Feminism, femininity, and marriage

[Anonymous]

What feminists say: "Feminism is for everyone!"

What feminists mean: "Feminism is for everyone (with a college/advanced degree, who doesn't conform to traditional gender roles, except for people who disagree with what I think feminism and feminists should look like.)"

And I'm a feminist. Gag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What feminists say: "Feminism is for everyone!"

What feminists mean: "Feminism is for everyone (with a college/advanced degree, who doesn't conform to traditional gender roles, except for people who disagree with what I think feminism and feminists should look like.)"

And I'm a feminist. Gag.

Also, mostly applies to white people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A serious question for the posters who say that they don't care about feminism:

I understand that you are happy with your family structure as it is. I understand that the gender roles performed by everyone in your family are not problematic for you and that you are satisfied with the balance.

Do you care that there are women who are not experiencing that? You almost certainly know a woman who has been abused (emotionally, verbally, physically, sexually). Do you believe that that woman should have the right to challenge the abuse, to hold her abuser accountable? If her abuser is her husband, should she be allowed to divorce him? If she divorces him, does she forfeit the right to see her children?

Because we still need feminism. Many women experience equality and feel empowered. There are also many women who are trapped in toxic relationships and not empowered to make decisions about education, career, childbearing, etc. It might seem like a thing of the past to people who haven't lived it, but it's really not. I watched my childhood best friend get pregnant at age 15, forced to marry the father of the child, who was violently abusive. When she reached out for help to her parents and her pastor (you know, the people who are supposed to help you find your way in the world when you're a 16-year-old child), they told her that she must have done something to provoke him and recommended that she try to make it up to him. That was almost 20 years ago. Five years ago, I watched a close friend marry a charming sociopath who methodically isolated her from her family and friends by moving to a very remote part of Texas and then started abusing her physically and verbally when she voiced her unhappiness. She strongly believes that he sabotaged the condoms she made him wear when he demanded sex from her, and when she finally made a plan to leave, he kept her in and out of court for almost a year, trying to claim that she was an unfit mother to their infant daughter because she wanted to go back to university.

The plural of anecdote does not equal data, and if you're comfortable with enjoying your own life and not concerning yourself with the struggles of other women, then by all means, don't care about feminism.

It's just not on my radar, nor is it an issue I'm about to spend a day marching on the mall about. I have other issues in my community that I'm actively involved in.

You've made an enormous leap from my apathy over feminism to me now not caring about women who are victims of abuse and rape. It's tough for me to give you a serious answer to such a sophsophomoric question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What feminists say: "Feminism is for everyone!"

What feminists mean: "Feminism is for everyone (with a college/advanced degree, who doesn't conform to traditional gender roles, except for people who disagree with what I think feminism and feminists should look like.)"

And I'm a feminist. Gag.

Well that is why feminist now is sometimes used as a slur.

Women just can't get out of their own way. How can society as a whole respect women when we don't even respect each other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A serious question for the posters who say that they don't care about feminism:

I understand that you are happy with your family structure as it is. I understand that the gender roles performed by everyone in your family are not problematic for you and that you are satisfied with the balance.

Do you care that there are women who are not experiencing that? You almost certainly know a woman who has been abused (emotionally, verbally, physically, sexually). Do you believe that that woman should have the right to challenge the abuse, to hold her abuser accountable? If her abuser is her husband, should she be allowed to divorce him? If she divorces him, does she forfeit the right to see her children?

Because we still need feminism. Many women experience equality and feel empowered. There are also many women who are trapped in toxic relationships and not empowered to make decisions about education, career, childbearing, etc. It might seem like a thing of the past to people who haven't lived it, but it's really not. I watched my childhood best friend get pregnant at age 15, forced to marry the father of the child, who was violently abusive. When she reached out for help to her parents and her pastor (you know, the people who are supposed to help you find your way in the world when you're a 16-year-old child), they told her that she must have done something to provoke him and recommended that she try to make it up to him. That was almost 20 years ago. Five years ago, I watched a close friend marry a charming sociopath who methodically isolated her from her family and friends by moving to a very remote part of Texas and then started abusing her physically and verbally when she voiced her unhappiness. She strongly believes that he sabotaged the condoms she made him wear when he demanded sex from her, and when she finally made a plan to leave, he kept her in and out of court for almost a year, trying to claim that she was an unfit mother to their infant daughter because she wanted to go back to university.

