if* they were written by a white person. How on earth is that??!! Racism is racism.

Life is about more than rote memorization, workbooks and test scores. I happen to know that personally; and let's just say I am very, very in touch with what is currently happening at the top colleges and universities admissions offices.

Some people are terribly misinformed. They may think they know better, but it has been proven, they do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, teaching is a calling. Which is why someone easily dissuaded from pursuing it because it does not pay a lot probably would not have been a good teacher anyway.

Good grief. Teaching is not a calling at all. Teaching is a profession that less intelligent people choose over becoming an administrative assistant. Teachers, as a group, have the lowest SAT scores, lowest IQs, and lowest GPAs. They all may say "Its a calling" but if they had better skills or more academic potential they would have chosen something else.

Saying "teaching is a calling" is as dumb as saying " being a SAHM is the toughest job in the world". Neither are true but they make the people in those position feel good about themselves.

My Princeton roommate is a teacher. So is another close friend who went to another ivy. So is another friend who went to UVA. Not a low SAT score or GPA among them. All could have done "something else". You don't know what you are talking about. (And we're in our 50s so I'm not talking about two years of Teach for America, we were before that).

But lets step back for a moment. These are the people teaching our children. if you think so poorly of them, why aren't you homeschooling?

Personally I am grateful to the men and women who have taught my children. I have two teens who love learning and have intellectual passions. That came from their highly skilled and passionate teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not at all impressed with the tiger moms I meet. They seem to resent the white moms. See some of the prior posts - the posts that would be called racist *only if* they were written by a white person. How on earth is that??!! Racism is racism.

Life is about more than rote memorization, workbooks and test scores. I happen to know that personally; and let's just say I am very, very in touch with what is currently happening at the top colleges and universities admissions offices.

Some people are terribly misinformed. They may think they know better, but it has been proven, they do not.

Some Asians are racists, but how do they resent white moms? Most of the posts I see here are resentful of the Asian tiger moms, not the white moms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not at all impressed with the tiger moms I meet. They seem to resent the white moms. See some of the prior posts - the posts that would be called racist *only if* they were written by a white person. How on earth is that??!! Racism is racism.

Life is about more than rote memorization, workbooks and test scores. I happen to know that personally; and let's just say I am very, very in touch with what is currently happening at the top colleges and universities admissions offices.

Some people are terribly misinformed. They may think they know better, but it has been proven, they do not.

Some Asians are racists, but how do they resent white moms? Most of the posts I see here are resentful of the Asian tiger moms, not the white moms.

+1

I am an Asian and have been amazed at the antagonism displayed against Asian parenting and how it allegedly results in an adverse impact on our children. Asian children have been accused of lacking creativity, social skills, leadership potential, learning by rote, how they resent their parents when they become adults and on and on. Some of this is caused by racism, some because of the resentment of the success that Asians have achieved and there is a lot of stereotyping which surfaces repeatedly.

I have followed threads on TJ where the resentment against Asians is palpable. The irony is that Asian children are admitted to TJ based on criteria that were developed primarily by administrators who are predominantly white.

But as an Asian immigrant - and now a proud American citizen - I never lose sight of the opportunities that the US has offered us. For this I am eternally grateful............

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, teaching is a calling. Which is why someone easily dissuaded from pursuing it because it does not pay a lot probably would not have been a good teacher anyway.

Good grief. Teaching is not a calling at all. Teaching is a profession that less intelligent people choose over becoming an administrative assistant. Teachers, as a group, have the lowest SAT scores, lowest IQs, and lowest GPAs. They all may say "Its a calling" but if they had better skills or more academic potential they would have chosen something else.

Saying "teaching is a calling" is as dumb as saying " being a SAHM is the toughest job in the world". Neither are true but they make the people in those position feel good about themselves.

My Princeton roommate is a teacher. So is another close friend who went to another ivy. So is another friend who went to UVA. Not a low SAT score or GPA among them. All could have done "something else". You don't know what you are talking about. (And we're in our 50s so I'm not talking about two years of Teach for America, we were before that).

But lets step back for a moment. These are the people teaching our children. if you think so poorly of them, why aren't you homeschooling?

Personally I am grateful to the men and women who have taught my children. I have two teens who love learning and have intellectual passions. That came from their highly skilled and passionate teachers.

Thank you, PP!

