Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, Reagan, for nothing.

Trickle down economics doesn't work and neither did shutting down mental institutions.

This is what happens when idiot Americans vote for "actors."

Sickening.

Ronald Reagan last held office 34 years ago. If we need to bring back the days of involuntary commission to the state lunatic asylum -- and we do!! -- we've had plenty of time to do it since the Reagan Administration.

I am shocked, pleasantly so, at how many people on this thread are defending the Marine. Yes, he used too much force, in hindsight. Hindsight is 20-20. He's never been trained in law enforcement. He was simply protecting everyone else on that subway car from the lawlessness that is overtaking our communities.

It's absolutely tragic that Neely died for it rather than getting the meds and treatment and forced hospitalization that he needs. But it's not this one Marine who killed him -- it's our society who decided that he should be free to roam the subways and assault whomever he chooses.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?

He didn’t do anything dangerous

How do you know? We’re you there?

There have been several statements collected by witnesses, if you have been keeping up. Yes, he was yelling and screaming.

This is not a crime. If it were, I’d be entitled to choke out your brats when they have a tantrum in public. I’m honestly shocked and sickened by the attitudes here. Do we live in Minority Report, where people can be killed for futurecrime?

Not at all surprised it was a Marine who killed him. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I have read a number of articles about this and watched an interview with the man who took the video. In his interview (in Spanish with a translator), he did note that the man had not assaulted anyone (although you could argue that throwing trash at people might be assault). The witness did, however, note that he was frightened by the man. He also said, in a comment that I found very telling, that if the police had come five minutes earlier, the marine would have been hailed as a hero. I think the fact that two other men were helping the marine subdue the man speaks to the fact that they genuinely viewed his behavior as a threat.

Of course whether they went too far is the question, and it sounds like the force used was excessive.

I ride the NY subway every day, and encounter loud, erratically behaving people regularly. If I deem one of them to be an actual potential threat (and the vast majority are not), I move further down the car, or switch cars. Removing oneself from the threat is the appropriate, and usual, tactic.

The fact that you normalize the necessity to get away from people who pose danger is very telling
It shouldn’t be like that in a civilized country

+1 truly

DP. I think you have it the other way around. In a civilized country, vigilante action is not permitted.

This was not vigilante action, not even close. I'm sure the people on that train felt threatened and they took action, good for them. This sob hit a 67 year old woman in the face, punched her. What a sick individual, and no, he needed to be behind bars hitting himself in the face instead of terrorizing the community. But I'm going to take yours and many other comments, ie AOC, and in the future I will walk/run away and let deviants like this hurt whoever they want to hurt. Not going to be called a vigilante because I'm protecting my personal safety. F society, that's what you want right? Well, you got it.

This most certainly was vigilante action. You are conflating a prior incident with what happened this week. No one on that train knew that he had done this. And yes, please remove yourself from situations like this, I don't want you killing someone and claiming it was on society's collective behalf.

No, this was not vigilante action. This was someone who properly acted to defend himself and others. He did not intend to kill the homeless (there are other adjectives that could be used) person - he may have used too much force restraining him or the homeless person may have been unusually susceptible to injury. That doesn't mean he was less dangerous.

Only one person killed another person on that train, and it wasn't the one who was screaming and shouting.

Thank goodness for the Marine.

If I was on the train with a mentally ill person who was behaving erratically, I would appreciate someone stepping. It's unfortunate that he put him in a chokehold, and the man died.

One life gone, the other one's life may be permanently damaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

+1
and why should anyone wait to be punched before anyone takes action? Would you rather wait to be punched before someone helped you?

[Anonymous]

The case is under investigation by the DA's office. The odds are high the case will be taken to a grand jury which will decide whether to indict the ex-marine. https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/new-york-subway-chokehold-death/index.html

The only reason there is a possible case is because a bystander took a video and gave it to the police.

I live in NYC. I ride the subway a couple of times a week. The homeless can be scary. You just don't know what they are going to do because so many of them are mentally ill. The PP who thinks you're safe if you just exit the car or move to the other side of the car is just plain wrong. Here's what happened to a woman who tried that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQuyDpirfgU Note this happened on the Upper East Side at 11 am Saturday morning.

