If DH is a law firm partner, must I be the default parent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:11 again -- I wrote that your DH can absolutely participate equally in shopping for your kids' presents, but I want to add that you can also help him out with a present for your MIL. How hard is it to frame an adorable picture of your kids and order up a wine-and-cheese-of-the-month club membership? The real issue here is why you two aren't on the same team. That's the whole point of marriage, isn't it?

Agree re: the point of marriage, but OP's DH doesn't want to work as a team. He wants to do what he wants to do, and have OP work around that.

Right?

that depends on the money issue, quite frankly. yes, it may be tough to be the default parent (especially if you work), but I think that if one person is shouldering most of the financial burden, that sucks too. it is very stressful to be the primary/sole source of income. I say this as the primary breadwinner AND default parent in my house, who decided long ago that it was better for me to take over the gift giving, social organizing, etc because it was more important to have decent relationships with his family than to try to force him to do something he didn't care about/want to do/wasn't good at. Sometimes doing it yourself is just easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, unless you want your child to be brought up by a nanny. If that is the case, get a good one. And a great preschool also.

This is exactly right. As a law firm partner, his clients come first so by definition he cannot commit to any family obligations.

So there are two solutions for his problem of child care for his child.

1. He can compromise.
2. He can tell OP that she has to compromise.

There are a lot of unexamined assumptions here.

The thing is, he can't compromise. The compromise is to get a nanny. The law firm partner (assuming a top tier firm) is never going to be able to cancel a meeting to take a sick kid to the doctor or commit to show up at a play or sports game. Once in a while it will work out, and the partner can come to a sports event or chaperone a field trip, but the other spouse or nanny has got to be there as a back-up if the partner suddenly has a big meeting come up. Just the way it is.

This just isn't true. My dad is a (litigation) partner at one of the top firms in DC, and when my brothers were in high school, came to every single Langley lacrosse game for four years running -- and he wasn't the only similarly situated team dad who did. I work in biglaw now and I see it all the time -- there are people who want to make it work with family, and those who don't. It's not always perfect, but nearly all the time, it's a personality and priorities question, not a job issue.

There is a HUGE gap between actually pulling your weight at home, and just making it to 2 hockey games a week and a doctor's appointment every now and then. As a matter of physics, it's just impossible to be as involved a parent/spouse if you work in biglaw, because biglaw requires so much of your time, all the time. There are a FEW niches with lower hourly requirements (like my friend who is a partner specializing in public housing finance at a big firm) but mostly you're going to be working 60+hrs/week unpredictably. Yes, if you are committed you can probably make it to some sports games and doctor's appointments ... once you make partner. But forget about it when you are an associate and do not control your schedule. And I can't even imagine how it works with younger kids who have a lot more needs, more sickness, more time intensive requirements. There's just no way a law partner or associate gunning for partner can be a hands-on parent and partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a nanny. Both of my employers are lawyers ( Dad a partner, MB about to make partner). Her schedule is a little more flexible but I work 50-60/hr weeks. Most days I put the baby to bed. I love my job and my employers are involved when they can be but I've learned never to marry a lawyer who plans on being a partner. They make a great loving but the dad works up to 90 hours weeks sometimes. I think both parents should do as much as they can but the mom does tend to do whatever I don't.

That would break my heart. No amount of money in the world is worth being away from your child 50-60 hours a week. Even worse if both parents are doing it. You are their mother at this point. Why do people like that even have kids? And to clarify, I am not anti WOHM. I work. My DH has a very demanding job, but doesn't (and wouldn't) work a 60 hour work week. That's just not fair to the children.

I feel like a significant number of working parents in the dc area need 50 hours a week of child care, between work and commuting...

50 hrs is barely ok, 60 is getting into "child being raised by nanny" territory. We had a nanny from 8:30-6:30, although most days we were out of the house from more like 9-6 by staggering out schedules a bit. That left plenty of time to be with the kiddo in AMs, PMs, and weekends. I think a lot of parents with big jobs also push bedtime late so they have a solid 2-3 hrs with the kid at home at night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:11 again -- I wrote that your DH can absolutely participate equally in shopping for your kids' presents, but I want to add that you can also help him out with a present for your MIL. How hard is it to frame an adorable picture of your kids and order up a wine-and-cheese-of-the-month club membership? The real issue here is why you two aren't on the same team. That's the whole point of marriage, isn't it?

