If you are married to a big law partner, how involved are they in your family's home life?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DCUM always comes to the same conclusion - that partners in top law firms are always miserable - but it just isn't true.

There are definitely top firms where there are plenty of balanced (though certainly hard working) partners. They are exceptionally well paid because they are exceptional: often that means brilliant AS WELL AS socially competent (relationship building is a big part of the job). I think it would be extremely difficult to have that career and do 50% of the labor at home / with a family, but 30%? Sure. Spouse either SAH and takes on the remaining 70% or (more likely) has a low-key career that permits taking on more of the load.

Are you a Biglaw partner? How much of the load do you pull? Serious questions.

I’m the spouse. I’d say I do 70%. But my partner is with the family from 6-8 am and 6-8 pm weekdays, and all day on weekends, at a minimum, and during that time we are 50/50 with the kids. There are exceptions - travel once or twice a month for one night, or an evening call twice a month - but mostly that’s our situation.

I’m familiar with the absent and exhausted big law partner type, and it looks miserable. But I also know many partners at multiple firms, both men and women, who are absolutely present with their kids and happy and balanced.

Yea, I figured you weren’t a Biglaw partner yourself. But, hey, thanks for your input anyway.

You are free to believe what you want to believe, but I will repeat: not everyone in big law is miserable. Not my spouse, but also not several of my friends (who are themselves the equity partners).

So for me it's not about him being miserable. He's definitely not. He has a prestigious well-paying job at a respected firm with brilliant peers and nice clients, for the most part. As he puts it, if I'm going to have a job, this is the one I want! But as a spouse I see things a little differently. Even if his phone/computer is away, the looming work/deadlines are omnipresent. He doesn't sleep well due to the stress and often sacrifices his own health habits (exercise, friends, hobbies, sleep) to cram all the work he needs to get done into one day. This stress inevitably creeps into our family life. He's tired, distracted, and has no additional bandwidth for anything else so it's inevitable this would impact our family. Again, he's not miserable! He's a happy, grateful, respectful family man but I can see the wear and tear this life is having on his body. And the wear and tear it's doing to our family. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify this for anyone reading this thread. These men/women don't have to be outwardly miserable to be inwardly stressed to their max capacity.

I agree with this take. I think people say “well, he or she isn’t miserable so it’s fine!” But it’s not fine, not at all.

I mean, the deaths and alcoholism rampant in partners in their 50s and 60s should really tell people the truth. But spouses (except maybe PP above) often don’t want to see it, and the partners themselves often don’t want to see it.

I’ve received so many death notices from the families of Big Law partners. It’s just shockingly common that they die young. And the stories of alcohol are also hair-raising.

I don’t doubt you but I have been at 3 major biglaw firms and have never seen this. Not 1 partner in 59s or 60s died.

We know several. Including my husband's mentor. He just finished building his dream vacation home in his mid-fifties. Never stepped inside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM always comes to the same conclusion - that partners in top law firms are always miserable - but it just isn't true.

There are definitely top firms where there are plenty of balanced (though certainly hard working) partners. They are exceptionally well paid because they are exceptional: often that means brilliant AS WELL AS socially competent (relationship building is a big part of the job). I think it would be extremely difficult to have that career and do 50% of the labor at home / with a family, but 30%? Sure. Spouse either SAH and takes on the remaining 70% or (more likely) has a low-key career that permits taking on more of the load.

Are you a Biglaw partner? How much of the load do you pull? Serious questions.

I’m the spouse. I’d say I do 70%. But my partner is with the family from 6-8 am and 6-8 pm weekdays, and all day on weekends, at a minimum, and during that time we are 50/50 with the kids. There are exceptions - travel once or twice a month for one night, or an evening call twice a month - but mostly that’s our situation.

I’m familiar with the absent and exhausted big law partner type, and it looks miserable. But I also know many partners at multiple firms, both men and women, who are absolutely present with their kids and happy and balanced.

Yea, I figured you weren’t a Biglaw partner yourself. But, hey, thanks for your input anyway.

You are free to believe what you want to believe, but I will repeat: not everyone in big law is miserable. Not my spouse, but also not several of my friends (who are themselves the equity partners).

