Feminism, femininity, and marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty simple, women. Either abandon feminism or abandon all hope of being wives and mothers. Because men will not abide feminism and you cannot force us to accept it.

Ha, you just made me laugh out loud. This town is full of feminist wives and mothers. I think you don't know what "feminist" actually means.

They are the last zombies staggering around. Men aren't going to put up with that bullshit. It's not worth the aggravation.

LOL my husband has it so much better than his father. I earn a family supporting amount outside the home, and mother his children. Sweet deal for men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want a woman to stay home with the kids and cook, there are plenty of women who enjoy that out there, who have made the choice to do that instead of a career (but the choice is thanks to feminism).

One of the allegations in the post is that there is social pressure by feminists against women who are content with running a family.

This is my takeaway as well. I'm a feminist, but I think the feminist movement in it's current incarnation rewards women for developing traditionally masculine traits (ambition and competitiveness come to mind) while distancing itself from the "softer, gentler" feminine image. It encourages women to do well and to strive mightily in the public sphere, but seems to dismiss (or just ignore) the call of the domestic.

Feminism is a movement. It can't "reward" women for anything. Unless there are trophies I wasn't told about?!

Soft and gentle things shouldn't be forced on women, and men shouldn't be forced NOT to get to do them. If a man wants to wear nail polish or pink shirts, it doesn't make him less manly and if a woman wants to wear power suits and be a CEO, it doesn't make her less womanly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want a woman to stay home with the kids and cook, there are plenty of women who enjoy that out there, who have made the choice to do that instead of a career (but the choice is thanks to feminism).

One of the allegations in the post is that there is social pressure by feminists against women who are content with running a family.

This is my takeaway as well. I'm a feminist, but I think the feminist movement in it's current incarnation rewards women for developing traditionally masculine traits (ambition and competitiveness come to mind) while distancing itself from the "softer, gentler" feminine image. It encourages women to do well and to strive mightily in the public sphere, but seems to dismiss (or just ignore) the call of the domestic.

It's because no matter how domestic one is, one still must be able if necessary to support oneself and one's children when the alimony runs out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife is a feminist, but when we had kids we eventually settled on an arrangement that leans toward the "traditional" side. I work full time. She took the IT skills she had and developed a business she could run from home and works during school hours. Meanwhile, I do considerably more care giving and chores than my father or grandfather would have done. Neither of us is ideologically rigid but are open to solutions that work best for our particular situation.

This is what we've done as well. It has worked really well, too!

DH is from a country where men used to do almost no chores or childcare, and he really enjoys the childcare part of our family. Chores...eh, who likes those? But he listens to classic rock while he cleans up after dinner, so he makes that fun and it's kind of a cute tradition for our family, now.

DH and I are both feminists.

[Anonymous]

People have always been unhappy. Back in the "traditional" days, most families were unhappy because most men just do not have suitable personalities for marriage. Most make all women and children around them miserable. Now women can have some choice. However, it basically means we have to work 24/7 to handle both the bread winning and the family raising. There really is no good solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want a woman to stay home with the kids and cook, there are plenty of women who enjoy that out there, who have made the choice to do that instead of a career (but the choice is thanks to feminism).

One of the allegations in the post is that there is social pressure by feminists against women who are content with running a family.

This is my takeaway as well. I'm a feminist, but I think the feminist movement in it's current incarnation rewards women for developing traditionally masculine traits (ambition and competitiveness come to mind) while distancing itself from the "softer, gentler" feminine image. It encourages women to do well and to strive mightily in the public sphere, but seems to dismiss (or just ignore) the call of the domestic.

It's because no matter how domestic one is, one still must be able if necessary to support oneself and one's children when the alimony runs out.

Yeah, you can't undermine alimony for decades and the bemoan that women all want to develop a career and make money!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want a woman to stay home with the kids and cook, there are plenty of women who enjoy that out there, who have made the choice to do that instead of a career (but the choice is thanks to feminism).

One of the allegations in the post is that there is social pressure by feminists against women who are content with running a family.

This is my takeaway as well. I'm a feminist, but I think the feminist movement in it's current incarnation rewards women for developing traditionally masculine traits (ambition and competitiveness come to mind) while distancing itself from the "softer, gentler" feminine image. It encourages women to do well and to strive mightily in the public sphere, but seems to dismiss (or just ignore) the call of the domestic.

