Do you think it's okay to criticize the behavior of a kid who is not yours?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.

So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?

Do you actually not get this? Most healthy adults don’t declare that any child “sucks.” There was a girl in my DS’s class that kept on instigating fights and then would complain about him to the teachers. Teeny tiny little thing but ferocious. I once sort of rolled my eyes about her to another mom and that mom told me a lot about the girls’ family I had not know about. She didn’t move on to the zoned MS and now I worry about her.

Kids are people. They have the same range of good or bad that adults have. Most are fine, some are very good people, some are jerks, a small minority are monsters who kill or rape or torment. Some of that comes from trauma but that's as true of adults. It's not unhealthy to acknowledge that.

Kids are *children* not little adults. What is wrong with you? Do you think a toddler that grabs a toy is a selfish sociopath?

And despite what you think, the vast majority of adults are not going around making judgments about other children like that. If you decide that in your mission to enforce good behavior you need to call out all the 10 year old jerks to other adults, you are going to get the side eye, like OP did. So live you values and accept that other adults will judge you as the jerk in this scenario.

A toddler is not a fourth grader and grabbing a toy isn't sociopathy, so obviously I wouldn't say that. That doesn't mean there aren't fourth graders who are monsters. I've known them. A kid, probably around that age, used to take me out into the woods and then throw rocks at me. I still have a scar between my eyes. Once he lured me into his room and repeatedly sodomized me with his fingers. He was the only kid on my block, though, and I didn't have many friends, so we still played together.

That's my perspective. I've seen too much of the range of evil that exists in children to pretend like it doesn't exist.

maybe you need to work through your own trauma before you start commenting because you are projecting massively.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.

So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?

Do you actually not get this? Most healthy adults don’t declare that any child “sucks.” There was a girl in my DS’s class that kept on instigating fights and then would complain about him to the teachers. Teeny tiny little thing but ferocious. I once sort of rolled my eyes about her to another mom and that mom told me a lot about the girls’ family I had not know about. She didn’t move on to the zoned MS and now I worry about her.

Kids are people. They have the same range of good or bad that adults have. Most are fine, some are very good people, some are jerks, a small minority are monsters who kill or rape or torment. Some of that comes from trauma but that's as true of adults. It's not unhealthy to acknowledge that.

Kids are *children* not little adults. What is wrong with you? Do you think a toddler that grabs a toy is a selfish sociopath?

And despite what you think, the vast majority of adults are not going around making judgments about other children like that. If you decide that in your mission to enforce good behavior you need to call out all the 10 year old jerks to other adults, you are going to get the side eye, like OP did. So live you values and accept that other adults will judge you as the jerk in this scenario.

A toddler is not a fourth grader and grabbing a toy isn't sociopathy, so obviously I wouldn't say that. That doesn't mean there aren't fourth graders who are monsters. I've known them. A kid, probably around that age, used to take me out into the woods and then throw rocks at me. I still have a scar between my eyes. Once he lured me into his room and repeatedly sodomized me with his fingers. He was the only kid on my block, though, and I didn't have many friends, so we still played together.

That's my perspective. I've seen too much of the range of evil that exists in children to pretend like it doesn't exist.

maybe you need to work through your own trauma before you start commenting because you are projecting massively.

I'm not saying this kid is like that. I'm saying that children are people with the same capacity for good and evil as the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.

So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?

Do you actually not get this? Most healthy adults don’t declare that any child “sucks.” There was a girl in my DS’s class that kept on instigating fights and then would complain about him to the teachers. Teeny tiny little thing but ferocious. I once sort of rolled my eyes about her to another mom and that mom told me a lot about the girls’ family I had not know about. She didn’t move on to the zoned MS and now I worry about her.

Kids are people. They have the same range of good or bad that adults have. Most are fine, some are very good people, some are jerks, a small minority are monsters who kill or rape or torment. Some of that comes from trauma but that's as true of adults. It's not unhealthy to acknowledge that.

Kids are *children* not little adults. What is wrong with you? Do you think a toddler that grabs a toy is a selfish sociopath?

And despite what you think, the vast majority of adults are not going around making judgments about other children like that. If you decide that in your mission to enforce good behavior you need to call out all the 10 year old jerks to other adults, you are going to get the side eye, like OP did. So live you values and accept that other adults will judge you as the jerk in this scenario.

