If you are married to a big law partner, how involved are they in your family's home life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH is a big law partner. Three kids under four. He's with us 6:30-7:30 am (gets the kids up and helps with breakfast). Then 5:45-7:15. Eats diner with us every night and does bath for the older kids. Spends most of the weekend hands on unless he has a call.

He makes this work by doing a ton at night after bedtime and working o during nap time on the weekend. He also will routinely handle doctors appointments, is always there for the first day of school etc.

Partnership offers much more flexibility. We will never take a vacation where he doesn't need to work, but he is able to have a lot of say over his schedule, much more so than when he was an associate.
In terms of mental load, I'd say it's 70% me, maybe less though. This is because I have high expectations of him as a father and spouse and don't put up with a lot of bs excuses. He needs to be present mentally and emotionally for our kids, that's not negotiable. I wouldn't have married and had three kids with someone who didn't prioritize that though.

That’s amazing! I’m so jealous. My DH is a big law partner and we do the mornings together (7-8am) with the kids some (but not all) days and then he pops in for bedtime about 10-20 minutes and that’s it. We never eat dinner together and he works after the kids go to bed too. Every night I am on my own and go to bed alone. He is around some on weekends. I work full time at a demanding job and can’t quit right now for various reasons so I am at my wits end. I feel so alone and he’s about to leave for a month to be overseas for a case. I’m just not sure how much longer I can handle this. I’ve complained several times and he says he will change but nothing ever does. How do people live like this? Is this normal?

From reading this thread I understand more fully now that yes, this is within the bounds of normal. But it does sound like some partners sidestep this kind of schedule. From what I gleaned it's most likely due to their particular niche they chose or a deliberate downgrade in expectations/performance to prioritize family. With the latter, it sounds like this could put you on a track that may lead you out of the firm early altogether which is probably not a bad thing for them. A few partners even plan for this and have an early exit strategy by maintaining a relatively low-key lifestyle when it comes to expenses.

I'm also starting to understand that people just really handle stress differently. Maybe it's in their DNA. Maybe it's been modeled to them as they were growing up. Maybe they actually thrive off it. Or maybe they just hide it really well. But if you have a spouse who is sensitive to stress, life quickly becomes what you just described because work always take precedence so that the stress level maintains at survivable.

Anyway, all this to say that I feel you PP. And while I'd love to say it will get better, it won't. Until you have a very real discussion with your spouse about setting work boundaries and agree that you're both willing to accept the consequences of him adhering to them. Ie: Less pay, less prestige, less opportunity, kicked out of partnership, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

I believe him a lot more than I believe the self-interested spouse PP.

I am him, and thank you. It’s interesting; my wife had no problem whatsoever with my walking away and giving up all of that money because she, too, knew it was an unnecessarily grueling and unhealthy existence in so many ways for both of us. But, again, like me she managed not to get too caught up in the financial trappings either. I don’t think the majority of Biglaw partners wives are like her in that way. This seems to be being confirmed in this thread.

Since walk away from working life almost a decade ago, we have been living extremely comfortably on around $225k a year, all generated from retirement accounts and other investments that I made when working (spouse was a SAHM mom). Having just passed 60, we are still years away from collecting social security., but when that happens we will get a boost of about another $55k. That will be nice, sure, but not necessary: We haven’t had to make any lifestyle changes since retiring, because we never lived that large before. You just don’t need any more money than that, especially once the kids are grown, and it can really ruin to make so much money and then decide that you can’t live well without it.



We leave next week for a two-week trip abroad.

.

I tend to believe you in your experience at big law but I find it disingenuous that you think it’s the wives who want the big law partners to keep working. I think it’s likely most of them want to support the husband’s ambitions, and so the choice for them is to either divorce or accept. I don’t know if you mean it or not but you sound like you’re blaming wives for husbands wanting to be in this kind of work scenario.