You can add the following to the list of "dumb teachers":

-my cousin who graduated from Georgetown with a 4.0
-my aunt, a Phi Beta Kappa Wellesley grad
-one of my former roommates at Columbia (who graduated magna cum laude)
-one of my closest childhood friends, a graduate of Brown
-my brother's best friend, a Stanford alum

All of these people were also National Merit Scholars. What idiots! Clearly none of them had any other viable career options!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, teaching is a calling. Which is why someone easily dissuaded from pursuing it because it does not pay a lot probably would not have been a good teacher anyway.

Good grief. Teaching is not a calling at all. Teaching is a profession that less intelligent people choose over becoming an administrative assistant. Teachers, as a group, have the lowest SAT scores, lowest IQs, and lowest GPAs. They all may say "Its a calling" but if they had better skills or more academic potential they would have chosen something else.

Saying "teaching is a calling" is as dumb as saying " being a SAHM is the toughest job in the world". Neither are true but they make the people in those position feel good about themselves.

I agree with this PP that the majority of teachers enter the profession not because of any "calling" but because it is a job they could get. Sure there are those who are well educated and qualified who would have been able to get into another occupation that paid better but this really is a minority.

Most teachers would likely not make the grade in the more demanding professions. It is this relatively low threshold to become a teacher that results in the mediocrity that we find in the cadre of teachers in the US. Compare the threshold for entry in the US with Finland - which is often cited as a model for education - where to become a teacher even in an elementary school one needs a masters degree.

Here is an excerpt from an article about what it entails to be a teacher in Finland:

What has resulted is a skilled teacher workforce that is consistently rated one of the most admired professions in Finland, ahead of medical doctors, architects, and lawyers. Being a teacher even seems to improve your marriage options: In a recent national opinion survey, Finns were asked to choose five professions that would be preferred for a partner or spouse, and 35% included teacher among the top five preferred professions for the ideal spouse.

Becoming a teacher in Finland is as competitive as getting into an Ivy League school, and Finland offers no other route into the profession. So, there is no Teach for Finland. To teach in Finland requires a five-year master's degree in education. Admission to a teacher preparation program includes a national entrance exam and a personal interview. Only one of every 10 applicants is accepted into a teacher preparation program in Finland; competition to become a primary school teacher is even tougher, with 1,789 applicants for only 120 spots, for example, at the University of Helsinki in 2011-12. Only eight universities offer teacher preparation programs in Finland, which allows the country to ensure consistency from program to program. Contrast that with Minnesota which has about the same population as Finland (5.2 million) but about 30 colleges that offer teacher preparation programs.

Sahlberg speculates that the Finns can attract the top quintile of all high school graduates to teaching because the rigors of the master's degree, which includes a thesis with substantial scholarly requirements, makes the program challenging enough to appeal to the top students.

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/transforming_learning/2012/11/finlands_secret_sauce_its_teachers.html

Most teachers in the US would never make the grade in Finland.

[Anonymous]

Agree 100%. An interesting comparison is that if you look at IQ scores by nation surprisingly Finland ranks well below the US (and the US isn't that high) but then if you compare academic achievement, Finland is at the top and the US is toward the bottom.

Americans may on a whole have more genetically smarter people BUT we are lazy and set our academic standards very low. Finland proves that academic achievement is attainable if the bar is set high regardless of IQ.

Several Asian counties are at the top of the IQ chart and academic achievement but anecdotally the big difference that I see between the Asian approach to education and Americans is attitude. Asians don't give a shit about IQ, they assume academic achievement comes through achievement and hard work. If you smart, you work hard in school. If you are not smart, you just work harder. Americans have this belief that it should be easy and no one should ever struggle to succeed. The system is designed to never challenge kids or require them to stretch to their potential.

[Anonymous]

That is not why Finland students do well, it isn't about setting the bar high. The reason is because their educational philosophy is holistic. They meet the children where there are and if there is something going on in the child's life interfering with their ability to learn, the teachers consider it their responsibility to get involved and help. In other words, the teachers do not see their responsibility as to present the materials and the tests and simply require the kids to keep up. Rather, their responsibility is to do what it takes to ensure the kids do keep up.

Furthermore, Finland is a small country with far, far greater social supports than we have here. If a child shows up for school hungry, without adequate health care, from a troubled home, that child cannot learn regardless of how high you set expectations. In Finland, the kids eat, have health care and have social supports.

So if you want to follow Finland's lead, support higher taxes for social programs and wrap around services in the schools.

[Anonymous]

Finland does well, as a country (!!!) because of its dedication to children.