The plural of anecdote does not equal data, and if you're comfortable with enjoying your own life and not concerning yourself with the struggles of other women, then by all means, don't care about feminism.

Domestic violence and abuse are very serious issues. Also to note, domestic violence and abuse can cut both ways, there are many men that have no access to their children. We need advocates against domestic abuse, not feminists harping on about the patriarchy. As long as there people on this earth there will be abusers both men and women. Feminism embodied in the previous poster who screeched and demeaned anyone else who had a differing opinion from her is not helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really care about feminism. I care about what makes me happy. I love taking care of my DH and my family. My DH is the head of our household and I'm not ashamed to say it. he's a great provider and a wonderful partner in life and raising out children you won't see me complaining about him on these boards. I let him be a man and he let's me be a woman. We are different on the way we were born. Our brains were wired differently and those difference compliment each other and make us better together.

And yes. I work. I love my job, but I also put my family first and it doesn't get in the way of my #1 priority, my kids and husband.

You might not feel that "head of the household" crap if you were more educated, or if he beat you.

Nice combo. More educated and beatings! "You are too dumb to recognize that you shouldn't like what you have now - if you were smarter, you'd feel the same way as if your dumb ass was getting beaten." How condescending.

Considering the fact that I'm a Columbia gratuate and attended Juilliard in High School, I think I'm covered in the education department.

I can be accomplished and at the same time embrace my biological drive. I'm not so sure why the angry stranger is so upset the happiness that I gain from my family.

But you still use "let's" for lets and "compliment" when you mean "complement." You've got music education, I guess. Just for laughs, do you not want to be the co-head of the household, along with your husband, because it's threatening to him, or ?

It's my phone dummy. The keyboard is very sensitive. why are you so angry? Is this just your personality?

My DH is simply the head of our household.That doesn't make anyone less important, nor does it diminish my role. It's not a contest.

The head is the most important. Would you say the vice president is just as important as the president in any organization? Of course appointing someone else as the "head" of your family diminishes your role. By definition. What does it mean in practical terms to you? That he tells you what to spend money on, and how much? I honestly don't understand what you mean when you use that phrase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really care about feminism. I care about what makes me happy. I love taking care of my DH and my family. My DH is the head of our household and I'm not ashamed to say it. he's a great provider and a wonderful partner in life and raising out children you won't see me complaining about him on these boards. I let him be a man and he let's me be a woman. We are different on the way we were born. Our brains were wired differently and those difference compliment each other and make us better together.

And yes. I work. I love my job, but I also put my family first and it doesn't get in the way of my #1 priority, my kids and husband.

You might not feel that "head of the household" crap if you were more educated, or if he beat you.

Nice combo. More educated and beatings! "You are too dumb to recognize that you shouldn't like what you have now - if you were smarter, you'd feel the same way as if your dumb ass was getting beaten." How condescending.

Considering the fact that I'm a Columbia gratuate and attended Juilliard in High School, I think I'm covered in the education department.

I can be accomplished and at the same time embrace my biological drive. I'm not so sure why the angry stranger is so upset the happiness that I gain from my family.

But you still use "let's" for lets and "compliment" when you mean "complement." You've got music education, I guess. Just for laughs, do you not want to be the co-head of the household, along with your husband, because it's threatening to him, or ?

It's my phone dummy. The keyboard is very sensitive. why are you so angry? Is this just your personality?

My DH is simply the head of our household.That doesn't make anyone less important, nor does it diminish my role. It's not a contest.

The "i" and the "e" are nowhere near each other on the keyboard. Admit that you didn't know it was complementary instead of complimentary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really care about feminism. I care about what makes me happy. I love taking care of my DH and my family. My DH is the head of our household and I'm not ashamed to say it. he's a great provider and a wonderful partner in life and raising out children you won't see me complaining about him on these boards. I let him be a man and he let's me be a woman. We are different on the way we were born. Our brains were wired differently and those difference compliment each other and make us better together.

And yes. I work. I love my job, but I also put my family first and it doesn't get in the way of my #1 priority, my kids and husband.

You might not feel that "head of the household" crap if you were more educated, or if he beat you.

Nice combo. More educated and beatings! "You are too dumb to recognize that you shouldn't like what you have now - if you were smarter, you'd feel the same way as if your dumb ass was getting beaten." How condescending.

Considering the fact that I'm a Columbia gratuate and attended Juilliard in High School, I think I'm covered in the education department.