A toddler is not a fourth grader and grabbing a toy isn't sociopathy, so obviously I wouldn't say that. That doesn't mean there aren't fourth graders who are monsters. I've known them. A kid, probably around that age, used to take me out into the woods and then throw rocks at me. I still have a scar between my eyes. Once he lured me into his room and repeatedly sodomized me with his fingers. He was the only kid on my block, though, and I didn't have many friends, so we still played together.

That's my perspective. I've seen too much of the range of evil that exists in children to pretend like it doesn't exist.

maybe you need to work through your own trauma before you start commenting because you are projecting massively.

I'm not saying this kid is like that. I'm saying that children are people with the same capacity for good and evil as the rest of us.

and I am saying that children are not the same as adults.

[Anonymous]

Alot of kids are a$$h.les. You're fine. Fwiw your friend is also an ahole

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Alot of kids are a$$h.les. You're fine. Fwiw your friend is also an ahole

Everyone is an a-hole except OP and her child, who are perfect.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.

So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?

Do you actually not get this? Most healthy adults don’t declare that any child “sucks.” There was a girl in my DS’s class that kept on instigating fights and then would complain about him to the teachers. Teeny tiny little thing but ferocious. I once sort of rolled my eyes about her to another mom and that mom told me a lot about the girls’ family I had not know about. She didn’t move on to the zoned MS and now I worry about her.

Kids are people. They have the same range of good or bad that adults have. Most are fine, some are very good people, some are jerks, a small minority are monsters who kill or rape or torment. Some of that comes from trauma but that's as true of adults. It's not unhealthy to acknowledge that.

Kids are *children* not little adults. What is wrong with you? Do you think a toddler that grabs a toy is a selfish sociopath?

And despite what you think, the vast majority of adults are not going around making judgments about other children like that. If you decide that in your mission to enforce good behavior you need to call out all the 10 year old jerks to other adults, you are going to get the side eye, like OP did. So live you values and accept that other adults will judge you as the jerk in this scenario.

A toddler is not a fourth grader and grabbing a toy isn't sociopathy, so obviously I wouldn't say that. That doesn't mean there aren't fourth graders who are monsters. I've known them. A kid, probably around that age, used to take me out into the woods and then throw rocks at me. I still have a scar between my eyes. Once he lured me into his room and repeatedly sodomized me with his fingers. He was the only kid on my block, though, and I didn't have many friends, so we still played together.

That's my perspective. I've seen too much of the range of evil that exists in children to pretend like it doesn't exist.

I’m one of the PPs appalled by OPs behavior and the people defending her. I was also a child viciously sexually assaulted by another child, and the child who assaulted me later became a convicted criminal. Having significant childhood adverse experiences does not excuse behavior like OPs.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.

So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?

Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.

NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.

based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird.

I'm not even talking about this girl anymore. Whatever. But, in general, the fact that you completely missed what I was getting at depresses me. I want the rough-around-the-edges kids -- the ones that stick out by upper ES (and most of us have experienced such kids) -- to turn out to not be actual ***holes. How will a child struggling with these negative behaviors grow out of them if there are not negative consequences for them? Like, really, what do you suggest?

Nobody said that kids should go unchecked. The topic here is deciding that a kid is a “jerk” based on extremely incomplete and biased evidence. Does gossiping and name calling by adults do anything to help children?

I have never, in many years of parenting (my kids are now older teens and young adults), seen a situation where adults gossiping and name-calling about a child has ever helped either the child targeted by the adults or other children.

I have two older kids as well. In my experience you can't tell in the slightest by the time the kids are in high school who was the rambunctious kindergartner that couldn't share, said unkind-ish things, etc. But the kids in 4th grade who stuck out for mean behavior -- things such as taunting kids who needed reading tutoring, like OP described -- absolutely always remained mean all throughout high school. So, based on my actual lived experiences, I do think that the behaviors you exhibit at age 10 are indicative of who you ARE as a person. A small minority of 4th graders are mean people.

And if that had happened to my DD, and I told a friend about the incident, including something like "a mean girl in the class taunted DD", I would not be gossiping. I would be talking about an actual experienced that happened to my DD.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.

