Can we have a rational discussion about going Greek?

[Anonymous]

I liked Harlan Cohen’s take on rush.

tldr: Approach it as a buyer, not a seller.

Look for groups that fit who you are, as you are. Don’t try to change or sell yourself to fit in to a target group.

Tip 1504:
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1CKkiXSrwJ/?mibextid=wwXIfrr

[Anonymous]

Duke tried to de influence Greek life, they are a real headache for all colleges. The problem is it pushed them to hosting large parties in fields that are unsafe and nuisance to residents. They are walking on dark roads, encouraging drunk driving, trespassing and a bother to people and animals that live there. Let alone the mess left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Duke tried to de influence Greek life, they are a real headache for all colleges. The problem is it pushed them to hosting large parties in fields that are unsafe and nuisance to residents. They are walking on dark roads, encouraging drunk driving, trespassing and a bother to people and animals that live there. Let alone the mess left.

Ugh. Any sense of how dominant they are socially at Duke these days? What if a super social kid chose not to rush? Could they still join some of the parties if/when they wanted to? Are there other parties open to all? And when is rush, by the way? Fall semester or spring?

FWIW, one of the things I loved in the 90s was that parties/kegs were open to all, unless it was a mixer or formal. Also that sorority rush was spring semester, after we had established strong friendships. Huge plus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I liked Harlan Cohen’s take on rush.

tldr: Approach it as a buyer, not a seller.

Look for groups that fit who you are, as you are. Don’t try to change or sell yourself to fit in to a target group.

Tip 1504:
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1CKkiXSrwJ/?mibextid=wwXIfrr

That’s great advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I liked Harlan Cohen’s take on rush.

tldr: Approach it as a buyer, not a seller.

Look for groups that fit who you are, as you are. Don’t try to change or sell yourself to fit in to a target group.

Tip 1504:
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1CKkiXSrwJ/?mibextid=wwXIfrr

That’s what they say. But when you are left with only one house that didn’t feel like a match, one that you didn’t choose in the process, they tell you you’re a brat or accuse you of only wanting one house and say you should be grateful. The houses are allowed to have preferences but the PNM really aren’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant kid in college I found it exclusionary as hell. I am glad my own kids aren't interested.

You were unfortunately at the wrong college then. Totally not the experience I had.

How can it be non-exclusionary if only a small percentage of people who rush are accepted?

at university of alabama, one of the biggest recruitments, as long as you meet guidelines (GPA and such and do not have any red flags, every girl will get a bid as long as she maximizes her options all the way through. it may not be to the house she wished for, but it will be a bid.

This is still pretty exclusionary. And before you @me, I was in a sorority at a big SEC school.

Yeah. These Panhellenic women are queens of gaslighting and “newspeak.”

“Maximizing her chances” means “take what you get, your own feelings, preferences, etc be damned”. If you get the catch-all new house that no one wants, it’s just “where you belong” and instead of having fun, you’ll be working for four years to make the house grow to benefit the university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a regional DC thing to be so anti-Greek.

DMV exceptionalism is measured on academic/EC achievement with the ethos that you can climb into any white collar knowledge job you want with enough effort.

Southern culture (think Alabama) is about “fitting in” to a certain social ideal as the top goal.

New England is about maintaining legacy. Status is built around number and “value of” connections that get passed along each generation.

I grew up New York. It was much more regionally focused where the ultimate win was a wall street job. Hence, competitive college culture was very focused on getting into the Wall Street pipeline schools and making those specific connections to support future career goals.

I’m in nyc now and it’s anti-Greek. It’s not elite enough for many, unless you’re talking Greek at Yale

Yes I'm also in NYC and it's anti-greek. Same for when I was in SF. It seems like it's out of fashion with wealthy, cosmopolitan families who live on the coasts but still in fashion in the south (which includes some DMV) and midwest.

I can only speak for UPenn, but there are plenty of very wealthy NYC kids that participate in Greek life. It’s different than southern Frats, but definitely different levels of eliteness and exclusivity.

Are you trying to distinguish an Eating Club or a Finals Club as something different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked Harlan Cohen’s take on rush.

tldr: Approach it as a buyer, not a seller.

Look for groups that fit who you are, as you are. Don’t try to change or sell yourself to fit in to a target group.

Tip 1504:
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1CKkiXSrwJ/?mibextid=wwXIfrr

That’s great advice.

I posted a few pages ago about my daughter at UVA. That is exactly how she approached rush. It can be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked Harlan Cohen’s take on rush.

tldr: Approach it as a buyer, not a seller.

Look for groups that fit who you are, as you are. Don’t try to change or sell yourself to fit in to a target group.

Tip 1504:
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1CKkiXSrwJ/?mibextid=wwXIfrr

That’s what they say. But when you are left with only one house that didn’t feel like a match, one that you didn’t choose in the process, they tell you you’re a brat or accuse you of only wanting one house and say you should be grateful. The houses are allowed to have preferences but the PNM really aren’t.

It’s really hard! I turned down the bid that I got because I was SO upset about not getting bids from my top two choices. That third “choice” never really felt like a good fit.

Fast forward a year, and I had made a ton of friends in that house. So many that I rushed again as a sophomore, specifically to join them. Turned out be a great fit, and many of us are close to this day.

No regrets about declining the bid first year, though. I wasn’t ready yet to choose them. Had to figure it out on my own timeline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant kid in college I found it exclusionary as hell. I am glad my own kids aren't interested.

You were unfortunately at the wrong college then. Totally not the experience I had.