Agree re: the point of marriage, but OP's DH doesn't want to work as a team. He wants to do what he wants to do, and have OP work around that.

Right?

The thing is, we don't [/b]know[b] that. There are 2 sides to every story -- especially in a marriage. And, in any case, somebody has to be the grown-up here. I'm wondering what would happen if OP said to DH, "Let's pick a night when we can talk about Christmas presents after DC is tucked into bed. We'll have a bottle of wine, fire up that internet thang, whip out the plastic and go to town. Whadda ya say, honey?"

Speaking for myself, that approach would just add to the difficulty of the chore, not help. I'd rather just do something myself than have to cajole DH (and deal with his inevitable whining/resistance) and then sit with him to force him to actually do it. No thank you. The only thing that works for me is to figure out the things that DH will reliably do on his own with no prompting from me, and assign him those things.

[Anonymous]

BigLaw wife here: Most of the wives of partners have low hour jobs. Or they do not work at all, especially when the kids are young. Very few double partner couples with children. Those who do, have a LOT of extra help. Female BigLaw partners often do not have children. Check it out -- there are not that many female Biglaw partners in the first place.

[Anonymous]

PLEASE BigLaw DH, not 5 minutes on Amazon. Just more returns for me. That's OK, I can take care of buying the presents.

[Anonymous]

There seems to be an expanded version of the term Biglaw. To me Biglaw is partner in a top tier private firm, not government, not military. Not part time -- good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

OP checking back in after catching up, wowza. I do not want a lacrosse game or vacations-only dad as coparent, no offense to the PP with biglaw dad. Now there are smartphones so that whole scene is different. DH doesn't like the hours he works; he is not trying to avoid us. But he's scared to be jobless. He has tried to move to government in the past and been dinged repeatedly. Maybe he can move inhouse, but that isn't as common in his litigation niche. I have a JD/MBA and work in a nonlegal, but senior role, at a nonprofit. The work culture is very different. There are only so many hours in the day and his job takes up too many of them. He doesn't disagree, and I don't necessarily disagree that he shouldn't be ordering stuff on amazon if it means he get home even later. It's not a case of golden handcuffs. We don't need that partner salary. I appreciate the many informed and thoughtful responses on this thread.

[Anonymous]

If you really do want a more involved husband/father for your children, he is going to have to leave biglaw. It just isn't conducive to being super involved. I personally do not think that means he can't be a good husband/father, because I have seen people do it in biglaw. I do think it means he can't be the one to handle the details of your life together. Someone else needs to so he can have quality time with you and the kids when he has free time. Have you thought about hiring some of this stuff out? I mean, it doesn't really matter who buys the toilet paper or schedules the doctor visits. Maybe a personal assistant would be helpful?

[Anonymous]

OP, you have set it out perfectly. He needs to spend all of his energy outside of keeping his job, finding a new one (outside of biglaw). I am a litigator who went in house after being a partner. It can be done but it's extremely difficult and if he's young (under 40) he needs to make a move now before it gets to be too late because he's too senior. He needs to come up with a marketing plan, reach out to head hunters, etc. You all may have to leave the DC area since most in house jobs really aren't here.

If you want to stay married, you need to support this change and do whatever it takes tot make it happen. When he's in a less stressful job, you will get your husband back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP checking back in after catching up, wowza. I do not want a lacrosse game or vacations-only dad as coparent, no offense to the PP with biglaw dad. Now there are smartphones so that whole scene is different. DH doesn't like the hours he works; he is not trying to avoid us. But he's scared to be jobless. He has tried to move to government in the past and been dinged repeatedly. Maybe he can move inhouse, but that isn't as common in his litigation niche. I have a JD/MBA and work in a nonlegal, but senior role, at a nonprofit. The work culture is very different. There are only so many hours in the day and his job takes up too many of them. He doesn't disagree, and I don't necessarily disagree that he shouldn't be ordering stuff on amazon if it means he get home even later. It's not a case of golden handcuffs. We don't need that partner salary. I appreciate the many informed and thoughtful responses on this thread.