So for me it's not about him being miserable. He's definitely not. He has a prestigious well-paying job at a respected firm with brilliant peers and nice clients, for the most part. As he puts it, if I'm going to have a job, this is the one I want! But as a spouse I see things a little differently. Even if his phone/computer is away, the looming work/deadlines are omnipresent. He doesn't sleep well due to the stress and often sacrifices his own health habits (exercise, friends, hobbies, sleep) to cram all the work he needs to get done into one day. This stress inevitably creeps into our family life. He's tired, distracted, and has no additional bandwidth for anything else so it's inevitable this would impact our family. Again, he's not miserable! He's a happy, grateful, respectful family man but I can see the wear and tear this life is having on his body. And the wear and tear it's doing to our family. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify this for anyone reading this thread. These men/women don't have to be outwardly miserable to be inwardly stressed to their max capacity.

Yea, I’m the early retired Biglaw partner and I agree with this. I don’t blame the spouses who are coming on here to insist that it’s not the case with their spouses, though. Nobody wants to admit that a spouse from whom they are benefiting so much financially is paying such a huge price. They’re in denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM always comes to the same conclusion - that partners in top law firms are always miserable - but it just isn't true.

There are definitely top firms where there are plenty of balanced (though certainly hard working) partners. They are exceptionally well paid because they are exceptional: often that means brilliant AS WELL AS socially competent (relationship building is a big part of the job). I think it would be extremely difficult to have that career and do 50% of the labor at home / with a family, but 30%? Sure. Spouse either SAH and takes on the remaining 70% or (more likely) has a low-key career that permits taking on more of the load.

Are you a Biglaw partner? How much of the load do you pull? Serious questions.

I’m the spouse. I’d say I do 70%. But my partner is with the family from 6-8 am and 6-8 pm weekdays, and all day on weekends, at a minimum, and during that time we are 50/50 with the kids. There are exceptions - travel once or twice a month for one night, or an evening call twice a month - but mostly that’s our situation.

I’m familiar with the absent and exhausted big law partner type, and it looks miserable. But I also know many partners at multiple firms, both men and women, who are absolutely present with their kids and happy and balanced.

Yea, I figured you weren’t a Biglaw partner yourself. But, hey, thanks for your input anyway.

You are free to believe what you want to believe, but I will repeat: not everyone in big law is miserable. Not my spouse, but also not several of my friends (who are themselves the equity partners).

So for me it's not about him being miserable. He's definitely not. He has a prestigious well-paying job at a respected firm with brilliant peers and nice clients, for the most part. As he puts it, if I'm going to have a job, this is the one I want! But as a spouse I see things a little differently. Even if his phone/computer is away, the looming work/deadlines are omnipresent. He doesn't sleep well due to the stress and often sacrifices his own health habits (exercise, friends, hobbies, sleep) to cram all the work he needs to get done into one day. This stress inevitably creeps into our family life. He's tired, distracted, and has no additional bandwidth for anything else so it's inevitable this would impact our family. Again, he's not miserable! He's a happy, grateful, respectful family man but I can see the wear and tear this life is having on his body. And the wear and tear it's doing to our family. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify this for anyone reading this thread. These men/women don't have to be outwardly miserable to be inwardly stressed to their max capacity.

I agree with this take. I think people say “well, he or she isn’t miserable so it’s fine!” But it’s not fine, not at all.

I mean, the deaths and alcoholism rampant in partners in their 50s and 60s should really tell people the truth. But spouses (except maybe PP above) often don’t want to see it, and the partners themselves often don’t want to see it.

I’ve received so many death notices from the families of Big Law partners. It’s just shockingly common that they die young. And the stories of alcohol are also hair-raising.

I don’t doubt you but I have been at 3 major biglaw firms and have never seen this. Not 1 partner in 59s or 60s died.

I’m genuinely glad to hear that. It’s good it’s not so frequent that at least one person hasn’t had the same experience.

[Anonymous]

OMG OP and PP, I thought I was the only one whose big law partner DH does just trash and coffee. Who knew this was a thing? 😭

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM always comes to the same conclusion - that partners in top law firms are always miserable - but it just isn't true.