+1

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.

So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?

Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.

NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.

based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird.

I'm not even talking about this girl anymore. Whatever. But, in general, the fact that you completely missed what I was getting at depresses me. I want the rough-around-the-edges kids -- the ones that stick out by upper ES (and most of us have experienced such kids) -- to turn out to not be actual ***holes. How will a child struggling with these negative behaviors grow out of them if there are not negative consequences for them? Like, really, what do you suggest?

Nobody said that kids should go unchecked. The topic here is deciding that a kid is a “jerk” based on extremely incomplete and biased evidence. Does gossiping and name calling by adults do anything to help children?

I have never, in many years of parenting (my kids are now older teens and young adults), seen a situation where adults gossiping and name-calling about a child has ever helped either the child targeted by the adults or other children.

I have two older kids as well. In my experience you can't tell in the slightest by the time the kids are in high school who was the rambunctious kindergartner that couldn't share, said unkind-ish things, etc. But the kids in 4th grade who stuck out for mean behavior -- things such as taunting kids who needed reading tutoring, like OP described -- absolutely always remained mean all throughout high school. So, based on my actual lived experiences, I do think that the behaviors you exhibit at age 10 are indicative of who you ARE as a person. A small minority of 4th graders are mean people.

And if that had happened to my DD, and I told a friend about the incident, including something like "a mean girl in the class taunted DD", I would not be gossiping. I would be talking about an actual experienced that happened to my DD.

As someone who has worked with kids for years, I flat-out don’t believe this. It is true for some, but not most and certainly not all. And from what you wrote, I strongly suspect you were entirely blind to the mean behaviors of your own fourth graders.

What a grotesque world outlook, also. You truly believe ten-year-olds are incapable of growth? You think a ten-year-old is doomed forever, cast in a permanent shape before they even get to fifth grade? God, what a truly awful way to live life. I’m just thankful I have the life experience to know you are deeply misguided, but your post is unintentionally heartbreaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would guess that your friend is friendly with that mom?
There is a kid who is a bit obnoxious and his mom is standoff ish and I hear parents complaining about that kid constantly. But another kid who is even worse gets off with "spirited" because his mom is popular. People will say "Dave and Mary are the most amazing people. It's a shame their kids are so rude." As if the parents had nothing to do with it.

OP here and no, my friend doesn't have kids at this school and has never met these people. She just objects to me calling this kid an ***hole.

I object, too.

My personal rule is that it's okay to describe behaviors but not okay to label people, particularly kids. We never know the full story.

I think it would be fine for you to vent to your friend who is unconnected to the school community about those behaviors you mentioned. Maybe even solicit ideas on how you can help support her. But calling a kid names just makes you look unthoughtful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would guess that your friend is friendly with that mom?
There is a kid who is a bit obnoxious and his mom is standoff ish and I hear parents complaining about that kid constantly. But another kid who is even worse gets off with "spirited" because his mom is popular. People will say "Dave and Mary are the most amazing people. It's a shame their kids are so rude." As if the parents had nothing to do with it.

OP here and no, my friend doesn't have kids at this school and has never met these people. She just objects to me calling this kid an ***hole.

I object, too.

My personal rule is that it's okay to describe behaviors but not okay to label people, particularly kids. We never know the full story.

I think it would be fine for you to vent to your friend who is unconnected to the school community about those behaviors you mentioned. Maybe even solicit ideas on how you can help support her. But calling a kid names just makes you look unthoughtful.

I mean, who cares? Do people need to be "thoughtful" 100% of the time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would guess that your friend is friendly with that mom?
There is a kid who is a bit obnoxious and his mom is standoff ish and I hear parents complaining about that kid constantly. But another kid who is even worse gets off with "spirited" because his mom is popular. People will say "Dave and Mary are the most amazing people. It's a shame their kids are so rude." As if the parents had nothing to do with it.

OP here and no, my friend doesn't have kids at this school and has never met these people. She just objects to me calling this kid an ***hole.

I object, too.

My personal rule is that it's okay to describe behaviors but not okay to label people, particularly kids. We never know the full story.

I think it would be fine for you to vent to your friend who is unconnected to the school community about those behaviors you mentioned. Maybe even solicit ideas on how you can help support her. But calling a kid names just makes you look unthoughtful.