I think it can be both, some spouses maybe more one than the other. I can’t believe how much money my DH earns, it’s crazy to me and he’s not even a rainmaker or anything like that. I never cared about salary; I am a fed and think a double fed life style is great! But we have to actively work to keep ourselves from getting locked into a lifestyle that requires a partner salary. I am constantly shocked by the families with multi million dollar mortgages as bad 3 kids in private school with a SAHM. If walking away means moving or pulling your kids out school, yeah that’s harder! We live in a very normal neighborhood and our kids go to public school. The biggest thing that we spend on is the best private out of pocket therapies for our SN kid, and even that if my DH wanted to like quit or even go to government we would have to be really careful to afford. We save a lot to keep ourselves from feeling trapped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

I believe him a lot more than I believe the self-interested spouse PP.

I am him, and thank you. It’s interesting; my wife had no problem whatsoever with my walking away and giving up all of that money because she, too, knew it was an unnecessarily grueling and unhealthy existence in so many ways for both of us. But, again, like me she managed not to get too caught up in the financial trappings either. I don’t think the majority of Biglaw partners wives are like her in that way. This seems to be being confirmed in this thread.

Since walk away from working life almost a decade ago, we have been living extremely comfortably on around $225k a year, all generated from retirement accounts and other investments that I made when working (spouse was a SAHM mom). Having just passed 60, we are still years away from collecting social security., but when that happens we will get a boost of about another $55k. That will be nice, sure, but not necessary: We haven’t had to make any lifestyle changes since retiring, because we never lived that large before. You just don’t need any more money than that, especially once the kids are grown, and it can really ruin to make so much money and then decide that you can’t live well without it.



We leave next week for a two-week trip abroad.

How did you feel about your wife not needing the money when you were working? I think this describes us fairly well, but DH has told me before that he’s frustrated that I don’t seem to appreciate the biggest thing that he brings to the table, and he sometimes wishes he married someone who wanted this money, knew what to do with it, and needed/appreciated him more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH is a big law partner. Three kids under four. He's with us 6:30-7:30 am (gets the kids up and helps with breakfast). Then 5:45-7:15. Eats diner with us every night and does bath for the older kids. Spends most of the weekend hands on unless he has a call.

He makes this work by doing a ton at night after bedtime and working o during nap time on the weekend. He also will routinely handle doctors appointments, is always there for the first day of school etc.

Partnership offers much more flexibility. We will never take a vacation where he doesn't need to work, but he is able to have a lot of say over his schedule, much more so than when he was an associate.
In terms of mental load, I'd say it's 70% me, maybe less though. This is because I have high expectations of him as a father and spouse and don't put up with a lot of bs excuses. He needs to be present mentally and emotionally for our kids, that's not negotiable. I wouldn't have married and had three kids with someone who didn't prioritize that though.

That’s amazing! I’m so jealous. My DH is a big law partner and we do the mornings together (7-8am) with the kids some (but not all) days and then he pops in for bedtime about 10-20 minutes and that’s it. We never eat dinner together and he works after the kids go to bed too. Every night I am on my own and go to bed alone. He is around some on weekends. I work full time at a demanding job and can’t quit right now for various reasons so I am at my wits end. I feel so alone and he’s about to leave for a month to be overseas for a case. I’m just not sure how much longer I can handle this. I’ve complained several times and he says he will change but nothing ever does. How do people live like this? Is this normal?

Did you know what you were getting into at all?

No not really. He worked at DOJ when we got married and about 2 years later lateraled to an equity partner position at a big law firm. He worked a lot at DOJ and said it would be the same just more money at the firm(!). He does make a lot more but generally it’s just not worth it as most of the time I don’t feel like I have a husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is enlightening and devastating in equal measure. Thank you for all these honests posts. I feel like I'm truly reading a chapter in my future life in a "choose your own adventure" kind of way.

My DH is a new-ish Big Law partner in a field he finds rewarding and at a firm he feels is a good fit though he has sacrificed compensation by choosing to be there. There are weeks that are just insane where I swear he's working 20 out of 24 hours. Or months where it's all travel all the time. Honestly, the former is actually harder since as other PPs mentioned, he tends to parachute in to family affairs and gives his unwanted two cents. When he's away, things run like clockwork.