See, as a feminist and the mother of a girl child, it just breaks my heart that we are still considering ambition and competitiveness to be "masculine" traits while "soft" and "gentle" are feminine traits. This is not good for girls OR boys. I actually think that the pressure that ambitious, competitive (read: professional) women face is that they are expected to demonstrate ambition and competition at work, are expected to be nurturing and mothering and loving and intimate at home and are also expected to take care of the house. The pendulum has not swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women avoid home, do not marry." It's swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women do all work, while also being out of the house for 8-10 hours per day." It's exhausting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want a woman to stay home with the kids and cook, there are plenty of women who enjoy that out there, who have made the choice to do that instead of a career (but the choice is thanks to feminism).

One of the allegations in the post is that there is social pressure by feminists against women who are content with running a family.

This is my takeaway as well. I'm a feminist, but I think the feminist movement in it's current incarnation rewards women for developing traditionally masculine traits (ambition and competitiveness come to mind) while distancing itself from the "softer, gentler" feminine image. It encourages women to do well and to strive mightily in the public sphere, but seems to dismiss (or just ignore) the call of the domestic.

See, as a feminist and the mother of a girl child, it just breaks my heart that we are still considering ambition and competitiveness to be "masculine" traits while "soft" and "gentle" are feminine traits. This is not good for girls OR boys. I actually think that the pressure that ambitious, competitive (read: professional) women face is that they are expected to demonstrate ambition and competition at work, are expected to be nurturing and mothering and loving and intimate at home and are also expected to take care of the house. The pendulum has not swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women avoid home, do not marry." It's swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women do all work, while also being out of the house for 8-10 hours per day." It's exhausting!

YES, THIS!

I have a girl and a boy. I am teaching them that they both need to pull their weight at home and at work. That is the only fair way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People have always been unhappy. Back in the "traditional" days, most families were unhappy because most men just do not have suitable personalities for marriage. Most make all women and children around them miserable. Now women can have some choice. However, it basically means we have to work 24/7 to handle both the bread winning and the family raising. There really is no good solution.

So men's personalities changed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well then, luckily loser dude won't be passing on his genes or personality to any future generations. So this generation of failure men -- ones who can't help out at home and also can't live up to higher expectations -- will die out. Fingers crossed all the FWB women they are hooking up with are feminist enough to use BC.

It is the feminists who are not breeding and who will die out.

I'm a feminist and I have four kids. And I'm teaching all of them (2 boys and 2 girls) to be feminists too. The only ones dying out are the antifeminists and that's why you can hear them screaming so loudly. Their last ditch effort to stay relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want a woman to stay home with the kids and cook, there are plenty of women who enjoy that out there, who have made the choice to do that instead of a career (but the choice is thanks to feminism).

One of the allegations in the post is that there is social pressure by feminists against women who are content with running a family.

This is my takeaway as well. I'm a feminist, but I think the feminist movement in it's current incarnation rewards women for developing traditionally masculine traits (ambition and competitiveness come to mind) while distancing itself from the "softer, gentler" feminine image. It encourages women to do well and to strive mightily in the public sphere, but seems to dismiss (or just ignore) the call of the domestic.

See, as a feminist and the mother of a girl child, it just breaks my heart that we are still considering ambition and competitiveness to be "masculine" traits while "soft" and "gentle" are feminine traits. This is not good for girls OR boys. I actually think that the pressure that ambitious, competitive (read: professional) women face is that they are expected to demonstrate ambition and competition at work, are expected to be nurturing and mothering and loving and intimate at home and are also expected to take care of the house. The pendulum has not swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women avoid home, do not marry." It's swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women do all work, while also being out of the house for 8-10 hours per day." It's exhausting!

Notice I said "traditionally." My point is that feminism does not seem to embrace women who embody traditionally feminine traits, which I think shows that despite the earnestness of the movement, the patriarchy prevails. It is not enough to be a woman, you have to have professional ambitions above all else to be considered a true feminist. Feminist culture marginalizes/discounts women who don't fit it's mold of the ideal woman. (Kim Kardashian, Sarah Palin, etc). Femininity is considered frivolous, trite, or weak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want a woman to stay home with the kids and cook, there are plenty of women who enjoy that out there, who have made the choice to do that instead of a career (but the choice is thanks to feminism).