China fails, in so many ways, because it has one goal - to be world leader.

Much like the moms who live in each. It is not rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is not why Finland students do well, it isn't about setting the bar high. The reason is because their educational philosophy is holistic. They meet the children where there are and if there is something going on in the child's life interfering with their ability to learn, the teachers consider it their responsibility to get involved and help. In other words, the teachers do not see their responsibility as to present the materials and the tests and simply require the kids to keep up. Rather, their responsibility is to do what it takes to ensure the kids do keep up.

Furthermore, Finland is a small country with far, far greater social supports than we have here. If a child shows up for school hungry, without adequate health care, from a troubled home, that child cannot learn regardless of how high you set expectations. In Finland, the kids eat, have health care and have social supports.

So if you want to follow Finland's lead, support higher taxes for social programs and wrap around services in the schools.

This is mainly because Finland doesn't have Central America under them. They also don't spend billions on butting their nose in every other country's business. So their tax system actually works well for their own people and benefits the children very well. It isn't rocket science and I am jealous not to be apart of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Finland does well, as a country (!!!) because of its dedication to children.

China fails, in so many ways, because it has one goal - to be world leader.

Much like the moms who live in each. It is not rocket science.

Lol - I just realized I posted "it's not rocket science" too. Guess we are on the same page here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is not why Finland students do well, it isn't about setting the bar high. The reason is because their educational philosophy is holistic. They meet the children where there are and if there is something going on in the child's life interfering with their ability to learn, the teachers consider it their responsibility to get involved and help. In other words, the teachers do not see their responsibility as to present the materials and the tests and simply require the kids to keep up. Rather, their responsibility is to do what it takes to ensure the kids do keep up.

Furthermore, Finland is a small country with far, far greater social supports than we have here. If a child shows up for school hungry, without adequate health care, from a troubled home, that child cannot learn regardless of how high you set expectations. In Finland, the kids eat, have health care and have social supports.

So if you want to follow Finland's lead, support higher taxes for social programs and wrap around services in the schools.

This is mainly because Finland doesn't have Central America under them. They also don't spend billions on butting their nose in every other country's business. So their tax system actually works well for their own people and benefits the children very well. It isn't rocket science and I am jealous not to be apart of it.

I have no idea what this means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is not why Finland students do well, it isn't about setting the bar high. The reason is because their educational philosophy is holistic. They meet the children where there are and if there is something going on in the child's life interfering with their ability to learn, the teachers consider it their responsibility to get involved and help. In other words, the teachers do not see their responsibility as to present the materials and the tests and simply require the kids to keep up. Rather, their responsibility is to do what it takes to ensure the kids do keep up.

Furthermore, Finland is a small country with far, far greater social supports than we have here. If a child shows up for school hungry, without adequate health care, from a troubled home, that child cannot learn regardless of how high you set expectations. In Finland, the kids eat, have health care and have social supports.

So if you want to follow Finland's lead, support higher taxes for social programs and wrap around services in the schools.

Actually, their schools are much less racially diverse with less socio economic challenges. Don't compare Finland to the US. It's apples and oranges

[Anonymous]

The recent posts pertaining to Finland and the performance of Asian students is why we make so little progress when it comes to the quality of our schools.

Among the excuses offered include:

Finland is a smaller country and cannot be compared to the US, the homogenous characteristics of Finland, the holistic approach that Finland uses, Central America's proximity to the US and presumably illegal immigration from those countries, the need to fund education more than we do, the aid and involvement we have in other countries.

We have, of course, had extensive comments dismissing the superior academic performance of Asian students in the US as being the result of the disciplined and structured approach that non-Asian parents feel has a negative impact on children.

Of course there are other countries in Europe and elsewhere that are homogenous that don't do as well Finland. There are countries - other than the US - that are multi-cultural and again it is the Asian students who do best such as in the UK.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/feb/07/chinese-children-school-do-well

Funding is not the issue because, at least in the US, the funding of education per capita does not necessarily produce the best results.

There is somewhat of a consensus that the problem is the quality of teachers we have as evidenced by other threads. There is less of a consensus that the problem is with parents who are willing to accept mediocrity - as another PP said, a "C" is considered good enough. There is even less of a consensus that what is needed is for parents to be more involved and be the catalyst for raising their expectations for their children and to be more responsible for ensuring they do their part to make this happen.

Some of the attitudes we see are born of the belief that we do everything best and to the extent that another country does something well in the area of education, it is because their circumstances are not comparable.