I can be accomplished and at the same time embrace my biological drive. I'm not so sure why the angry stranger is so upset the happiness that I gain from my family.

+1 She has thrown out so many stereotypes why people may reject feminism. First it was because they were all angry men who were whiners. Then it was uneducated women who did not know any better and may be subjected to beatings. Then those women were weak minded tools of the patriarchy. With someone like that who can even have a serious conversation. I feel sorry for the men in her life.

You are referencing the comments of multiple posters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What feminists say: "Feminism is for everyone!"

What feminists mean: "Feminism is for everyone (with a college/advanced degree, who doesn't conform to traditional gender roles, except for people who disagree with what I think feminism and feminists should look like.)"

And I'm a feminist. Gag.

Well that is why feminist now is sometimes used as a slur.

Women just can't get out of their own way. How can society as a whole respect women when we don't even respect each other?

How can I respect a woman who defaults to her husband as head of the household just because he has a penis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A serious question for the posters who say that they don't care about feminism:

I understand that you are happy with your family structure as it is. I understand that the gender roles performed by everyone in your family are not problematic for you and that you are satisfied with the balance.

Do you care that there are women who are not experiencing that? You almost certainly know a woman who has been abused (emotionally, verbally, physically, sexually). Do you believe that that woman should have the right to challenge the abuse, to hold her abuser accountable? If her abuser is her husband, should she be allowed to divorce him? If she divorces him, does she forfeit the right to see her children?

Because we still need feminism. Many women experience equality and feel empowered. There are also many women who are trapped in toxic relationships and not empowered to make decisions about education, career, childbearing, etc. It might seem like a thing of the past to people who haven't lived it, but it's really not. I watched my childhood best friend get pregnant at age 15, forced to marry the father of the child, who was violently abusive. When she reached out for help to her parents and her pastor (you know, the people who are supposed to help you find your way in the world when you're a 16-year-old child), they told her that she must have done something to provoke him and recommended that she try to make it up to him. That was almost 20 years ago. Five years ago, I watched a close friend marry a charming sociopath who methodically isolated her from her family and friends by moving to a very remote part of Texas and then started abusing her physically and verbally when she voiced her unhappiness. She strongly believes that he sabotaged the condoms she made him wear when he demanded sex from her, and when she finally made a plan to leave, he kept her in and out of court for almost a year, trying to claim that she was an unfit mother to their infant daughter because she wanted to go back to university.

The plural of anecdote does not equal data, and if you're comfortable with enjoying your own life and not concerning yourself with the struggles of other women, then by all means, don't care about feminism.

Domestic violence and abuse are very serious issues. Also to note, domestic violence and abuse can cut both ways, there are many men that have no access to their children. We need advocates against domestic abuse, not feminists harping on about the patriarchy. As long as there people on this earth there will be abusers both men and women. Feminism embodied in the previous poster who screeched and demeaned anyone else who had a differing opinion from her is not helpful.

Okay, but I'm not that poster nor was I screeching or demeaning anybody. I was responding to someone who said specifically that she didn't care about feminism and was asking, basically, if she is able to recognize that there are women who still need advocates. Intimate partner violence affects millions of women and is widely included as a women's issue, something that feminism is concerned with.

I understand that there are people on this thread who think that feminists are shrill or pushing the wrong agenda, but since I'm actually an advocate for women who are experiencing abuse, it's hard for me personally to hear college educated women say they don't care about feminism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really care about feminism. I care about what makes me happy. I love taking care of my DH and my family. My DH is the head of our household and I'm not ashamed to say it. he's a great provider and a wonderful partner in life and raising out children you won't see me complaining about him on these boards. I let him be a man and he let's me be a woman. We are different on the way we were born. Our brains were wired differently and those difference compliment each other and make us better together.

And yes. I work. I love my job, but I also put my family first and it doesn't get in the way of my #1 priority, my kids and husband.

You might not feel that "head of the household" crap if you were more educated, or if he beat you.

Nice combo. More educated and beatings! "You are too dumb to recognize that you shouldn't like what you have now - if you were smarter, you'd feel the same way as if your dumb ass was getting beaten." How condescending.

Considering the fact that I'm a Columbia gratuate and attended Juilliard in High School, I think I'm covered in the education department.

I can be accomplished and at the same time embrace my biological drive. I'm not so sure why the angry stranger is so upset the happiness that I gain from my family.

But you still use "let's" for lets and "compliment" when you mean "complement." You've got music education, I guess. Just for laughs, do you not want to be the co-head of the household, along with your husband, because it's threatening to him, or ?