But at least 75 percent of the year is what I call a super schedule. He wakes up an hour early to squeeze in emails, helps a little with morning kid stuff then it's incommunicado for the next 11 hours until we see him home around 8pm. Then quick dinner while I do bedtime routine and then he reads stories, plays a quick game, etc. Then more work until 11pm or so. Some weeks he can actually chill. Weekends are at minimum 2 hours of emails and vacations always include a little work.

That said, he does find time to throw in the odd load of laundry, clean dishes/sweep a couple times a week, take out trash, and yes, makes the coffee regularly. Everything else, and I mean everything, falls on me. Social schedules, cooking, shopping, school stuff, travel, medical, financial, house, yard, clothing, even his, is on my plate. Not to mention all the other things women typically take on to raise good kids in a warm environment.

I'm at WAHM but work in a creative space so it's easy to just push my projects to the side. I'm getting better about being ok with a little more mess and chaos in order to carve out more work time. But I don't love outsourcing things so just have my house cleaned once a month.

I will add that my husband and I have been together for decades so we have a rock solid relationship. If we didn't, I'm not sure we could have weathered some of the storms that him being physically and emotionally unavailable has brought on. I'll also add that lawyers, especially litigators, are trained to duel intellectually and thrive on it which means they don't often turn it off at home. I keep reminding him that it's better to be married then to be right all the time.

Anyway, so many nuggets of wisdom on this thread.i do consider myself extremely privileged to live the Lifestyle his career affords (private schools, expensive vacations, buying what we want when we want it) but like any high-powered job, it has a dark side. I will also add that as we get older, I truly do see the toll this job is taking on his health. So much so, I'm considering putting other career ambitions aside and starting a business to help get him into an early retirement track.

I’m the early retired Biglaw poster. Thanks for sharing this. It’s honest and enlightening and in many ways I can relate.

The one thing that we did when I was working was avoid lifestyle creep at all costs. Part of this was strategic, but mostly it was organic. My wife was (is) Midwest raised with parents who had lots of money but didn’t spend it or show it off. My wife is the same way. No private schools for our kids; no expensive colleges when UVA will do; no keeping up with the Joneses in terms of cars and houses etc. We only splurged on vacations. That’s it.

Because of that, and because we married and had kids early, we were well positioned to walk away from work very early with a nice nest egg and without worrying that our lifestyle would suffer without all of that money - we never lived a moneyed lifestyle in the first place, so there was no adjustments required.

Previous posters who (or whose spouses) have remained in Biglaw, especially the one who accused me of mansplaining, have rightfully noted that I “hated” my job. In fact, I did. I never adjusted to the arrogance, the elitism, the way lawyers looked down on staff - or anybody without their education or income stream, honestly - the uptightedness, the boring social events, the private schooling for the kids, the often tedious work, clients who you’d have nothing to do with were it high school but who you have to suck up to, etc etc etc. The whole thing was just so awful and contrived and sterile and fake.

It’s funny. We no longer have to worry about making more and more money to do and buy more and more things to feel good about ourselves and feel like we’re better parents. Instead, to reach a goal (say, another trip abroad) we just cut back on eating out for a little while. It’s so liberating being out of the Biglaw rat race. I really don’t think that most of the folks who are still caught up in it realize just how terrible it is.

PP, based on your experience, what do you think motivates the Biglaw partners to live this life?

I mean...it can't just be the money, right? Because you'd have to be crazy to think that the paltry sum of 1 mil a year is enough to make up for having zero life.

I am a PP above. I don't have zero life. I do lots. I never did the super schedule described above even as a junior lawyer and I have always been at the upper end of big law. Are there times I can't be there -- yes but is that every day or week or even month that happens ---- no. I have been at biglaw for more than 25 years. I know people like PP. I have never understood why they do it and why they set up their schedule like that.

It's the deadlines, the client demand, the ethical obligations and related stress, the high stakes nature of a lot of the work. What were your billable requirements or did you lie about your billable hours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH is a big law partner. Three kids under four. He's with us 6:30-7:30 am (gets the kids up and helps with breakfast). Then 5:45-7:15. Eats diner with us every night and does bath for the older kids. Spends most of the weekend hands on unless he has a call.

