Do you think it's okay to criticize the behavior of a kid who is not yours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I viewed using the word "a**hole" as a description of the child's behavior. It's "a**hole" behavior. So yes, I was criticizing the child's behavior.

Also my friend's lecture focused on the idea that it's unfair for me to be so negative about this kid because of her age, like she's not responsible for her behavior because she's so young. So I was responding to what my friend said. Others in the thread have argued the same thing, that by calling her an a**hole I wasn't leaving space for her to evolve as a person or something.

Just clarifying.

You 100% did not describe her behavior. This is precisely what you wrote that you said in your first post:

Yeah, I'm looking forward to middle because it will be nice to get away from this little ***hole

That’s not remotely describing her behavior. That is calling a child by a pejorative name.

So, yes, you outright lied in your title. You are now trying to wiggle out of it, because of course it is appalling for adults to call children names, but we have your own words here.

I absolutely called the kid a name. But yes it was based on behavior, you are skipping over an entire paragraph where I describe the kid's behavior as I also described it to my friend before calling her a "little a**hole."

It's not like I met a kid and decided immediately that she was an a**hole. Nor did I just randomly announce to my friend that the kid is an a**hole with no context. It was how I summarized the kid's personality based on lots of experience.

Name-calling children like this is not defensible, OP. Come on. Were you taught any manners growing up?

it’s not just the name calling - it’s holding the kid to some kind of adult-like ideal that is really the tell that OP is a splitter and grievance monger. Lines like this: “ she's also not making much effort to be kind or open-minded and she really relishes winning, which she does a lot.” I mean … the kid is *10*. This sounds wholly like OP is way to fixated on a kid who is just doing normal kid stuff in an effort to assauge anxiety about her own kid.

You are probably right. OP does sound unhealthily fixated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I viewed using the word "a**hole" as a description of the child's behavior. It's "a**hole" behavior. So yes, I was criticizing the child's behavior.

Also my friend's lecture focused on the idea that it's unfair for me to be so negative about this kid because of her age, like she's not responsible for her behavior because she's so young. So I was responding to what my friend said. Others in the thread have argued the same thing, that by calling her an a**hole I wasn't leaving space for her to evolve as a person or something.

Just clarifying.

You 100% did not describe her behavior. This is precisely what you wrote that you said in your first post:

Yeah, I'm looking forward to middle because it will be nice to get away from this little ***hole

That’s not remotely describing her behavior. That is calling a child by a pejorative name.

So, yes, you outright lied in your title. You are now trying to wiggle out of it, because of course it is appalling for adults to call children names, but we have your own words here.

OP has shown pretty consistently that she does not understand, for whatever reason, why it’s not OK to call a kid an a**hole. So one would not reasonably expect her post title to call this out. There was no lie. It’s actually kind of the point of the discussion and why many of us (and OP’s friend) are calling out OP for her behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.

[Anonymous]

I think I would spend less time with this friend. She's not a friend she pressed you for information and then when you shared she lectured you. I bet if you review your relationship with her this is a repeated pattern. Cut her loose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think I would spend less time with this friend. She's not a friend she pressed you for information and then when you shared she lectured you. I bet if you review your relationship with her this is a repeated pattern. Cut her loose.

The friend just literally asked how her daughter was doing, and OP just had to bring up the problems with this other girl, even though OP says her daughter otherwise does well in school and is well-liked. And when the friend merely asked what problems, which she was pretty much baited to ask, OP responded with a super long rant culminating in calling the little girl an a-hole. And then OP decided to post a lengthy post about it here and continue to argue that it was fine to do this and that people are weird to have a problem with it. That's... a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I would spend less time with this friend. She's not a friend she pressed you for information and then when you shared she lectured you. I bet if you review your relationship with her this is a repeated pattern. Cut her loose.

The friend just literally asked how her daughter was doing, and OP just had to bring up the problems with this other girl, even though OP says her daughter otherwise does well in school and is well-liked. And when the friend merely asked what problems, which she was pretty much baited to ask, OP responded with a super long rant culminating in calling the little girl an a-hole. And then OP decided to post a lengthy post about it here and continue to argue that it was fine to do this and that people are weird to have a problem with it. That's... a lot.

All true, but I suspect this friend would be quite happy to be cut loose from OP. Win-win, except for any other poor kids OP gets fixated on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I would spend less time with this friend. She's not a friend she pressed you for information and then when you shared she lectured you. I bet if you review your relationship with her this is a repeated pattern. Cut her loose.