There are definitely top firms where there are plenty of balanced (though certainly hard working) partners. They are exceptionally well paid because they are exceptional: often that means brilliant AS WELL AS socially competent (relationship building is a big part of the job). I think it would be extremely difficult to have that career and do 50% of the labor at home / with a family, but 30%? Sure. Spouse either SAH and takes on the remaining 70% or (more likely) has a low-key career that permits taking on more of the load.

Are you a Biglaw partner? How much of the load do you pull? Serious questions.

I’m the spouse. I’d say I do 70%. But my partner is with the family from 6-8 am and 6-8 pm weekdays, and all day on weekends, at a minimum, and during that time we are 50/50 with the kids. There are exceptions - travel once or twice a month for one night, or an evening call twice a month - but mostly that’s our situation.

I’m familiar with the absent and exhausted big law partner type, and it looks miserable. But I also know many partners at multiple firms, both men and women, who are absolutely present with their kids and happy and balanced.

Yea, I figured you weren’t a Biglaw partner yourself. But, hey, thanks for your input anyway.

You are free to believe what you want to believe, but I will repeat: not everyone in big law is miserable. Not my spouse, but also not several of my friends (who are themselves the equity partners).

So for me it's not about him being miserable. He's definitely not. He has a prestigious well-paying job at a respected firm with brilliant peers and nice clients, for the most part. As he puts it, if I'm going to have a job, this is the one I want! But as a spouse I see things a little differently. Even if his phone/computer is away, the looming work/deadlines are omnipresent. He doesn't sleep well due to the stress and often sacrifices his own health habits (exercise, friends, hobbies, sleep) to cram all the work he needs to get done into one day. This stress inevitably creeps into our family life. He's tired, distracted, and has no additional bandwidth for anything else so it's inevitable this would impact our family. Again, he's not miserable! He's a happy, grateful, respectful family man but I can see the wear and tear this life is having on his body. And the wear and tear it's doing to our family. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify this for anyone reading this thread. These men/women don't have to be outwardly miserable to be inwardly stressed to their max capacity.

I agree with this take. I think people say “well, he or she isn’t miserable so it’s fine!” But it’s not fine, not at all.

I mean, the deaths and alcoholism rampant in partners in their 50s and 60s should really tell people the truth. But spouses (except maybe PP above) often don’t want to see it, and the partners themselves often don’t want to see it.

I’ve received so many death notices from the families of Big Law partners. It’s just shockingly common that they die young. And the stories of alcohol are also hair-raising.

I don’t doubt you but I have been at 3 major biglaw firms and have never seen this. Not 1 partner in 59s or 60s died.

I’m genuinely glad to hear that. It’s good it’s not so frequent that at least one person hasn’t had the same experience.

I’m a biglaw lawyer and in my twenty years of practice at two firms, only one partner died young - he was probably late 50s early 60s and he was a benefits lawyer. As 9-6 as you can possible do in biglaw and very involved with his family.

Studies show that lawyers have very high rates of alcohol and drug abuse, but I don’t think it’s any higher in big law than any other white collar higher responsibility professional jobs. I would bet a lot of those numbers are people in lower end law jobs, solo practice ambulance chasers in smaller markets. Big law is too demanding, and people need to have their lives tightly organized without room for error. I appreciate alcoholics can be functional, but I doubt it is rampant in our numbers. Most of my colleagues are just trying to get their shit done well and get home to hang with their kids.

[Anonymous]

There is so much confirmation bias in how people view whether or not “big law” is somehow toxic. In particular however people who believe partners are miserable somehow fail to recognize that many, many professions have similar issues. Medicine, academia, consulting, education…. All have their own urban legends about how toxic and damaging the career is to individuals. I think big law gets extra focus because people consistently make good money so it’s viewed as somehow trading happiness for a buck. But the reality is, many many people are unhappy workaholics no matter the profession. Also, many people BECOME workaholics to avoid other depressive parts of their lives. In academia suicide is exceedingly common, and there are coordinated efforts to improve the atmosphere for young scholars, but no one outside of academia cares, mostly because the academics who struggle with mental health aren’t making big bucks.