One of the allegations in the post is that there is social pressure by feminists against women who are content with running a family.

This is my takeaway as well. I'm a feminist, but I think the feminist movement in it's current incarnation rewards women for developing traditionally masculine traits (ambition and competitiveness come to mind) while distancing itself from the "softer, gentler" feminine image. It encourages women to do well and to strive mightily in the public sphere, but seems to dismiss (or just ignore) the call of the domestic.

See, as a feminist and the mother of a girl child, it just breaks my heart that we are still considering ambition and competitiveness to be "masculine" traits while "soft" and "gentle" are feminine traits. This is not good for girls OR boys. I actually think that the pressure that ambitious, competitive (read: professional) women face is that they are expected to demonstrate ambition and competition at work, are expected to be nurturing and mothering and loving and intimate at home and are also expected to take care of the house. The pendulum has not swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women avoid home, do not marry." It's swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women do all work, while also being out of the house for 8-10 hours per day." It's exhausting!

Is it wrong to identify certain traits as masculine or feminine? The genders are distinct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want a woman to stay home with the kids and cook, there are plenty of women who enjoy that out there, who have made the choice to do that instead of a career (but the choice is thanks to feminism).

One of the allegations in the post is that there is social pressure by feminists against women who are content with running a family.

This is my takeaway as well. I'm a feminist, but I think the feminist movement in it's current incarnation rewards women for developing traditionally masculine traits (ambition and competitiveness come to mind) while distancing itself from the "softer, gentler" feminine image. It encourages women to do well and to strive mightily in the public sphere, but seems to dismiss (or just ignore) the call of the domestic.

See, as a feminist and the mother of a girl child, it just breaks my heart that we are still considering ambition and competitiveness to be "masculine" traits while "soft" and "gentle" are feminine traits. This is not good for girls OR boys. I actually think that the pressure that ambitious, competitive (read: professional) women face is that they are expected to demonstrate ambition and competition at work, are expected to be nurturing and mothering and loving and intimate at home and are also expected to take care of the house. The pendulum has not swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women avoid home, do not marry." It's swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women do all work, while also being out of the house for 8-10 hours per day." It's exhausting!

Notice I said "traditionally." My point is that feminism does not seem to embrace women who embody traditionally feminine traits, which I think shows that despite the earnestness of the movement, the patriarchy prevails. It is not enough to be a woman, you have to have professional ambitions above all else to be considered a true feminist. Feminist culture marginalizes/discounts women who don't fit it's mold of the ideal woman. (Kim Kardashian, Sarah Palin, etc). Femininity is considered frivolous, trite, or weak.

Femininity is irrelevant to the larger political issues. I'm a sexy feminist, but the fact that I'm sexy doesn't matter one iota beyond my marriage. What matters is my larger contribution to society. If all you're doing is being feminine, yes, I look down on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want a woman to stay home with the kids and cook, there are plenty of women who enjoy that out there, who have made the choice to do that instead of a career (but the choice is thanks to feminism).

One of the allegations in the post is that there is social pressure by feminists against women who are content with running a family.

This is my takeaway as well. I'm a feminist, but I think the feminist movement in it's current incarnation rewards women for developing traditionally masculine traits (ambition and competitiveness come to mind) while distancing itself from the "softer, gentler" feminine image. It encourages women to do well and to strive mightily in the public sphere, but seems to dismiss (or just ignore) the call of the domestic.

See, as a feminist and the mother of a girl child, it just breaks my heart that we are still considering ambition and competitiveness to be "masculine" traits while "soft" and "gentle" are feminine traits. This is not good for girls OR boys. I actually think that the pressure that ambitious, competitive (read: professional) women face is that they are expected to demonstrate ambition and competition at work, are expected to be nurturing and mothering and loving and intimate at home and are also expected to take care of the house. The pendulum has not swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women avoid home, do not marry." It's swung from "women stay home, do all work" to "women do all work, while also being out of the house for 8-10 hours per day." It's exhausting!

Is it wrong to identify certain traits as masculine or feminine? The genders are distinct.

So because I have been highly ambitious and competitive my whole life, I'm not feminine?

[Anonymous]

I consider myself a true feminist, and am shocked that I am clearly not getting the Feminist Agenda that requires me to hate on other women for making individual choices and also to reject family life in favor of a high-powered career.