It's my phone dummy. The keyboard is very sensitive. why are you so angry? Is this just your personality?

My DH is simply the head of our household.That doesn't make anyone less important, nor does it diminish my role. It's not a contest.

The head is the most important. Would you say the vice president is just as important as the president in any organization? Of course appointing someone else as the "head" of your family diminishes your role. By definition. What does it mean in practical terms to you? That he tells you what to spend money on, and how much? I honestly don't understand what you mean when you use that phrase.

Not the PP but I tell you what it means to me. I look to him as a rock and a steady guide when I feel unmoored. I trust him in the difficult decisions that he makes after we talk through consequences together. It is comforting to me that he is the one making sure that our household unit is safe and I am helping him do it. I am very well educated and have my own finances and yet I take psychological comfort that he will watch out for me and our children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A serious question for the posters who say that they don't care about feminism:

I understand that you are happy with your family structure as it is. I understand that the gender roles performed by everyone in your family are not problematic for you and that you are satisfied with the balance.

Do you care that there are women who are not experiencing that? You almost certainly know a woman who has been abused (emotionally, verbally, physically, sexually). Do you believe that that woman should have the right to challenge the abuse, to hold her abuser accountable? If her abuser is her husband, should she be allowed to divorce him? If she divorces him, does she forfeit the right to see her children?

Because we still need feminism. Many women experience equality and feel empowered. There are also many women who are trapped in toxic relationships and not empowered to make decisions about education, career, childbearing, etc. It might seem like a thing of the past to people who haven't lived it, but it's really not. I watched my childhood best friend get pregnant at age 15, forced to marry the father of the child, who was violently abusive. When she reached out for help to her parents and her pastor (you know, the people who are supposed to help you find your way in the world when you're a 16-year-old child), they told her that she must have done something to provoke him and recommended that she try to make it up to him. That was almost 20 years ago. Five years ago, I watched a close friend marry a charming sociopath who methodically isolated her from her family and friends by moving to a very remote part of Texas and then started abusing her physically and verbally when she voiced her unhappiness. She strongly believes that he sabotaged the condoms she made him wear when he demanded sex from her, and when she finally made a plan to leave, he kept her in and out of court for almost a year, trying to claim that she was an unfit mother to their infant daughter because she wanted to go back to university.

The plural of anecdote does not equal data, and if you're comfortable with enjoying your own life and not concerning yourself with the struggles of other women, then by all means, don't care about feminism.

Domestic violence and abuse are very serious issues. Also to note, domestic violence and abuse can cut both ways, there are many men that have no access to their children. We need advocates against domestic abuse, not feminists harping on about the patriarchy. As long as there people on this earth there will be abusers both men and women. Feminism embodied in the previous poster who screeched and demeaned anyone else who had a differing opinion from her is not helpful.

Okay, but I'm not that poster nor was I screeching or demeaning anybody. I was responding to someone who said specifically that she didn't care about feminism and was asking, basically, if she is able to recognize that there are women who still need advocates. Intimate partner violence affects millions of women and is widely included as a women's issue, something that feminism is concerned with.

I understand that there are people on this thread who think that feminists are shrill or pushing the wrong agenda, but since I'm actually an advocate for women who are experiencing abuse, it's hard for me personally to hear college educated women say they don't care about feminism.

The college educated women who don't care about feminism care about domestic abuse. Noone is dismissing out domestic abuse of hand. However feminism has become a hodge podge of things..the most prominent and offputting as of late labels such as mansplaining or man spreading or ridiculous privileged ideas that don't impact women out of every day life. That is currently the face of feminism.

You don't have to be a feminist to care about domestic abuse and making sure women aren't hurt. The best example were the rapes and abuses of girls in Rotherdam. I heard tons of stupid talk from "feminists" about manspreading on subway trains or someone's shirt or why not to wrap presents on christmas. However noone even breathed a word how girls were being systematically abused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A serious question for the posters who say that they don't care about feminism:

I understand that you are happy with your family structure as it is. I understand that the gender roles performed by everyone in your family are not problematic for you and that you are satisfied with the balance.

Do you care that there are women who are not experiencing that? You almost certainly know a woman who has been abused (emotionally, verbally, physically, sexually). Do you believe that that woman should have the right to challenge the abuse, to hold her abuser accountable? If her abuser is her husband, should she be allowed to divorce him? If she divorces him, does she forfeit the right to see her children?