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

I hope those who are miserable get help, but that “help” often isn’t as simplistic as “leave big law” because there’s often something else that drove them to misery in the first place (is, pressure to succeed, blind desire for wealth, etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM always comes to the same conclusion - that partners in top law firms are always miserable - but it just isn't true.

There are definitely top firms where there are plenty of balanced (though certainly hard working) partners. They are exceptionally well paid because they are exceptional: often that means brilliant AS WELL AS socially competent (relationship building is a big part of the job). I think it would be extremely difficult to have that career and do 50% of the labor at home / with a family, but 30%? Sure. Spouse either SAH and takes on the remaining 70% or (more likely) has a low-key career that permits taking on more of the load.

Are you a Biglaw partner? How much of the load do you pull? Serious questions.

I’m the spouse. I’d say I do 70%. But my partner is with the family from 6-8 am and 6-8 pm weekdays, and all day on weekends, at a minimum, and during that time we are 50/50 with the kids. There are exceptions - travel once or twice a month for one night, or an evening call twice a month - but mostly that’s our situation.

I’m familiar with the absent and exhausted big law partner type, and it looks miserable. But I also know many partners at multiple firms, both men and women, who are absolutely present with their kids and happy and balanced.

Yea, I figured you weren’t a Biglaw partner yourself. But, hey, thanks for your input anyway.

You are free to believe what you want to believe, but I will repeat: not everyone in big law is miserable. Not my spouse, but also not several of my friends (who are themselves the equity partners).

So for me it's not about him being miserable. He's definitely not. He has a prestigious well-paying job at a respected firm with brilliant peers and nice clients, for the most part. As he puts it, if I'm going to have a job, this is the one I want! But as a spouse I see things a little differently. Even if his phone/computer is away, the looming work/deadlines are omnipresent. He doesn't sleep well due to the stress and often sacrifices his own health habits (exercise, friends, hobbies, sleep) to cram all the work he needs to get done into one day. This stress inevitably creeps into our family life. He's tired, distracted, and has no additional bandwidth for anything else so it's inevitable this would impact our family. Again, he's not miserable! He's a happy, grateful, respectful family man but I can see the wear and tear this life is having on his body. And the wear and tear it's doing to our family. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify this for anyone reading this thread. These men/women don't have to be outwardly miserable to be inwardly stressed to their max capacity.

I agree with this take. I think people say “well, he or she isn’t miserable so it’s fine!” But it’s not fine, not at all.

I mean, the deaths and alcoholism rampant in partners in their 50s and 60s should really tell people the truth. But spouses (except maybe PP above) often don’t want to see it, and the partners themselves often don’t want to see it.

I’ve received so many death notices from the families of Big Law partners. It’s just shockingly common that they die young. And the stories of alcohol are also hair-raising.

I don’t doubt you but I have been at 3 major biglaw firms and have never seen this. Not 1 partner in 59s or 60s died.

I’m genuinely glad to hear that. It’s good it’s not so frequent that at least one person hasn’t had the same experience.

I’m a biglaw lawyer and in my twenty years of practice at two firms, only one partner died young - he was probably late 50s early 60s and he was a benefits lawyer. As 9-6 as you can possible do in biglaw and very involved with his family.

Studies show that lawyers have very high rates of alcohol and drug abuse, but I don’t think it’s any higher in big law than any other white collar higher responsibility professional jobs. I would bet a lot of those numbers are people in lower end law jobs, solo practice ambulance chasers in smaller markets. Big law is too demanding, and people need to have their lives tightly organized without room for error. I appreciate alcoholics can be functional, but I doubt it is rampant in our numbers. Most of my colleagues are just trying to get their shit done well and get home to hang with their kids.

Big law partner wife here. I have heard that there is a lot of drug and alcohol addiction among big law attorneys, but I can only think of one partner who I know drinks a lot, and it's like two to three glasses of wine at night. Seems like a ton to me but I don't think that's terribly uncommon among all drinkers. of course they could all have a flask in their desk that I don't know about! But a lot of the partners at my husband's firm are really, really into fitness. They're all doing big fitness events and competitions in addition to spending quality time with their families.