How can it be non-exclusionary if only a small percentage of people who rush are accepted?

at university of alabama, one of the biggest recruitments, as long as you meet guidelines (GPA and such and do not have any red flags, every girl will get a bid as long as she maximizes her options all the way through. it may not be to the house she wished for, but it will be a bid.

This is still pretty exclusionary. And before you @me, I was in a sorority at a big SEC school.

Yeah. These Panhellenic women are queens of gaslighting and “newspeak.”

“Maximizing her chances” means “take what you get, your own feelings, preferences, etc be damned”. If you get the catch-all new house that no one wants, it’s just “where you belong” and instead of having fun, you’ll be working for four years to make the house grow to benefit the university.

What does this mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant kid in college I found it exclusionary as hell. I am glad my own kids aren't interested.

You were unfortunately at the wrong college then. Totally not the experience I had.

How can it be non-exclusionary if only a small percentage of people who rush are accepted?

at university of alabama, one of the biggest recruitments, as long as you meet guidelines (GPA and such and do not have any red flags, every girl will get a bid as long as she maximizes her options all the way through. it may not be to the house she wished for, but it will be a bid.

This is still pretty exclusionary. And before you @me, I was in a sorority at a big SEC school.

Yeah. These Panhellenic women are queens of gaslighting and “newspeak.”

“Maximizing her chances” means “take what you get, your own feelings, preferences, etc be damned”. If you get the catch-all new house that no one wants, it’s just “where you belong” and instead of having fun, you’ll be working for four years to make the house grow to benefit the university.

+1. Not to mention funding it.

[Anonymous]

[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a regional DC thing to be so anti-Greek.

DMV exceptionalism is measured on academic/EC achievement with the ethos that you can climb into any white collar knowledge job you want with enough effort.

Southern culture (think Alabama) is about “fitting in” to a certain social ideal as the top goal.

New England is about maintaining legacy. Status is built around number and “value of” connections that get passed along each generation.

I grew up New York. It was much more regionally focused where the ultimate win was a wall street job. Hence, competitive college culture was very focused on getting into the Wall Street pipeline schools and making those specific connections to support future career goals.

I’m in nyc now and it’s anti-Greek. It’s not elite enough for many, unless you’re talking Greek at Yale

Yes I'm also in NYC and it's anti-greek. Same for when I was in SF. It seems like it's out of fashion with wealthy, cosmopolitan families who live on the coasts but still in fashion in the south (which includes some DMV) and midwest.

So why are all of these wealthy NY and NJ families paying thousands of dollars for rush coaches for their baby girls, so they can have the bama rush tik tok experience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a thread. Are you all so insecure in how you've parented and in the kids that you've raised that you can't let your kids make their own choices without judging other kids and other parents?

We knew nothing about Greek before our oldest went to UVA. Neither did she. All we knew was that UVA was a great school, it was in state tuition, she was happy to go there, and it had a Greek system.

I don't remember how we reacted when she decided to rush, but I do remember her stories about the process. She went into the whole thing very open minded and very confident -- she just figured she'd be herself, as she always has been, and see where the chips fell. More than anything else, she has a good sense of humor and was looking to connect with other girls who were the same way. So she didn't hold back, not even a little, and in the end got a bid to a nice sorority with good and smart girls, had a great four years, and has stayed friends with them. They've all become happy, successful, well rounded, independent, open-minded women.

Had she not gotten a bid, trust me -- she would have survived.

I don't understand what everyone's problem is. If you've raised your kid right for the first 18 years, you need to trust them to make their own decisions when they get to college, and not deride other kids who make different ones. If you're not doing that, you've either raised kids who aren't confident, or you're not confident in either them or yourself, and that's not good.

To me, the vitriol and defensiveness that I'm seeing here is really just a mask for lack of confidence.

I find the biggest lack of confidence stems from people who think they have to rush in order to make friends or have a social life. The most confident people have no problem not going Greek and make friends wherever they are, with people in their shared clubs/organizations/dorms/etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son had an interesting take on it. He’s had several fraternities reach out to him but he isn’t interested. In his opinion it’s A. Weird to pay for friends B. More about gaining social protection by subjugating your will and moral compass to a group and C Limiting as he enjoys bringing together different groups of people. My daughter had a slightly different but similar opinion that she didn’t want some other group picking and dictating her friends for her. She is shockingly beautiful so the queen bees always zero in on her to get her to join their cliques and she’s always rebuffed them, picked her own friends.

Both kids have a strong protect the weaker person ethos and can’t stand people who reject or pick on people to boost their own popularity. Greek life seems to attract people willing to follow not lead, and prey on the weaker people rather than defend.

I do agree with the not wanting to pay for friends. When I att need college rush was fall literally during new student week before clssses had begun. Kids had 2 days on campus then bam! Rush started. So no chance for people to make their own friends and those that had started ended up going different ways because they ended up in different sororities

Someone explain “paying for friends”. The phrase is thrown around all the time and makes little sense.

Is joining any organization where you pay dues (a pool club, a running club, a rec softball team, etc.) and receive a product in return “paying for friends”?

My kid saves money with their fraternity fees compared to the other room & board options…how is that “paying for friends”?

DP. Do the pool club, running club, and rec softball team decide whether or not they will allow you to join based on ambiguous reasons, or is anyone allowed as long as they pay the fee?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, anti-Greek means you're at college to focus on your studies. Sounds right to me!

I don't think it's necessarily one or the other. My DD had no interest in rushing, but she still has a blast with friends going to frat parties, etc. And she's also an excellent student and very involved in other activities. Just because someone isn't interested in going Greek doesn't mean they're anti-parties or fun.