Can we have a rational discussion about going Greek?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My nephew is in a frat at UW. There is a lot of forced binge drinking and getting blackout drunk pretty regularly, which he'd never done before. That gives me pause.

Uh huh. I’m sure he shares that with his Auntie.

Bullshit.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What a thread. Are you all so insecure in how you've parented and in the kids that you've raised that you can't let your kids make their own choices without judging other kids and other parents?

We knew nothing about Greek before our oldest went to UVA. Neither did she. All we knew was that UVA was a great school, it was in state tuition, she was happy to go there, and it had a Greek system.

I don't remember how we reacted when she decided to rush, but I do remember her stories about the process. She went into the whole thing very open minded and very confident -- she just figured she'd be herself, as she always has been, and see where the chips fell. More than anything else, she has a good sense of humor and was looking to connect with other girls who were the same way. So she didn't hold back, not even a little, and in the end got a bid to a nice sorority with good and smart girls, had a great four years, and has stayed friends with them. They've all become happy, successful, well rounded, independent, open-minded women.

Had she not gotten a bid, trust me -- she would have survived.

I don't understand what everyone's problem is. If you've raised your kid right for the first 18 years, you need to trust them to make their own decisions when they get to college, and not deride other kids who make different ones. If you're not doing that, you've either raised kids who aren't confident, or you're not confident in either them or yourself, and that's not good.

To me, the vitriol and defensiveness that I'm seeing here is really just a mask for lack of confidence.

I said I made lifelong friends from my time in a house, but found it ultimately limiting. You can call that vitriol and a lack of confidence if you want to. I have enough confidence not to get worked up about it

So because that's how you found it, that means everyone should feel the same way?

Good thing I never said that. I was responding to the “rational discussion” idea. Those are my thoughts. Hope your kids love it.

But the whole "I found it limiting" would have as much to do with you as the system, right? For example, my Greek kid had friends both in and out of her house and was a bridesmaid years later in her first year roommate's wedding -- who never even rushed.

Sounds like you approached it as something that confined you. Not everyone does.

This is not the flex you think it is.

Well, that makes zero sense.

I didn't mean it to be a "flex." I'm just stating a fact. You allowed going Greek to "limit" you. Not everyone does. Fact.

I'm not the person who posted about limiting (although I agree). But my flex comment is because what you wrote calls back to the ol "we can't be racist. one of my son's groomsmen was black!" joke that it's uncanny.

That is such a stretch that it’s not only ridiculous it’s downright offensive. It’s like the Florida Surgeon General equating forced vaccines with slavery.

Unlike you, I don’t downplay real racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any mention of going Greek on this forum is always a trigger. Why is that? Why do people care so much? I mean, if it's not your thing, great, but why judge so harshly when somebody else does it?

Honestly, for me I see it as one of the last vestiges of white social exclusion along with country clubs.

I can get into most country clubs but a few still won't take me because I am not white. I think there is something similar with fraternities/sororities.
These are institutions that make it easy to be racist and they frequently attract students that are racist, indifferent to racism, or at least tolerant of racism.
So when you say "didn't get a bid hunh?" it sounds like racists rubbing it in.

I have a niece, objectively gorgeous and she wanted to join a sorority and it was no big deal because she was going to a northeastern school where the greek system has integrated.
But I know a kid that went to Duke and he is extremely athletic, smart, confident and popular and he ended up transferring to Chicago or all places to get the F out of there after his experience with the greek system. He was expected to accept a certain level or racism as playful, but the racism only went one way. This is not to single out Dule, I expect this is true at a lot of schools.

Yea, well, Duke will be Duke.

[Anonymous]

DS was rush chair and president at T25, so after bids went out he’d always have to talk to reluctant parents. After one conversation, the student sent a heartfelt text to DS saying that his parents still weren’t on board but that he was grateful that the past 2.5 weeks made him realize that someday he’d find a group because he didn’t have any friends in HS, and thanked DS for being so kind. DS is a softie so that one got him.

Those are the kind of parents who are anti-fraternity but shouldn’t be.

Also, pps are FOS that wealthy east and west coasters aren’t in fraternities. We’re wealthy, but many of his friends were even more so: NYC penthouses, $7M Palo Alto house, kids with multi-homes, and on. We know St. Albans kids in fraternities. Please.

[Anonymous]

Look, if there’s one thing that the DMV has an over abundance of, it’s strivers. There is nowhere where that is more obvious than DCUM. You have to live in the right neighborhood, you have to have the right job, you have to make the right amount of money, you have to go to the right private high school, you have to go to the right prestigious college, etc. But if you don’t do that or can’t achieve it you rip apart those who do or can.

Same thing applies with going Greek. So many people would give their right arm to have their kid get into what is perceived as a top house — and, trust me, if they could do it, they wouldn’t stop talking about it — but knowing they dedicate the entire system. It’s because of the striver in them. The feeling that they just can’t hang. I’m telling you, that’s what it is. In other words, yes, they’re jealous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew is in a frat at UW. There is a lot of forced binge drinking and getting blackout drunk pretty regularly, which he'd never done before. That gives me pause.

Uh huh. I’m sure he shares that with his Auntie.

Bullshit.

He shared it with his cousin (my son) not me. My son and I are close and we were discussing the topic of frats and he shared what his cousin told him. They are very close too. My son's cousin is like a big brother to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS was rush chair and president at T25, so after bids went out he’d always have to talk to reluctant parents. After one conversation, the student sent a heartfelt text to DS saying that his parents still weren’t on board but that he was grateful that the past 2.5 weeks made him realize that someday he’d find a group because he didn’t have any friends in HS, and thanked DS for being so kind. DS is a softie so that one got him.