I still suspect they're all pretty miserable though, deep down inside. Being on call for any job is distressing and with big law attorneys they have that plus the high stakes nature of it all. DH needs to find a new job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is so much confirmation bias in how people view whether or not “big law” is somehow toxic. In particular however people who believe partners are miserable somehow fail to recognize that many, many professions have similar issues. Medicine, academia, consulting, education…. All have their own urban legends about how toxic and damaging the career is to individuals. I think big law gets extra focus because people consistently make good money so it’s viewed as somehow trading happiness for a buck. But the reality is, many many people are unhappy workaholics no matter the profession. Also, many people BECOME workaholics to avoid other depressive parts of their lives. In academia suicide is exceedingly common, and there are coordinated efforts to improve the atmosphere for young scholars, but no one outside of academia cares, mostly because the academics who struggle with mental health aren’t making big bucks.

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

I hope those who are miserable get help, but that “help” often isn’t as simplistic as “leave big law” because there’s often something else that drove them to misery in the first place (is, pressure to succeed, blind desire for wealth, etc).

I’m one of the pp biglaw partners, and absolutely this about other jobs also being demanding. My husband and I both went to good grad schools - me law, and him something else. Other than the folks with family money who chose super flexible jobs that don’t pay the bills, all of our friends pursued career paths with demanding jobs, long hours, and some level of stress. Most of us also mostly like what we do, and find our jobs mostly fulfilling. I’m on calls with clients all the time - folks with legal and financial backgrounds - and they’re often working as hard or longer hours than I am. And I often think how great it is I’m probably making twice as much as them, and still enjoying my work. I’d say their one difference is they can take true vacations multiple times a year, vs lawyers it’s harder to make that happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is enlightening and devastating in equal measure. Thank you for all these honests posts. I feel like I'm truly reading a chapter in my future life in a "choose your own adventure" kind of way.

My DH is a new-ish Big Law partner in a field he finds rewarding and at a firm he feels is a good fit though he has sacrificed compensation by choosing to be there. There are weeks that are just insane where I swear he's working 20 out of 24 hours. Or months where it's all travel all the time. Honestly, the former is actually harder since as other PPs mentioned, he tends to parachute in to family affairs and gives his unwanted two cents. When he's away, things run like clockwork.

But at least 75 percent of the year is what I call a super schedule. He wakes up an hour early to squeeze in emails, helps a little with morning kid stuff then it's incommunicado for the next 11 hours until we see him home around 8pm. Then quick dinner while I do bedtime routine and then he reads stories, plays a quick game, etc. Then more work until 11pm or so. Some weeks he can actually chill. Weekends are at minimum 2 hours of emails and vacations always include a little work.

That said, he does find time to throw in the odd load of laundry, clean dishes/sweep a couple times a week, take out trash, and yes, makes the coffee regularly. Everything else, and I mean everything, falls on me. Social schedules, cooking, shopping, school stuff, travel, medical, financial, house, yard, clothing, even his, is on my plate. Not to mention all the other things women typically take on to raise good kids in a warm environment.

I'm at WAHM but work in a creative space so it's easy to just push my projects to the side. I'm getting better about being ok with a little more mess and chaos in order to carve out more work time. But I don't love outsourcing things so just have my house cleaned once a month.

I will add that my husband and I have been together for decades so we have a rock solid relationship. If we didn't, I'm not sure we could have weathered some of the storms that him being physically and emotionally unavailable has brought on. I'll also add that lawyers, especially litigators, are trained to duel intellectually and thrive on it which means they don't often turn it off at home. I keep reminding him that it's better to be married then to be right all the time.

Anyway, so many nuggets of wisdom on this thread.i do consider myself extremely privileged to live the Lifestyle his career affords (private schools, expensive vacations, buying what we want when we want it) but like any high-powered job, it has a dark side. I will also add that as we get older, I truly do see the toll this job is taking on his health. So much so, I'm considering putting other career ambitions aside and starting a business to help get him into an early retirement track.