Because we still need feminism. Many women experience equality and feel empowered. There are also many women who are trapped in toxic relationships and not empowered to make decisions about education, career, childbearing, etc. It might seem like a thing of the past to people who haven't lived it, but it's really not. I watched my childhood best friend get pregnant at age 15, forced to marry the father of the child, who was violently abusive. When she reached out for help to her parents and her pastor (you know, the people who are supposed to help you find your way in the world when you're a 16-year-old child), they told her that she must have done something to provoke him and recommended that she try to make it up to him. That was almost 20 years ago. Five years ago, I watched a close friend marry a charming sociopath who methodically isolated her from her family and friends by moving to a very remote part of Texas and then started abusing her physically and verbally when she voiced her unhappiness. She strongly believes that he sabotaged the condoms she made him wear when he demanded sex from her, and when she finally made a plan to leave, he kept her in and out of court for almost a year, trying to claim that she was an unfit mother to their infant daughter because she wanted to go back to university.

The plural of anecdote does not equal data, and if you're comfortable with enjoying your own life and not concerning yourself with the struggles of other women, then by all means, don't care about feminism.

Domestic violence and abuse are very serious issues. Also to note, domestic violence and abuse can cut both ways, there are many men that have no access to their children. We need advocates against domestic abuse, not feminists harping on about the patriarchy. As long as there people on this earth there will be abusers both men and women. Feminism embodied in the previous poster who screeched and demeaned anyone else who had a differing opinion from her is not helpful.

Okay, but I'm not that poster nor was I screeching or demeaning anybody. I was responding to someone who said specifically that she didn't care about feminism and was asking, basically, if she is able to recognize that there are women who still need advocates. Intimate partner violence affects millions of women and is widely included as a women's issue, something that feminism is concerned with.

I understand that there are people on this thread who think that feminists are shrill or pushing the wrong agenda, but since I'm actually an advocate for women who are experiencing abuse, it's hard for me personally to hear college educated women say they don't care about feminism.

The college educated women who don't care about feminism care about domestic abuse. Noone is dismissing out domestic abuse of hand. However feminism has become a hodge podge of things..the most prominent and offputting as of late labels such as mansplaining or man spreading or ridiculous privileged ideas that don't impact women out of every day life. That is currently the face of feminism.

You don't have to be a feminist to care about domestic abuse and making sure women aren't hurt. The best example were the rapes and abuses of girls in Rotherdam. I heard tons of stupid talk from "feminists" about manspreading on subway trains or someone's shirt or why not to wrap presents on christmas. However noone even breathed a word how girls were being systematically abused.

Personally, I am involved in volunteering in events against sex trafficking issues. No, I am not a feminist.

[Anonymous]

I think that most people do not think particularly critically about their lives. We start receiving cultural messages pretty much as soon as we're born. They come from a lot of places. Our families of origin, our cultural communities, our peer groups, mass media: they all influence what we view as normal.

I wonder if the PP who is happy for her husband to be head of the household actively chose that structure, and how that choice came about. Did the couple have a conversation? What does "head of the household" mean to this family? I honestly don't think we have a head of the household in my family. My husband makes slightly more than I do. I do more cooking than he does. He does more laundry than I do. We flip coins about the trash and the litterbox. We jointly agree on things like where to live, where to vacation, whether to make a large purchase and other things like that. We parent equally. There is no "when your dad gets home" being used as a threat to a child who won't do her homework. My family of origin was like this too. I don't think that they would say that anyone was "head of the household" either. So I wonder what "head of the household" means in the PP's family? Does she get to object to her husband's decisions? What if he wants to buy a car she doesn't like? What if he wants to buy a house she doesn't like? What if he wants to have another baby and she doesn't want to? How are conflicts resolved in a system where one person is clearly designated as the boss of another person?

[Anonymous]

Here's the problem: There is no "feminist agenda." We are all different people who have different interpretations of what feminism means to us. The word has been co-opted in a bad way to mean man-haters, or pantsuit-wearing lesbian Phds (from another thread), or people who sneer at stay-at-home moms. Most of us just want to work to make sure that all women and girls have the opportunity to determine their own destinies: get an education, live in safety, make their own reproductive decisions, and enjoy the same economic, legal, and political opportunities as men. For girls to see themselves as just as smart, capable, brave, and strong as boys. Really, we're not anti-marriage, anti-family, anti-men, or even anti-pink.