Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

+1
and why should anyone wait to be punched before anyone takes action? Would you rather wait to be punched before someone helped you?

How do you know he was going to punch anyone? Oh right, you don't. You can't self defend against something that someone *might* do.

In your “progressive” haze, you’re being willfully ignorant. He was making threats and appeared unhinged. He in fact had a history of violence. It’s completely predictable that he was going to get attacked. The people to blame are the ones who left him on the streets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

+1
and why should anyone wait to be punched before anyone takes action? Would you rather wait to be punched before someone helped you?

How do you know he was going to punch anyone? Oh right, you don't. You can't self defend against something that someone *might* do.

You don't understand the law. The law permits you to take action to defend yourself if you reasonably believe the use of physical force is necessary to defend yourself or another individual from what you believe to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by another individual. You don't have to wait for someone to hit you first. However, the permissible use of deadly force is much limited, so it is questionable whether the circumstances justified the use of deadly force (assuming that the chokehold was deadly force).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would support the Marine in this case. There was no intent to kill but to subdue.

TBH, the Marine and the other passengers had a reasonable fear of serious bodily injury. A single punch in the face can be disfiguring or worse.

If we're going to discuss the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

+1
and why should anyone wait to be punched before anyone takes action? Would you rather wait to be punched before someone helped you?

How do you know he was going to punch anyone? Oh right, you don't. You can't self defend against something that someone *might* do.

In your “progressive” haze, you’re being willfully ignorant. He was making threats and appeared unhinged. He in fact had a history of violence. It’s completely predictable that he was going to get attacked. The people to blame are the ones who left him on the streets.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?

He didn’t do anything dangerous

How do you know? We’re you there?

There have been several statements collected by witnesses, if you have been keeping up. Yes, he was yelling and screaming.

This is not a crime. If it were, I’d be entitled to choke out your brats when they have a tantrum in public. I’m honestly shocked and sickened by the attitudes here. Do we live in Minority Report, where people can be killed for futurecrime?

Not at all surprised it was a Marine who killed him. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I have read a number of articles about this and watched an interview with the man who took the video. In his interview (in Spanish with a translator), he did note that the man had not assaulted anyone (although you could argue that throwing trash at people might be assault). The witness did, however, note that he was frightened by the man. He also said, in a comment that I found very telling, that if the police had come five minutes earlier, the marine would have been hailed as a hero. I think the fact that two other men were helping the marine subdue the man speaks to the fact that they genuinely viewed his behavior as a threat.

Of course whether they went too far is the question, and it sounds like the force used was excessive.

I ride the NY subway every day, and encounter loud, erratically behaving people regularly. If I deem one of them to be an actual potential threat (and the vast majority are not), I move further down the car, or switch cars. Removing oneself from the threat is the appropriate, and usual, tactic.

The fact that you normalize the necessity to get away from people who pose danger is very telling
It shouldn’t be like that in a civilized country

+1 truly

DP. I think you have it the other way around. In a civilized country, vigilante action is not permitted.

And if we had a civilized country without nut jobs running around the subways threatening and assaulting innocent people, if the government actually maintained law and order, we wouldn't need vigilantes. But until then...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Emergency button? Try that on a MARTA train in Atlanta. See how quickly help comes to your rescue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, Reagan, for nothing.

Trickle down economics doesn't work and neither did shutting down mental institutions.

This is what happens when idiot Americans vote for "actors."

Sickening.

Ronald Reagan last held office 34 years ago. If we need to bring back the days of involuntary commission to the state lunatic asylum -- and we do!! -- we've had plenty of time to do it since the Reagan Administration.

I am shocked, pleasantly so, at how many people on this thread are defending the Marine. Yes, he used too much force, in hindsight. Hindsight is 20-20. He's never been trained in law enforcement. He was simply protecting everyone else on that subway car from the lawlessness that is overtaking our communities.

It's absolutely tragic that Neely died for it rather than getting the meds and treatment and forced hospitalization that he needs. But it's not this one Marine who killed him -- it's our society who decided that he should be free to roam the subways and assault whomever he chooses.

+1 You have spoken the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

+1
and why should anyone wait to be punched before anyone takes action? Would you rather wait to be punched before someone helped you?

How do you know he was going to punch anyone? Oh right, you don't. You can't self defend against something that someone *might* do.