In a recent case in my neighborhood, a homeless man focused his comments on a 4 year old child. He announced to the other riders that she was "Satan's spawn." He had been told it was his mission to free the world of "Satan's children." He followed the child and her mother off the train and outside. He came up to them while they were waiting at a bus stop, screaming in the 4 year old's face in a tirade of obscentities. No, he never actually touched the child, but she was certainly traumatized.

The subway is still pretty safe. These incidents are publicized because they are unusual.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I live in NYC and take the F train most days. The myth or rumor that policing is down is just that. There are more cops in subway stations and patrolling subway cars than I’ve ever seen in my 20 years of living in New York. Obviously homelessness and mental health crisis are also up, and there are a lot of almost tragedies and true tragedies like this happening all the time.
I also believe a trained marine should know the difference between chokehold to subdue and chokehold to kill. Obviously, this guy had some sort of white savior act to “protect others bothered” going on. From
The eyewitnesses it doesn’t sound like the man murdered was doing anything dangerous.

I guess all the witnesses were wrong to be frightened and to feel threatened.

I wonder if he did anything dangerous before he hit the 67-year-old woman in the face?

No one on that train. Could have known about his priors, nor is it appropriate for a vigilante to kill a man for past crimes.

They wouldn't have know his priors, but his past record does suggest that his actions weren't benign and that many people felt rightfully threatened by him. Agree he still shouldn't have been killed, but restraining him doesn't seem unreasonable in that case.

This is why being a vigilante is illegal, no his priors do not matter. You can't assume somebody is dangerous based on priors, you can't kill somebody unless they are a threat to your life. That does not mean looking or sounding scary.

I think it makes sense to try to restrain a violent person before they attack other people.

I don’t think we’d be having this conversation if the person had simply restrained him.

Obviously he went too far in restraining him. I don't think he should have been killed and I think it's appropriate that he be tried for manslaughter. I just think it's ridiculous to act like the guy posed no threat to others.

Or that it's completely unreasonable (without actually having been there) that people might have been frightened by his behavior.

Being frightened does not raise to a level of needing to kill or even assault someone by restraint.

You can only defend yourself or other when assaulted or your life is in danger (like pointing a gun at you).

Says who? You? And verbal assaults count.

“Verbal assault”?

Have you never had a mentally ill person threaten to kill you? Happened to me quite recently in Georgetown. I was able to quickly move away. But if someone threatened me like that on the metro, I would be grateful if someone else was at least ready to restrain the person as I moved as far away as I could.

We don't know exactly what happened leading up to the physical confrontation other than witness accounts that the victim was behaving erratically, including shouting that he didn't care if he lived or went to jail. What is reasonable in terms of a threat from a mentally unstable person is difficult to determine. Sure, anyone who has lived in an urban environment frequently encounters mentally ill individuals and individuals who are addicted to drugs and are exhibiting unstable behaviors. Their mere existence is not a threat, but at some point, are people morally required to wait until they are attacked before they do something?

The mentally ill unhoused person in the video below was muttering about Satan before he brutally attacked a woman who was trying to walk away from him. As a warning, this video is horrible, but who is to say whether a person trying to move to another car might not have been attacked in the same way?

https://abc7ny.com/woman-beaten-in-subway-station-waheed-foster-assault-howard-beach/12268543/

Crazy. That guy should not have been allowed to be living in the community without forced medication.

This is why mental institutions need to be brought back. People like this man are incapable of living peacefully in the community - they are a danger to themselves and others. They need to be securely housed and provided with treatment for their mental illness/addiction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

+1
and why should anyone wait to be punched before anyone takes action? Would you rather wait to be punched before someone helped you?

How do you know he was going to punch anyone? Oh right, you don't. You can't self defend against something that someone *might* do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The man was mentally ill and had a long history of harassing subway riders and prior arrests. Our mental health system in this country sucks. He should have gotten help long before this ever happened.

The Marine wasn’t trying to kill him, he was trying to restrain him. But how stupid can you be to not realize that holding someone’s neck like that for so long can be fatal. The Marine was attempting to be a hero, and instead he is an idiot who killed someone.

Agree with all of this. I can't believe two other men, including a Black man, were assisting the Marine rather than telling him to stop.

WTF? Black people don't like dangerous psychopaths threatening innocent people any more than white people do. All three of those men are heroes.