The friend just literally asked how her daughter was doing, and OP just had to bring up the problems with this other girl, even though OP says her daughter otherwise does well in school and is well-liked. And when the friend merely asked what problems, which she was pretty much baited to ask, OP responded with a super long rant culminating in calling the little girl an a-hole. And then OP decided to post a lengthy post about it here and continue to argue that it was fine to do this and that people are weird to have a problem with it. That's... a lot.

All true, but I suspect this friend would be quite happy to be cut loose from OP. Win-win, except for any other poor kids OP gets fixated on.

I just reread and the OP and she said she "hemmed and hawwed" before answering... I'm laughing at how badly OP was dying to have a chance to bring up all the things she hates about this kid without making it seem too obvious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I would spend less time with this friend. She's not a friend she pressed you for information and then when you shared she lectured you. I bet if you review your relationship with her this is a repeated pattern. Cut her loose.

The friend just literally asked how her daughter was doing, and OP just had to bring up the problems with this other girl, even though OP says her daughter otherwise does well in school and is well-liked. And when the friend merely asked what problems, which she was pretty much baited to ask, OP responded with a super long rant culminating in calling the little girl an a-hole. And then OP decided to post a lengthy post about it here and continue to argue that it was fine to do this and that people are weird to have a problem with it. That's... a lot.

All true, but I suspect this friend would be quite happy to be cut loose from OP. Win-win, except for any other poor kids OP gets fixated on.

Yes, would be so much easier to cut off a friendship and avoid someone in your social circle than to say “yikes, you’re right that may have gone too far!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I would spend less time with this friend. She's not a friend she pressed you for information and then when you shared she lectured you. I bet if you review your relationship with her this is a repeated pattern. Cut her loose.

The friend just literally asked how her daughter was doing, and OP just had to bring up the problems with this other girl, even though OP says her daughter otherwise does well in school and is well-liked. And when the friend merely asked what problems, which she was pretty much baited to ask, OP responded with a super long rant culminating in calling the little girl an a-hole. And then OP decided to post a lengthy post about it here and continue to argue that it was fine to do this and that people are weird to have a problem with it. That's... a lot.

All true, but I suspect this friend would be quite happy to be cut loose from OP. Win-win, except for any other poor kids OP gets fixated on.

Yes, would be so much easier to cut off a friendship and avoid someone in your social circle than to say “yikes, you’re right that may have gone too far!”

It’s not at all clear OP has the capacity to do what you suggest, based on her posts in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I would spend less time with this friend. She's not a friend she pressed you for information and then when you shared she lectured you. I bet if you review your relationship with her this is a repeated pattern. Cut her loose.

The friend just literally asked how her daughter was doing, and OP just had to bring up the problems with this other girl, even though OP says her daughter otherwise does well in school and is well-liked. And when the friend merely asked what problems, which she was pretty much baited to ask, OP responded with a super long rant culminating in calling the little girl an a-hole. And then OP decided to post a lengthy post about it here and continue to argue that it was fine to do this and that people are weird to have a problem with it. That's... a lot.

All true, but I suspect this friend would be quite happy to be cut loose from OP. Win-win, except for any other poor kids OP gets fixated on.

I just reread and the OP and she said she "hemmed and hawwed" before answering... I'm laughing at how badly OP was dying to have a chance to bring up all the things she hates about this kid without making it seem too obvious.

I wonder if the friend baited her so she could have a pretext to tell OP to knock it off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.

So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.

So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?

Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I would spend less time with this friend. She's not a friend she pressed you for information and then when you shared she lectured you. I bet if you review your relationship with her this is a repeated pattern. Cut her loose.

The friend just literally asked how her daughter was doing, and OP just had to bring up the problems with this other girl, even though OP says her daughter otherwise does well in school and is well-liked. And when the friend merely asked what problems, which she was pretty much baited to ask, OP responded with a super long rant culminating in calling the little girl an a-hole. And then OP decided to post a lengthy post about it here and continue to argue that it was fine to do this and that people are weird to have a problem with it. That's... a lot.

All true, but I suspect this friend would be quite happy to be cut loose from OP. Win-win, except for any other poor kids OP gets fixated on.

I just reread and the OP and she said she "hemmed and hawwed" before answering... I'm laughing at how badly OP was dying to have a chance to bring up all the things she hates about this kid without making it seem too obvious.

I wonder if the friend baited her so she could have a pretext to tell OP to knock it off.

The friend merely asked how her daughter was doing. That couldn't possibly be baiting her to rant about another kid, unless of course OP does that all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.

So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?

Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.

NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.