He makes this work by doing a ton at night after bedtime and working o during nap time on the weekend. He also will routinely handle doctors appointments, is always there for the first day of school etc.

Partnership offers much more flexibility. We will never take a vacation where he doesn't need to work, but he is able to have a lot of say over his schedule, much more so than when he was an associate.
In terms of mental load, I'd say it's 70% me, maybe less though. This is because I have high expectations of him as a father and spouse and don't put up with a lot of bs excuses. He needs to be present mentally and emotionally for our kids, that's not negotiable. I wouldn't have married and had three kids with someone who didn't prioritize that though.

That’s amazing! I’m so jealous. My DH is a big law partner and we do the mornings together (7-8am) with the kids some (but not all) days and then he pops in for bedtime about 10-20 minutes and that’s it. We never eat dinner together and he works after the kids go to bed too. Every night I am on my own and go to bed alone. He is around some on weekends. I work full time at a demanding job and can’t quit right now for various reasons so I am at my wits end. I feel so alone and he’s about to leave for a month to be overseas for a case. I’m just not sure how much longer I can handle this. I’ve complained several times and he says he will change but nothing ever does. How do people live like this? Is this normal?

From reading this thread I understand more fully now that yes, this is within the bounds of normal. But it does sound like some partners sidestep this kind of schedule. From what I gleaned it's most likely due to their particular niche they chose or a deliberate downgrade in expectations/performance to prioritize family. With the latter, it sounds like this could put you on a track that may lead you out of the firm early altogether which is probably not a bad thing for them. A few partners even plan for this and have an early exit strategy by maintaining a relatively low-key lifestyle when it comes to expenses.

I'm also starting to understand that people just really handle stress differently. Maybe it's in their DNA. Maybe it's been modeled to them as they were growing up. Maybe they actually thrive off it. Or maybe they just hide it really well. But if you have a spouse who is sensitive to stress, life quickly becomes what you just described because work always take precedence so that the stress level maintains at survivable.

Anyway, all this to say that I feel you PP. And while I'd love to say it will get better, it won't. Until you have a very real discussion with your spouse about setting work boundaries and agree that you're both willing to accept the consequences of him adhering to them. Ie: Less pay, less prestige, less opportunity, kicked out of partnership, etc.

Thanks for the perspective! It helps to hear from other big law spouses because this world is so foreign to me and I feel so alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

I believe him a lot more than I believe the self-interested spouse PP.

I am him, and thank you. It’s interesting; my wife had no problem whatsoever with my walking away and giving up all of that money because she, too, knew it was an unnecessarily grueling and unhealthy existence in so many ways for both of us. But, again, like me she managed not to get too caught up in the financial trappings either. I don’t think the majority of Biglaw partners wives are like her in that way. This seems to be being confirmed in this thread.

Since walk away from working life almost a decade ago, we have been living extremely comfortably on around $225k a year, all generated from retirement accounts and other investments that I made when working (spouse was a SAHM mom). Having just passed 60, we are still years away from collecting social security., but when that happens we will get a boost of about another $55k. That will be nice, sure, but not necessary: We haven’t had to make any lifestyle changes since retiring, because we never lived that large before. You just don’t need any more money than that, especially once the kids are grown, and it can really ruin to make so much money and then decide that you can’t live well without it.



We leave next week for a two-week trip abroad.

How did you feel about your wife not needing the money when you were working? I think this describes us fairly well, but DH has told me before that he’s frustrated that I don’t seem to appreciate the biggest thing that he brings to the table, and he sometimes wishes he married someone who wanted this money, knew what to do with it, and needed/appreciated him more.

Wow that is really sad and sounds unhealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

I believe him a lot more than I believe the self-interested spouse PP.

I am him, and thank you. It’s interesting; my wife had no problem whatsoever with my walking away and giving up all of that money because she, too, knew it was an unnecessarily grueling and unhealthy existence in so many ways for both of us. But, again, like me she managed not to get too caught up in the financial trappings either. I don’t think the majority of Biglaw partners wives are like her in that way. This seems to be being confirmed in this thread.