[Anonymous]

I would support the Marine in this case. There was no intent to kill but to subdue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

+1
and why should anyone wait to be punched before anyone takes action? Would you rather wait to be punched before someone helped you?

How do you know he was going to punch anyone? Oh right, you don't. You can't self defend against something that someone *might* do.

No, I don't know what that person was going to do then. That person had punched people in the past, as have other unhoused people and other addicted people.

Self-defense does not require someone be injured first before defending themselves or other people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The case is under investigation by the DA's office. The odds are high the case will be taken to a grand jury which will decide whether to indict the ex-marine. https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/new-york-subway-chokehold-death/index.html

The only reason there is a possible case is because a bystander took a video and gave it to the police.

I live in NYC. I ride the subway a couple of times a week. The homeless can be scary. You just don't know what they are going to do because so many of them are mentally ill. The PP who thinks you're safe if you just exit the car or move to the other side of the car is just plain wrong. Here's what happened to a woman who tried that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQuyDpirfgU Note this happened on the Upper East Side at 11 am Saturday morning.

In a recent case in my neighborhood, a homeless man focused his comments on a 4 year old child. He announced to the other riders that she was "Satan's spawn." He had been told it was his mission to free the world of "Satan's children." He followed the child and her mother off the train and outside. He came up to them while they were waiting at a bus stop, screaming in the 4 year old's face in a tirade of obscentities. No, he never actually touched the child, but she was certainly traumatized.

The subway is still pretty safe. These incidents are publicized because they are unusual.

That's me you're referring to, and 99% of the time, moving away works just fine. As you say, these incidents are unusual. Most mentally ill people are not violent or dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind, please, that 9 people were murdered last year on the NY subway. Anyone with any sense would be 100% in their guard any time they ride it. It wouldn’t take much to perceive fear or feel like one is in danger of being physically assaulted

If someone was screaming like a maniac at me when I was riding a train- that would do it.

And another person was murdered this week. By the marine.

Oh, I guess I need to amend my first post, for the "compassionate" idiots who have no sense of reality:

Keep in mind, please, that 9 INNOCENT PEOPLE were murdered last year on the NY subway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in NYC and take the F train most days. The myth or rumor that policing is down is just that. There are more cops in subway stations and patrolling subway cars than I’ve ever seen in my 20 years of living in New York. Obviously homelessness and mental health crisis are also up, and there are a lot of almost tragedies and true tragedies like this happening all the time.
I also believe a trained marine should know the difference between chokehold to subdue and chokehold to kill. Obviously, this guy had some sort of white savior act to “protect others bothered” going on. From
The eyewitnesses it doesn’t sound like the man murdered was doing anything dangerous.

Oh really? Tell us what you know about the differences? Because that's not part of boot camp, I can promise you.

What about the black guy who helped? Did he also have a white savior complex "going on"?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I live in NYC and take the F train most days. The myth or rumor that policing is down is just that. There are more cops in subway stations and patrolling subway cars than I’ve ever seen in my 20 years of living in New York. Obviously homelessness and mental health crisis are also up, and there are a lot of almost tragedies and true tragedies like this happening all the time.
I also believe a trained marine should know the difference between chokehold to subdue and chokehold to kill. Obviously, this guy had some sort of white savior act to “protect others bothered” going on. From
The eyewitnesses it doesn’t sound like the man murdered was doing anything dangerous.

I guess all the witnesses were wrong to be frightened and to feel threatened.

I wonder if he did anything dangerous before he hit the 67-year-old woman in the face?

No one on that train. Could have known about his priors, nor is it appropriate for a vigilante to kill a man for past crimes.

They wouldn't have know his priors, but his past record does suggest that his actions weren't benign and that many people felt rightfully threatened by him. Agree he still shouldn't have been killed, but restraining him doesn't seem unreasonable in that case.

This is why being a vigilante is illegal, no his priors do not matter. You can't assume somebody is dangerous based on priors, you can't kill somebody unless they are a threat to your life. That does not mean looking or sounding scary.

I think it makes sense to try to restrain a violent person before they attack other people.

I don’t think we’d be having this conversation if the person had simply restrained him.

Obviously he went too far in restraining him. I don't think he should have been killed and I think it's appropriate that he be tried for manslaughter. I just think it's ridiculous to act like the guy posed no threat to others.

Manslaughter charges would be absurd.