I’m the early retired Biglaw poster. Thanks for sharing this. It’s honest and enlightening and in many ways I can relate.

The one thing that we did when I was working was avoid lifestyle creep at all costs. Part of this was strategic, but mostly it was organic. My wife was (is) Midwest raised with parents who had lots of money but didn’t spend it or show it off. My wife is the same way. No private schools for our kids; no expensive colleges when UVA will do; no keeping up with the Joneses in terms of cars and houses etc. We only splurged on vacations. That’s it.

Because of that, and because we married and had kids early, we were well positioned to walk away from work very early with a nice nest egg and without worrying that our lifestyle would suffer without all of that money - we never lived a moneyed lifestyle in the first place, so there was no adjustments required.

Previous posters who (or whose spouses) have remained in Biglaw, especially the one who accused me of mansplaining, have rightfully noted that I “hated” my job. In fact, I did. I never adjusted to the arrogance, the elitism, the way lawyers looked down on staff - or anybody without their education or income stream, honestly - the uptightedness, the boring social events, the private schooling for the kids, the often tedious work, clients who you’d have nothing to do with were it high school but who you have to suck up to, etc etc etc. The whole thing was just so awful and contrived and sterile and fake.

It’s funny. We no longer have to worry about making more and more money to do and buy more and more things to feel good about ourselves and feel like we’re better parents. Instead, to reach a goal (say, another trip abroad) we just cut back on eating out for a little while. It’s so liberating being out of the Biglaw rat race. I really don’t think that most of the folks who are still caught up in it realize just how terrible it is.

PP, based on your experience, what do you think motivates the Biglaw partners to live this life?

I mean...it can't just be the money, right? Because you'd have to be crazy to think that the paltry sum of 1 mil a year is enough to make up for having zero life.

I’m the PP.

First, it’s not $1 million for many Biglaw partners - it’s way more than that. When I walked away nearly a decade ago I was making just shy of $1 million myself, and I was one of the lower paid partners. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the partners I used to work with are now pulling in up to $3 million or more. Of course, I don’t know that for sure because I have nothing to do with any of them.

That amount of money is not easy for anyone to walk away from. It defines a person. Makes them feel special. Important. Better than other people. Whatever you want to call it. I know it did for me at least, for a long while.

They’d also vehemently disagree (as you’ve seen some of them and their spouses here) that they have “zero” life. They will talk up their houses, their vacations, their private schools, their social lives with their clients and colleagues etc, and insist that it’s all pretty damned good and that they really can put work completely aside sometimes and really enjoy themselves. But I rarely saw that happen for real in my firm, and I’m pretty confident that we are not unique. You don’t make partner at Biglaw without being driven and focused AF, and you can’t keep at it without continuing to be that way. You can pretend around others (including your spouse) that you’re turning it off, of course. But I know better. It’s always on the back of your mind.

One anecdote. Several months ago one of my former partners (with one of the most “laid back” reputations in my old firm) reached out to me out of the blue and asked to meet over a drink to talk about the financial adjustments involved in retiring early. We met. They had their spouse with them. They asked how high end we had been traveling (pre-Covid) since retiring. When I responded that we haven’t been traveling particularly high end but it was fine because high end was never our style even when I was working, the response I got was, and this is a quote: “Ugh. That would be tough for us. We love our Four Seasons.”

That partner ain’t leaving anytime soon.

Being defined by money is a pretty sad statement, to me (someone who was raised with good values).

[Anonymous]

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is so much confirmation bias in how people view whether or not “big law” is somehow toxic. In particular however people who believe partners are miserable somehow fail to recognize that many, many professions have similar issues. Medicine, academia, consulting, education…. All have their own urban legends about how toxic and damaging the career is to individuals. I think big law gets extra focus because people consistently make good money so it’s viewed as somehow trading happiness for a buck. But the reality is, many many people are unhappy workaholics no matter the profession. Also, many people BECOME workaholics to avoid other depressive parts of their lives. In academia suicide is exceedingly common, and there are coordinated efforts to improve the atmosphere for young scholars, but no one outside of academia cares, mostly because the academics who struggle with mental health aren’t making big bucks.