I mean, who cares? Do people need to be "thoughtful" 100% of the time?

OP came to DCUM for validation of her behavior, so she clearly cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would guess that your friend is friendly with that mom?
There is a kid who is a bit obnoxious and his mom is standoff ish and I hear parents complaining about that kid constantly. But another kid who is even worse gets off with "spirited" because his mom is popular. People will say "Dave and Mary are the most amazing people. It's a shame their kids are so rude." As if the parents had nothing to do with it.

OP here and no, my friend doesn't have kids at this school and has never met these people. She just objects to me calling this kid an ***hole.

I object, too.

My personal rule is that it's okay to describe behaviors but not okay to label people, particularly kids. We never know the full story.

I think it would be fine for you to vent to your friend who is unconnected to the school community about those behaviors you mentioned. Maybe even solicit ideas on how you can help support her. But calling a kid names just makes you look unthoughtful.

I mean, who cares? Do people need to be "thoughtful" 100% of the time?

Well per OP, a 10 year old who is not “kind” and “open minded” is an a-hole …. So by her standards, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would guess that your friend is friendly with that mom?
There is a kid who is a bit obnoxious and his mom is standoff ish and I hear parents complaining about that kid constantly. But another kid who is even worse gets off with "spirited" because his mom is popular. People will say "Dave and Mary are the most amazing people. It's a shame their kids are so rude." As if the parents had nothing to do with it.

OP here and no, my friend doesn't have kids at this school and has never met these people. She just objects to me calling this kid an ***hole.

I object, too.

My personal rule is that it's okay to describe behaviors but not okay to label people, particularly kids. We never know the full story.

I think it would be fine for you to vent to your friend who is unconnected to the school community about those behaviors you mentioned. Maybe even solicit ideas on how you can help support her. But calling a kid names just makes you look unthoughtful.

I mean, who cares? Do people need to be "thoughtful" 100% of the time?

OP came to DCUM for validation of her behavior, so she clearly cares.

Yeah that’s what gets me. OP can dish it out but not take it. She thinks she can call a child names but then clutches her pearls when she is called out for her own abberant behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would guess that your friend is friendly with that mom?
There is a kid who is a bit obnoxious and his mom is standoff ish and I hear parents complaining about that kid constantly. But another kid who is even worse gets off with "spirited" because his mom is popular. People will say "Dave and Mary are the most amazing people. It's a shame their kids are so rude." As if the parents had nothing to do with it.

OP here and no, my friend doesn't have kids at this school and has never met these people. She just objects to me calling this kid an ***hole.

I object, too.

My personal rule is that it's okay to describe behaviors but not okay to label people, particularly kids. We never know the full story.

I think it would be fine for you to vent to your friend who is unconnected to the school community about those behaviors you mentioned. Maybe even solicit ideas on how you can help support her. But calling a kid names just makes you look unthoughtful.

I mean, who cares? Do people need to be "thoughtful" 100% of the time?

Well per OP, a 10 year old who is not “kind” and “open minded” is an a-hole …. So by her standards, yes.

Seriously!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would guess that your friend is friendly with that mom?
There is a kid who is a bit obnoxious and his mom is standoff ish and I hear parents complaining about that kid constantly. But another kid who is even worse gets off with "spirited" because his mom is popular. People will say "Dave and Mary are the most amazing people. It's a shame their kids are so rude." As if the parents had nothing to do with it.

OP here and no, my friend doesn't have kids at this school and has never met these people. She just objects to me calling this kid an ***hole.

I object, too.

My personal rule is that it's okay to describe behaviors but not okay to label people, particularly kids. We never know the full story.

I think it would be fine for you to vent to your friend who is unconnected to the school community about those behaviors you mentioned. Maybe even solicit ideas on how you can help support her. But calling a kid names just makes you look unthoughtful.

I mean, who cares? Do people need to be "thoughtful" 100% of the time?

OP came to DCUM for validation of her behavior, so she clearly cares.

Yeah that’s what gets me. OP can dish it out but not take it. She thinks she can call a child names but then clutches her pearls when she is called out for her own abberant behavior.

+1

Though I think OP is a troll. I hope so, at least. In any event she disappeared when the suspiciously supportive posts died out.