Do you think it's okay to criticize the behavior of a kid who is not yours?

Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Do you actually not get this? Most healthy adults don’t declare that any child “sucks.” There was a girl in my DS’s class that kept on instigating fights and then would complain about him to the teachers. Teeny tiny little thing but ferocious. I once sort of rolled my eyes about her to another mom and that mom told me a lot about the girls’ family I had not know about. She didn’t move on to the zoned MS and now I worry about her.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.


NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.


based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Do you actually not get this? Most healthy adults don’t declare that any child “sucks.” There was a girl in my DS’s class that kept on instigating fights and then would complain about him to the teachers. Teeny tiny little thing but ferocious. I once sort of rolled my eyes about her to another mom and that mom told me a lot about the girls’ family I had not know about. She didn’t move on to the zoned MS and now I worry about her.


You labeled a child "ferocious" and then gossiped about her family life with another mom? Gross.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Do you actually not get this? Most healthy adults don’t declare that any child “sucks.” There was a girl in my DS’s class that kept on instigating fights and then would complain about him to the teachers. Teeny tiny little thing but ferocious. I once sort of rolled my eyes about her to another mom and that mom told me a lot about the girls’ family I had not know about. She didn’t move on to the zoned MS and now I worry about her.


You labeled a child "ferocious" and then gossiped about her family life with another mom? Gross.


Ferocious was actually a compliment in context (like “spitfire.”) The girl was a fighter due to trauma. And the point of my anecdote was that I learned not to judge other kids because you never know the whole story. That was probably the only time I had ever done that and the other mom was a good role model for me.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.


NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.


based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird.


I'm not even talking about this girl anymore. Whatever. But, in general, the fact that you completely missed what I was getting at depresses me. I want the rough-around-the-edges kids -- the ones that stick out by upper ES (and most of us have experienced such kids) -- to turn out to not be actual ***holes. How will a child struggling with these negative behaviors grow out of them if there are not negative consequences for them? Like, really, what do you suggest?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.


NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.


based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird.


+1

I’ve always wondered how adults turn into the kind of adults who get arrested for targeting their child’s classmates and this depressing thread has given me new insight. People like OP and her defenders dehumanize children they don’t like, and it does not take a lot for them to cross over some very bright and horrifying lines.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.


NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.


based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird.


I'm not even talking about this girl anymore. Whatever. But, in general, the fact that you completely missed what I was getting at depresses me. I want the rough-around-the-edges kids -- the ones that stick out by upper ES (and most of us have experienced such kids) -- to turn out to not be actual ***holes. How will a child struggling with these negative behaviors grow out of them if there are not negative consequences for them? Like, really, what do you suggest?


Nobody said that kids should go unchecked. The topic here is deciding that a kid is a “jerk” based on extremely incomplete and biased evidence. Does gossiping and name calling by adults do anything to help children?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.


NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.


based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird.


I'm not even talking about this girl anymore. Whatever. But, in general, the fact that you completely missed what I was getting at depresses me. I want the rough-around-the-edges kids -- the ones that stick out by upper ES (and most of us have experienced such kids) -- to turn out to not be actual ***holes. How will a child struggling with these negative behaviors grow out of them if there are not negative consequences for them? Like, really, what do you suggest?


Nobody said that kids should go unchecked. The topic here is deciding that a kid is a “jerk” based on extremely incomplete and biased evidence. Does gossiping and name calling by adults do anything to help children?


That was the original topic, but it evolved into a depressing discussion in which several suggested that no one can label bad behavior, which is usually the first and necessary step to checking it.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.


NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.


😳😳😳

What sort of crazy retributionist John Wick fantasy life are you living?? This is some wild stuff.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Do you actually not get this? Most healthy adults don’t declare that any child “sucks.” There was a girl in my DS’s class that kept on instigating fights and then would complain about him to the teachers. Teeny tiny little thing but ferocious. I once sort of rolled my eyes about her to another mom and that mom told me a lot about the girls’ family I had not know about. She didn’t move on to the zoned MS and now I worry about her.


Kids are people. They have the same range of good or bad that adults have. Most are fine, some are very good people, some are jerks, a small minority are monsters who kill or rape or torment. Some of that comes from trauma but that's as true of adults. It's not unhealthy to acknowledge that.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.


NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.


based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird.


I'm not even talking about this girl anymore. Whatever. But, in general, the fact that you completely missed what I was getting at depresses me. I want the rough-around-the-edges kids -- the ones that stick out by upper ES (and most of us have experienced such kids) -- to turn out to not be actual ***holes. How will a child struggling with these negative behaviors grow out of them if there are not negative consequences for them? Like, really, what do you suggest?