You don't understand the law. The law permits you to take action to defend yourself if you reasonably believe the use of physical force is necessary to defend yourself or another individual from what you believe to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by another individual. You don't have to wait for someone to hit you first. However, the permissible use of deadly force is much limited, so it is questionable whether the circumstances justified the use of deadly force (assuming that the chokehold was deadly force).

Actually New York has a duty to retreat, and you are only allowed to use deadly physical force when there are no other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The case is under investigation by the DA's office. The odds are high the case will be taken to a grand jury which will decide whether to indict the ex-marine. https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/new-york-subway-chokehold-death/index.html

The only reason there is a possible case is because a bystander took a video and gave it to the police.

I live in NYC. I ride the subway a couple of times a week. The homeless can be scary. You just don't know what they are going to do because so many of them are mentally ill. The PP who thinks you're safe if you just exit the car or move to the other side of the car is just plain wrong. Here's what happened to a woman who tried that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQuyDpirfgU Note this happened on the Upper East Side at 11 am Saturday morning.

In a recent case in my neighborhood, a homeless man focused his comments on a 4 year old child. He announced to the other riders that she was "Satan's spawn." He had been told it was his mission to free the world of "Satan's children." He followed the child and her mother off the train and outside. He came up to them while they were waiting at a bus stop, screaming in the 4 year old's face in a tirade of obscentities. No, he never actually touched the child, but she was certainly traumatized.

The subway is still pretty safe. These incidents are publicized because they are unusual.

It's very interesting how many of the comments to the youtube video of the attempted rape of the woman who left the subway car harshly just bystanders who didn't do anything to help this woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

+1
and why should anyone wait to be punched before anyone takes action? Would you rather wait to be punched before someone helped you?

How do you know he was going to punch anyone? Oh right, you don't. You can't self defend against something that someone *might* do.

You don't understand the law. The law permits you to take action to defend yourself if you reasonably believe the use of physical force is necessary to defend yourself or another individual from what you believe to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by another individual. You don't have to wait for someone to hit you first. However, the permissible use of deadly force is much limited, so it is questionable whether the circumstances justified the use of deadly force (assuming that the chokehold was deadly force).

Actually New York has a duty to retreat, and you are only allowed to use deadly physical force when there are no other options.

There's nowhere to retreat on a train...

[Anonymous]

I am a liberal and do NOT believe in stand your ground or vigilante justice, however, this case is a bit unclear for me. While i don't think this person should have been killed, did the Marine only try to subdue him?
how long was the hold?
If i was riding with kids, i 100% would be fearful of a ranting man waiving his arms about a closed subway car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of hot girls on social media are asking for the ex-marine’s contact info

I know it's irrelevant to the topic at hand, but I love this. This just proves that most women admire protective men like the Marine, and want to know that men will stand up for them and protect them.

[Anonymous]

WE need mandated mental health treatment full stop.
Instead of funding wars we need to fund mental health and medication.
I 100% believe people should be mandated treatment and medication or they lose their rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The case is under investigation by the DA's office. The odds are high the case will be taken to a grand jury which will decide whether to indict the ex-marine. https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/new-york-subway-chokehold-death/index.html

The only reason there is a possible case is because a bystander took a video and gave it to the police.

I live in NYC. I ride the subway a couple of times a week. The homeless can be scary. You just don't know what they are going to do because so many of them are mentally ill. The PP who thinks you're safe if you just exit the car or move to the other side of the car is just plain wrong. Here's what happened to a woman who tried that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQuyDpirfgU Note this happened on the Upper East Side at 11 am Saturday morning.

In a recent case in my neighborhood, a homeless man focused his comments on a 4 year old child. He announced to the other riders that she was "Satan's spawn." He had been told it was his mission to free the world of "Satan's children." He followed the child and her mother off the train and outside. He came up to them while they were waiting at a bus stop, screaming in the 4 year old's face in a tirade of obscentities. No, he never actually touched the child, but she was certainly traumatized.

The subway is still pretty safe. These incidents are publicized because they are unusual.

That's me you're referring to, and 99% of the time, moving away works just fine. As you say, these incidents are unusual. Most mentally ill people are not violent or dangerous.

99% of the time, subduing someone in a chokehold doesn't kill them. oh well.

[Anonymous]

If what he did was wrong, how should someone respond assuming the person is fighting/resisting and acting eratically?
I don't carry handcuffs, should we?