You seem very reasonable. It is very hard position to be in, both yours and your husbands. It sounds like he should begin his search again. In the meantime, try to either hire out tasks or give him a break on things like this. His free time should be spent on searching for a job and spending actual quality time with the family so that the relationships survive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP checking back in after catching up, wowza. I do not want a lacrosse game or vacations-only dad as coparent, no offense to the PP with biglaw dad. Now there are smartphones so that whole scene is different. DH doesn't like the hours he works; he is not trying to avoid us. But he's scared to be jobless. He has tried to move to government in the past and been dinged repeatedly. Maybe he can move inhouse, but that isn't as common in his litigation niche. I have a JD/MBA and work in a nonlegal, but senior role, at a nonprofit. The work culture is very different. There are only so many hours in the day and his job takes up too many of them. He doesn't disagree, and I don't necessarily disagree that he shouldn't be ordering stuff on amazon if it means he get home even later. It's not a case of golden handcuffs. We don't need that partner salary. I appreciate the many informed and thoughtful responses on this thread.

You seem very reasonable. It is very hard position to be in, both yours and your husbands. It sounds like he should begin his search again. In the meantime, try to either hire out tasks or give him a break on things like this. His free time should be spent on searching for a job and spending actual quality time with the family so that the relationships survive.

This, this this. I am not in your shoes exactly but I can feel similar things to your post. We have just 1 child but are looking to start for #2 next year and DH's job is about 55-60 per week with commute (out the door at 6:30, home at about 6:30, sometimes later, occasionally earlier and probably 4 hours from home per week if you add up evenings and weekends). He's no in law, but in tech and climbing the ladder steadily so he takes a lot home with him in his head too. His company runs 24/7 (they actually build things!) so texts and emails are never, ever really gone.

I switched fields (low paying nonprofit) just 2 years ago so our solution right now is for me to be able to work 70% schedule since if we are being realistic, my career path isn't going to be something that picks up probably until later in life. Which I am OK with as long as I can keep at least a foot in the door.

We just had a talk about trying to avoid me being the "default" parent and us building our partnership for these things as our toddler gets older and we add more to the mix. I think talking about it is good. I know that I will take over the day to day a lot more in the next few years but DH is conscious now of how much the "default" parent has to constantly keep straight, manage and think about and I think it helps that he is on board to have ownership over that with me, the sort of "knowledge management" of the house.

Talk to him. It will absolutely help to talk it out rather than speculate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:11 again -- I wrote that your DH can absolutely participate equally in shopping for your kids' presents, but I want to add that you can also help him out with a present for your MIL. How hard is it to frame an adorable picture of your kids and order up a wine-and-cheese-of-the-month club membership? The real issue here is why you two aren't on the same team. That's the whole point of marriage, isn't it?

Agree re: the point of marriage, but OP's DH doesn't want to work as a team. He wants to do what he wants to do, and have OP work around that.

Right?

that depends on the money issue, quite frankly. yes, it may be tough to be the default parent (especially if you work), but I think that if one person is shouldering most of the financial burden, that sucks too. it is very stressful to be the primary/sole source of income. I say this as the primary breadwinner AND default parent in my house, who decided long ago that it was better for me to take over the gift giving, social organizing, etc because it was more important to have decent relationships with his family than to try to force him to do something he didn't care about/want to do/wasn't good at. Sometimes doing it yourself is just easier.

Not really. It's a simple question: Does DH want what he wants and for OP to work around that? Or does he want to reconsider their marriage and family setup from the basis of no assumptions?

I know (from personal experience) that it is stressful to be the primary (or sole) source of income. But that's not the point of the above post. The point is, does the DH want to remove all assumptions and work as a team, or not?

[Anonymous]

I agree with the prior poster who said it is about personality and priorities - if a law partner wants to make family time a priority, he or she certainly can and should. If the concern isn't really about family time, but about getting the household chores done, then I think that is a harder sell. But marriage is supposed to be a partnership if he or she doesn't want to do their share tell them they need to hire someone else to do the grocery shopping, laundry, house cleaning, house decorating - their in biglaw, right? And honestly I don't think it matters one whit to the kids who does the chores - it matters who picks them up and comes to their events and plays with them, but the laundry?? Forget about it - that is not parenting.

[Anonymous]

DH doesn't want to be in biglaw . He's stuck because he can't find another job (which would likely solve most of OP's problems). I honestly think this is a situation where you have to grin and bear it and help him hustle to something else. All of this "talking" is an absolute waste of time. OP's husband cannot be present as a partner or father while working biglaw beyond the bare minimum. That's just the way it is. It seems like they both want to change that, so really, the most productive thing is for OP to continue to the heavy lifting until her DH funds another job.