Nobody said that kids should go unchecked. The topic here is deciding that a kid is a “jerk” based on extremely incomplete and biased evidence. Does gossiping and name calling by adults do anything to help children?


I have never, in many years of parenting (my kids are now older teens and young adults), seen a situation where adults gossiping and name-calling about a child has ever helped either the child targeted by the adults or other children.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Do you actually not get this? Most healthy adults don’t declare that any child “sucks.” There was a girl in my DS’s class that kept on instigating fights and then would complain about him to the teachers. Teeny tiny little thing but ferocious. I once sort of rolled my eyes about her to another mom and that mom told me a lot about the girls’ family I had not know about. She didn’t move on to the zoned MS and now I worry about her.


Kids are people. They have the same range of good or bad that adults have. Most are fine, some are very good people, some are jerks, a small minority are monsters who kill or rape or torment. Some of that comes from trauma but that's as true of adults. It's not unhealthy to acknowledge that.


Kids are *children* not little adults. What is wrong with you? Do you think a toddler that grabs a toy is a selfish sociopath?

And despite what you think, the vast majority of adults are not going around making judgments about other children like that. If you decide that in your mission to enforce good behavior you need to call out all the 10 year old jerks to other adults, you are going to get the side eye, like OP did. So live you values and accept that other adults will judge you as the jerk in this scenario.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.


NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.


based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird.


I'm not even talking about this girl anymore. Whatever. But, in general, the fact that you completely missed what I was getting at depresses me. I want the rough-around-the-edges kids -- the ones that stick out by upper ES (and most of us have experienced such kids) -- to turn out to not be actual ***holes. How will a child struggling with these negative behaviors grow out of them if there are not negative consequences for them? Like, really, what do you suggest?


Nobody said that kids should go unchecked. The topic here is deciding that a kid is a “jerk” based on extremely incomplete and biased evidence. Does gossiping and name calling by adults do anything to help children?


I have never, in many years of parenting (my kids are now older teens and young adults), seen a situation where adults gossiping and name-calling about a child has ever helped either the child targeted by the adults or other children.


+1. I wrote the anecdote about the little girl with trauma above. It was natural and probably helpful that the parents were talking to each other and trying to understand what was going in (because it was that era of post-COVID behavioral chaos in school and all the kids were being impacted in one way or another) but gossiping/judgment was not helping anyone.
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Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Do you actually not get this? Most healthy adults don’t declare that any child “sucks.” There was a girl in my DS’s class that kept on instigating fights and then would complain about him to the teachers. Teeny tiny little thing but ferocious. I once sort of rolled my eyes about her to another mom and that mom told me a lot about the girls’ family I had not know about. She didn’t move on to the zoned MS and now I worry about her.


Kids are people. They have the same range of good or bad that adults have. Most are fine, some are very good people, some are jerks, a small minority are monsters who kill or rape or torment. Some of that comes from trauma but that's as true of adults. It's not unhealthy to acknowledge that.


Kids are *children* not little adults. What is wrong with you? Do you think a toddler that grabs a toy is a selfish sociopath?

And despite what you think, the vast majority of adults are not going around making judgments about other children like that. If you decide that in your mission to enforce good behavior you need to call out all the 10 year old jerks to other adults, you are going to get the side eye, like OP did. So live you values and accept that other adults will judge you as the jerk in this scenario.


A toddler is not a fourth grader and grabbing a toy isn't sociopathy, so obviously I wouldn't say that. That doesn't mean there aren't fourth graders who are monsters. I've known them. A kid, probably around that age, used to take me out into the woods and then throw rocks at me. I still have a scar between my eyes. Once he lured me into his room and repeatedly sodomized me with his fingers. He was the only kid on my block, though, and I didn't have many friends, so we still played together.

That's my perspective. I've seen too much of the range of evil that exists in children to pretend like it doesn't exist.
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Anonymous wrote:OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon!


NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away.


My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.


Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances.


+1



Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that. "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.


Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset


I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise.


So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?


Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them.


NP. I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist. They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk. I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her. I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior. Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind? It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.


based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird.


I'm not even talking about this girl anymore. Whatever. But, in general, the fact that you completely missed what I was getting at depresses me. I want the rough-around-the-edges kids -- the ones that stick out by upper ES (and most of us have experienced such kids) -- to turn out to not be actual ***holes. How will a child struggling with these negative behaviors grow out of them if there are not negative consequences for them? Like, really, what do you suggest?


Nobody said that kids should go unchecked. The topic here is deciding that a kid is a “jerk” based on extremely incomplete and biased evidence. Does gossiping and name calling by adults do anything to help children?


That was the original topic, but it evolved into a depressing discussion in which several suggested that no one can label bad behavior, which is usually the first and necessary step to checking it.


That literally did not happen
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