Since walk away from working life almost a decade ago, we have been living extremely comfortably on around $225k a year, all generated from retirement accounts and other investments that I made when working (spouse was a SAHM mom). Having just passed 60, we are still years away from collecting social security., but when that happens we will get a boost of about another $55k. That will be nice, sure, but not necessary: We haven’t had to make any lifestyle changes since retiring, because we never lived that large before. You just don’t need any more money than that, especially once the kids are grown, and it can really ruin to make so much money and then decide that you can’t live well without it.



We leave next week for a two-week trip abroad.

follow-up question: aren't most partners from wealthy/connected backgrounds? Like plenty of associates from middle class backgrounds even if they went to a T10 school, but the people who actually make partner, they come from the moneyed classes, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

I believe him a lot more than I believe the self-interested spouse PP.

I am him, and thank you. It’s interesting; my wife had no problem whatsoever with my walking away and giving up all of that money because she, too, knew it was an unnecessarily grueling and unhealthy existence in so many ways for both of us. But, again, like me she managed not to get too caught up in the financial trappings either. I don’t think the majority of Biglaw partners wives are like her in that way. This seems to be being confirmed in this thread.

Since walk away from working life almost a decade ago, we have been living extremely comfortably on around $225k a year, all generated from retirement accounts and other investments that I made when working (spouse was a SAHM mom). Having just passed 60, we are still years away from collecting social security., but when that happens we will get a boost of about another $55k. That will be nice, sure, but not necessary: We haven’t had to make any lifestyle changes since retiring, because we never lived that large before. You just don’t need any more money than that, especially once the kids are grown, and it can really ruin to make so much money and then decide that you can’t live well without it.



We leave next week for a two-week trip abroad.

How did you feel about your wife not needing the money when you were working? I think this describes us fairly well, but DH has told me before that he’s frustrated that I don’t seem to appreciate the biggest thing that he brings to the table, and he sometimes wishes he married someone who wanted this money, knew what to do with it, and needed/appreciated him more.

Wow that is really sad and sounds unhealthy.

His reaction is actually triggered by shame. Men who climb the ranks to become partner are not used to their contributions being undervalued. They thrive off the praise and prestige. You've pushed a button knowingly or unknowingly and he's lashing out the way he knows best...with well-articulated insults that cut to the bone. Any lawyer worth his/her salt can do this well.

So my best advice is to have a conversation with him where you do tell him all the real ways you appreciate him beyond his paycheck. (Makes me wonder if this was his mother/father dynamic btw.) And when that beautiful list is done, listen for the many meaningful ways he now articulates how much he appreciates you. If he doesn't, it's probably time to leave him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

I believe him a lot more than I believe the self-interested spouse PP.

I am him, and thank you. It’s interesting; my wife had no problem whatsoever with my walking away and giving up all of that money because she, too, knew it was an unnecessarily grueling and unhealthy existence in so many ways for both of us. But, again, like me she managed not to get too caught up in the financial trappings either. I don’t think the majority of Biglaw partners wives are like her in that way. This seems to be being confirmed in this thread.

Since walk away from working life almost a decade ago, we have been living extremely comfortably on around $225k a year, all generated from retirement accounts and other investments that I made when working (spouse was a SAHM mom). Having just passed 60, we are still years away from collecting social security., but when that happens we will get a boost of about another $55k. That will be nice, sure, but not necessary: We haven’t had to make any lifestyle changes since retiring, because we never lived that large before. You just don’t need any more money than that, especially once the kids are grown, and it can really ruin to make so much money and then decide that you can’t live well without it.



We leave next week for a two-week trip abroad.

follow-up question: aren't most partners from wealthy/connected backgrounds? Like plenty of associates from middle class backgrounds even if they went to a T10 school, but the people who actually make partner, they come from the moneyed classes, right?

Right.

[Anonymous]

Have to disagree on this. Becoming a partner in Biglaw requires so much work and personal sacrifice that very few people with family money would be willing to put up with it. Biglaw is full of strivers and the partners are the most successful strivers, generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

I believe him a lot more than I believe the self-interested spouse PP.