Those are the kind of parents who are anti-fraternity but shouldn’t be.

Also, pps are FOS that wealthy east and west coasters aren’t in fraternities. We’re wealthy, but many of his friends were even more so: NYC penthouses, $7M Palo Alto house, kids with multi-homes, and on. We know St. Albans kids in fraternities. Please.

Seriously, what Frat/Sorority is contacting parents?!?!?! These students are all adults.

[Anonymous]

I typed too fast. I meant to say “knowing that they can’t, they denigrate the entire system.“

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew is in a frat at UW. There is a lot of forced binge drinking and getting blackout drunk pretty regularly, which he'd never done before. That gives me pause.

Uh huh. I’m sure he shares that with his Auntie.

Bullshit.

He shared it with his cousin (my son) not me. My son and I are close and we were discussing the topic of frats and he shared what his cousin told him. They are very close too. My son's cousin is like a big brother to him.

I’m sure your nephew would love knowing that what he shares with his cousin he shares with him mommy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew is in a frat at UW. There is a lot of forced binge drinking and getting blackout drunk pretty regularly, which he'd never done before. That gives me pause.

Uh huh. I’m sure he shares that with his Auntie.

Bullshit.

You think that’s irregular/sounds made up? DS has been forced to drink in college for literal Model UN, this is-sadly-really common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew is in a frat at UW. There is a lot of forced binge drinking and getting blackout drunk pretty regularly, which he'd never done before. That gives me pause.

Uh huh. I’m sure he shares that with his Auntie.

Bullshit.

He shared it with his cousin (my son) not me. My son and I are close and we were discussing the topic of frats and he shared what his cousin told him. They are very close too. My son's cousin is like a big brother to him.

I’m sure your nephew would love knowing that what he shares with his cousin he shares with him mommy.

Not really relevant to the thread, is it? Unless deflection is your game.

[Anonymous]

The only people here who sound triggered are the Greek boosters. The people who are passing on it - even when the parents were in houses themselves - sound pretty rational.

It really is okay for other people to have other opinions. It won't stop your kid from joining a frat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, if there’s one thing that the DMV has an over abundance of, it’s strivers. There is nowhere where that is more obvious than DCUM. You have to live in the right neighborhood, you have to have the right job, you have to make the right amount of money, you have to go to the right private high school, you have to go to the right prestigious college, etc. But if you don’t do that or can’t achieve it you rip apart those who do or can.

Same thing applies with going Greek. So many people would give their right arm to have their kid get into what is perceived as a top house — and, trust me, if they could do it, they wouldn’t stop talking about it — but knowing they dedicate the entire system. It’s because of the striver in them. The feeling that they just can’t hang. I’m telling you, that’s what it is. In other words, yes, they’re jealous.

So you’re a striver too? “Top house” and all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only people here who sound triggered are the Greek boosters. The people who are passing on it - even when the parents were in houses themselves - sound pretty rational.

It really is okay for other people to have other opinions. It won't stop your kid from joining a frat

Yeah, this is what I’m reading too. I’m personally most interested the perspectives of people who experienced Greek life (each being n=1, of course, within a system that offers a wide range of experiences), and today reflect on their experience with a different perspective.

I can see that Greek life can offer something appealing and meaningful to young people, especially in a fractured world where isolation is more the norm than it used to be. If either of my kids had wanted to rush, I’d be open. I’d have a serious talk about costs and social pressures, but I’d be open. But one chose a school without Greek life, the other seems totally uninterested in rushing and didn’t even go to the Greek fair. I guess I feel about Greek life the way I feel about cruise vacations or golf or gaming: glad you like it, I can intellectually see why it might appeal, I can hold those potential upsides with what people are saying about potential downsides, but in the end I never felt the pull myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any mention of going Greek on this forum is always a trigger. Why is that? Why do people care so much? I mean, if it's not your thing, great, but why judge so harshly when somebody else does it?

Honestly, for me I see it as one of the last vestiges of white social exclusion along with country clubs.

I can get into most country clubs but a few still won't take me because I am not white. I think there is something similar with fraternities/sororities.
These are institutions that make it easy to be racist and they frequently attract students that are racist, indifferent to racism, or at least tolerant of racism.
So when you say "didn't get a bid hunh?" it sounds like racists rubbing it in.

I have a niece, objectively gorgeous and she wanted to join a sorority and it was no big deal because she was going to a northeastern school where the greek system has integrated.
But I know a kid that went to Duke and he is extremely athletic, smart, confident and popular and he ended up transferring to Chicago or all places to get the F out of there after his experience with the greek system. He was expected to accept a certain level or racism as playful, but the racism only went one way. This is not to single out Dule, I expect this is true at a lot of schools.

Yea, well, Duke will be Duke.

The Greek system is off campus and “unofficial” at Duke, which is mostly a good thing because it’s even smaller than it used to be, but also a negative because the school no longer has oversight or control.

It’s possible that though Greek life at Duke is now smaller, it’s more awful and obnoxious than it used to be? It’s also possible that was a terrible fraternity group and others are different?

Even when I was there in the 1990s, there were a range of personalities and types. Lots of good guys but also a few frats we avoided like the plague. I kind of liked that, because a lot of the jerks flocked together and were therefore easier to avoid! 😂

Wondering if it’s similar there now? Anyone with kids currently at Duke who could share some insight on the role of Greek life there right now?