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

I hope those who are miserable get help, but that “help” often isn’t as simplistic as “leave big law” because there’s often something else that drove them to misery in the first place (is, pressure to succeed, blind desire for wealth, etc).

Another spouse who is in denial and on the defensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is so much confirmation bias in how people view whether or not “big law” is somehow toxic. In particular however people who believe partners are miserable somehow fail to recognize that many, many professions have similar issues. Medicine, academia, consulting, education…. All have their own urban legends about how toxic and damaging the career is to individuals. I think big law gets extra focus because people consistently make good money so it’s viewed as somehow trading happiness for a buck. But the reality is, many many people are unhappy workaholics no matter the profession. Also, many people BECOME workaholics to avoid other depressive parts of their lives. In academia suicide is exceedingly common, and there are coordinated efforts to improve the atmosphere for young scholars, but no one outside of academia cares, mostly because the academics who struggle with mental health aren’t making big bucks.

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

I hope those who are miserable get help, but that “help” often isn’t as simplistic as “leave big law” because there’s often something else that drove them to misery in the first place (is, pressure to succeed, blind desire for wealth, etc).

I’m one of the pp biglaw partners, and absolutely this about other jobs also being demanding. My husband and I both went to good grad schools - me law, and him something else. Other than the folks with family money who chose super flexible jobs that don’t pay the bills, all of our friends pursued career paths with demanding jobs, long hours, and some level of stress. Most of us also mostly like what we do, and find our jobs mostly fulfilling. I’m on calls with clients all the time - folks with legal and financial backgrounds - and they’re often working as hard or longer hours than I am. And I often think how great it is I’m probably making twice as much as them, and still enjoying my work. I’d say their one difference is they can take true vacations multiple times a year, vs lawyers it’s harder to make that happen.

You throw out that last sentence as an aside, when actually it’s a proxy for having a real life. If that’s the “one” difference, it’s a huge one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

[Anonymous]

Any spouses of consulting/accounting partners, banking/asset management MDs, or c-suite? Do you think it is a similar experience to what people are saying re big law?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is so much confirmation bias in how people view whether or not “big law” is somehow toxic. In particular however people who believe partners are miserable somehow fail to recognize that many, many professions have similar issues. Medicine, academia, consulting, education…. All have their own urban legends about how toxic and damaging the career is to individuals. I think big law gets extra focus because people consistently make good money so it’s viewed as somehow trading happiness for a buck. But the reality is, many many people are unhappy workaholics no matter the profession. Also, many people BECOME workaholics to avoid other depressive parts of their lives. In academia suicide is exceedingly common, and there are coordinated efforts to improve the atmosphere for young scholars, but no one outside of academia cares, mostly because the academics who struggle with mental health aren’t making big bucks.

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

I hope those who are miserable get help, but that “help” often isn’t as simplistic as “leave big law” because there’s often something else that drove them to misery in the first place (is, pressure to succeed, blind desire for wealth, etc).

I’m one of the pp biglaw partners, and absolutely this about other jobs also being demanding. My husband and I both went to good grad schools - me law, and him something else. Other than the folks with family money who chose super flexible jobs that don’t pay the bills, all of our friends pursued career paths with demanding jobs, long hours, and some level of stress. Most of us also mostly like what we do, and find our jobs mostly fulfilling. I’m on calls with clients all the time - folks with legal and financial backgrounds - and they’re often working as hard or longer hours than I am. And I often think how great it is I’m probably making twice as much as them, and still enjoying my work. I’d say their one difference is they can take true vacations multiple times a year, vs lawyers it’s harder to make that happen.

You throw out that last sentence as an aside, when actually it’s a proxy for having a real life. If that’s the “one” difference, it’s a huge one.

+1

As someone who left Big Law and went in-house (less money, but orders of magnitude better life), I am so used to hearing Big Law partners tell me in so many words that my life isn’t different than theirs, they just make more money. It is outright delusional. But the truth leaks out in statements like the PPs. I never engage on the topic, just smile and nod. You can’t shake people from things they need to believe to get through their days.