I am him, and thank you. It’s interesting; my wife had no problem whatsoever with my walking away and giving up all of that money because she, too, knew it was an unnecessarily grueling and unhealthy existence in so many ways for both of us. But, again, like me she managed not to get too caught up in the financial trappings either. I don’t think the majority of Biglaw partners wives are like her in that way. This seems to be being confirmed in this thread.

Since walk away from working life almost a decade ago, we have been living extremely comfortably on around $225k a year, all generated from retirement accounts and other investments that I made when working (spouse was a SAHM mom). Having just passed 60, we are still years away from collecting social security., but when that happens we will get a boost of about another $55k. That will be nice, sure, but not necessary: We haven’t had to make any lifestyle changes since retiring, because we never lived that large before. You just don’t need any more money than that, especially once the kids are grown, and it can really ruin to make so much money and then decide that you can’t live well without it.



We leave next week for a two-week trip abroad.

follow-up question: aren't most partners from wealthy/connected backgrounds? Like plenty of associates from middle class backgrounds even if they went to a T10 school, but the people who actually make partner, they come from the moneyed classes, right?

Right.

I'd say 25 percent self made. 50 percent from well-connected lawyer families. 25 percent from wealthy but not filthy rich families. The very wealthy hire lawyers, they rarely become one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

I believe him a lot more than I believe the self-interested spouse PP.

I am him, and thank you. It’s interesting; my wife had no problem whatsoever with my walking away and giving up all of that money because she, too, knew it was an unnecessarily grueling and unhealthy existence in so many ways for both of us. But, again, like me she managed not to get too caught up in the financial trappings either. I don’t think the majority of Biglaw partners wives are like her in that way. This seems to be being confirmed in this thread.

Since walk away from working life almost a decade ago, we have been living extremely comfortably on around $225k a year, all generated from retirement accounts and other investments that I made when working (spouse was a SAHM mom). Having just passed 60, we are still years away from collecting social security., but when that happens we will get a boost of about another $55k. That will be nice, sure, but not necessary: We haven’t had to make any lifestyle changes since retiring, because we never lived that large before. You just don’t need any more money than that, especially once the kids are grown, and it can really ruin to make so much money and then decide that you can’t live well without it.



We leave next week for a two-week trip abroad.

follow-up question: aren't most partners from wealthy/connected backgrounds? Like plenty of associates from middle class backgrounds even if they went to a T10 school, but the people who actually make partner, they come from the moneyed classes, right?

I'm a partner and i was going to say yes, but now that i think through the 10-15 partners i work with the most.... I'd say they grew up either on the upper end of middle class or UMC. But no one super rich. The super rich are doing stuff like lawyering for whales (true story). But my colleagues are kids of pastors, small town doctor, professor... and a bunch whose parents i don't know about but i know they grew up in pretty dumpy areas. So unless the dad was the local small town doctor, they probably grew up solidly middle class. As another PP said, you need to work HARD to make partner. So the poor are unlikely to do it, because they don't have the role models/people who went before them to figure out how to work hard at the right things. And the super rich aren't doing it because it's alot harder than they need to work. But people whose parents went to college, get up and go to work every day, but were already in that middle or UMC to know some of the magic code stuff (ie go to college, wear the right clothes, make chit chat, etc) - that's who does well in a law firm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

I believe him a lot more than I believe the self-interested spouse PP.

I am him, and thank you. It’s interesting; my wife had no problem whatsoever with my walking away and giving up all of that money because she, too, knew it was an unnecessarily grueling and unhealthy existence in so many ways for both of us. But, again, like me she managed not to get too caught up in the financial trappings either. I don’t think the majority of Biglaw partners wives are like her in that way. This seems to be being confirmed in this thread.

Since walk away from working life almost a decade ago, we have been living extremely comfortably on around $225k a year, all generated from retirement accounts and other investments that I made when working (spouse was a SAHM mom). Having just passed 60, we are still years away from collecting social security., but when that happens we will get a boost of about another $55k. That will be nice, sure, but not necessary: We haven’t had to make any lifestyle changes since retiring, because we never lived that large before. You just don’t need any more money than that, especially once the kids are grown, and it can really ruin to make so much money and then decide that you can’t live well without it.



We leave next week for a two-week trip abroad.

follow-up question: aren't most partners from wealthy/connected backgrounds? Like plenty of associates from middle class backgrounds even if they went to a T10 school, but the people who actually make partner, they come from the moneyed classes, right?

Right.

I'd say 25 percent self made. 50 percent from well-connected lawyer families. 25 percent from wealthy but not filthy rich families. The very wealthy hire lawyers, they rarely become one.

50 percent aren't from well connected lawyer families. That's just dumb. Biglaw is about as non-nepotistic as you can get - you need a very competitive law school pedigree and gpa to get in. It's been 20 years since i heard of someone getting into big law because of their connections. Once you're in, partnership is certainly helped by who you know. But knowing other lawyers isn't that helpful. You need to know rich people in business. Not other lawyers. I'd say the biggest rainmakers in my firm went to tight private prep schools (often religious) and use those networks a lot, plus college a lot, a little bit of law school, and then also a lot of rich neighbors, church/synagogue members, golf club, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a PP who is a spouse of a partner, and it is laughable to me that an anonymous stranger could actually think they “know” that I am in denial about my partners well being. Or the well being of all our friends also in big law. There are problems in how some law firms address mental health and work life balance, and I’m proud that my partner has been a leader in addressing those issues head on in his firm - and he leads by example. He works hard, but his family and well-being (including sleep!) come first.

+1 The guy posting as retired partner apparently believes his experience is the only one, and if people claim different experiences or emotions it’s only because they are not self-aware.

The guy posting as retired partner probably knows more about how miserable his partners are/were than many of their spouses because he likely spent more time with them.

I believe him a lot more than I believe the self-interested spouse PP.

I am him, and thank you. It’s interesting; my wife had no problem whatsoever with my walking away and giving up all of that money because she, too, knew it was an unnecessarily grueling and unhealthy existence in so many ways for both of us. But, again, like me she managed not to get too caught up in the financial trappings either. I don’t think the majority of Biglaw partners wives are like her in that way. This seems to be being confirmed in this thread.

Since walk away from working life almost a decade ago, we have been living extremely comfortably on around $225k a year, all generated from retirement accounts and other investments that I made when working (spouse was a SAHM mom). Having just passed 60, we are still years away from collecting social security., but when that happens we will get a boost of about another $55k. That will be nice, sure, but not necessary: We haven’t had to make any lifestyle changes since retiring, because we never lived that large before. You just don’t need any more money than that, especially once the kids are grown, and it can really ruin to make so much money and then decide that you can’t live well without it.



We leave next week for a two-week trip abroad.

.

I tend to believe you in your experience at big law but I find it disingenuous that you think it’s the wives who want the big law partners to keep working. I think it’s likely most of them want to support the husband’s ambitions, and so the choice for them is to either divorce or accept. I don’t know if you mean it or not but you sound like you’re blaming wives for husbands wanting to be in this kind of work scenario.

I think it can be both, some spouses maybe more one than the other. I can’t believe how much money my DH earns, it’s crazy to me and he’s not even a rainmaker or anything like that. I never cared about salary; I am a fed and think a double fed life style is great! But we have to actively work to keep ourselves from getting locked into a lifestyle that requires a partner salary. I am constantly shocked by the families with multi million dollar mortgages as bad 3 kids in private school with a SAHM. If walking away means moving or pulling your kids out school, yeah that’s harder! We live in a very normal neighborhood and our kids go to public school. The biggest thing that we spend on is the best private out of pocket therapies for our SN kid, and even that if my DH wanted to like quit or even go to government we would have to be really careful to afford. We save a lot to keep ourselves from feeling trapped.

The early retired partner here. This is pretty close to the response that I would give. I’m not “blaming” the wives/spouses. But they’re not innocent either. As this poster says, the more you get caught up in lifestyle creep the harder it is to give up all that money - and the more likely you are to tighten those rose colored glasses.

How can the spouse of a Biglaw partner honestly observe the life the partner is living and say with a straight face that they’re happy and have a good life?