Unexpected parts of becoming a SAHM to small kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your DH is working during the week and studying on weekends to the point you rarely get a break, when does he spend time with the kids?

If a woman did this (work + school) while having young kids she would be skewered for being a selfish mother. Heck, there are women being chastised for wanting to *gasp* drink a beer at a concert without kids.

DP. You are right about the double standard. A mother with the schedule PP described would be considered by many as selfish and not a good parent. I do not agree with that, but it is true what the reaction would be.

You have to live your own lives and figure out what your own priorities are. So what if other people judge you. Seriously, it never once dawned on me to ask anyone else's permission to live my own life the way I lived it. I thought that it was important for dh to get those classes in so together we made that happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Also, he did not take classes during the summer so there was time for him to take the kids to the pool and do things together as a family (including our annual vacation).

Wow your husband took his own kids to the pool! What a coparent!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Also, he did not take classes during the summer so there was time for him to take the kids to the pool and do things together as a family (including our annual vacation).

Wow your husband took his own kids to the pool! What a coparent!

Actually, he was (and is) a really great dad and role model to our kids. He's done it all over the years - timer at swim meets, scout camp outs, field trips, fishing, etc. Oh, and he finished a degree while working full time, supporting his family on one paycheck and putting away money for our retirement and our children's educations. He is truly an awesome guy and I'm proud of him.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]I was a SAHM for 7 years and then went back to work FT. I have friends who are both. The biggest difference to me is that some of my SAHMs obsess over the small things and make themselves anxious. The WOHMs need to prioritize what’s most important. You’d think the WOHMs would be more stressed out but sometimes that’s not the case. And yes, I also used to agonize over small things as a SAHM and while I’m still drawn to certain things, I just have to let them go. I guess being WOH made me more of a realist instead of idealist.[/quote]

PP who did the “experiment” — WOHM, did a month SAH — this resonates with my experience.

At work I have a priority list and try to stay focused throughout the week. My SAHM friend gave me advice to try and do one small thing every day, like make muffins or grocery shop or organize closets. Even with that, though, I found the lack of structure daunting. Days blurred together and time was sort of free floating. My mind turned to fantasy projects around the house but in actuality I was doing the same routine tasks over and over until the week ended and then melted right into the next week. I did feel like I had more downtime and a more relaxed schedule, and out of sheer boredom I did uncharacteristic things like plant a tiny vegetable garden (incidentally, doomed), make jam, sort DC1’s fall wardrobe. But the rest of the time, I found myself paying way too much attention to how tidy the dining room table or the inside of my purse was. My mind was just looking for ways to occupy itself. I also found myself scrutinizing my children more, which was interesting because one of the main reasons I’ve worked is because I feel my mom derived her identity from her children in a way that wasn’t always healthy.

So on the one hand, the slower pace and time to be in the moment was enjoyable. On the other I think the overall setup would suit someone who is a more concrete, each day as it comes type, and also someone who needs constant contact with their kids to feel complete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a WOHM but unexpectedly SAH due to DC medical issue the past month. I was always very curious what it would be like. My job is very flexible and I had basically a year off with each kid to work from home, but I also had help so it wasn’t the full experience.

What surprised me most — 1) the tedium. Constant food preparation became mind numbing, and on top of that the cycle of laundry, tidying, etc. Each task was fine in itself but the feeling of always having another repetitive task to do was not restful. 2) missed my work. I loved the time I had with DC but I also felt like I wasn’t engaging other parts of myself. There was bliss and awe of all the little moments with DC, but if I’m honest, also restlessness and a frustrating lack of stimulation at times. 3) fragmentation of mental space. Especially missed the chance to have thoughts that last longer than a minute or two. My work involves lots of abstract thinking, teaching, research, engaging with art etc. and this was in some ways the polar opposite because I could never get a train of thought longer than 15 seconds. 4) Less patience for both children, because DC1 would come home at the end of a long day and I’d be emotionally spent. Days in general felt much longer. More of a “second shift” feeling once kids went to sleep. 5) identity shift, not in a good way. I felt such relief at the thought that I had another life besides this one, another world. My mind became a lot more anxious at home, somehow, as if it was focused on minutiae only and everything else fell away. I think it takes a certain kind of person to do such intense caretaking and support, day in and day out, and not lose him or herself.

It was a valuable experience, though, and probably cured my itch to do it full time. The grass is always greener.

OP here- this is incredibly helpful. I actually wish I could test drive being a SAH mom like this— part of me thinks I will share this experience, but the other side wonders if it would be more like those who posted earlier saying that after a 10 yr high pressure career, SAH was easy

PP here. So my career has been fairly competitive and high pressure despite the relative flexibility (academia at a top tier research university). I think part of the fantasy of SAH was getting away from that and being in the moment with the kids. At the same time I could not romanticize SAH because my mom did it and it was kind of a grind — she was a brilliant ambitious woman who was also a kickass homemaker and mother, but we could all tell she felt frustrated and undervalued. I tried to go into the experience with an open mind, as who knows that could just be my mom’s personality or issues and it doesn’t need to be me. But now I think I understand more the malaise that I see in many (not all) SAHMs. If you’re educated and not socialized to expect taking up a very domestic role, it’s a huge shift in identity and role.

I did this “experiment” under pretty ideal circumstances — partner was home some of the time, one easy toddler to enjoy. We spent our days literally watching stingrays at the aquarium, feeding chickens, making bread and graham crackers from scratch, checking out tadpoles at the nature center. So I think if I felt that way under those circumstances it’s a good gauge. I also think it’s very different with preschool age kids — they are a lot more restless and you start to get a lot more attitude and defiance and whining as they naturally differentiate their identity.

I did take away some positive things from the experience which I’ll try to incorporate going forward. I liked being physically at home so I will try to work from my home office. I liked having the morning outings and adventures, and now that I’m more senior I will flex my schedule for to do more of that during the week. Finally, I feel more secure in the fact that my bond is the same with my kids if I work or SAH. I’ve always wondered if that would change but honestly it is not. I am glad I had this time with DC2 but I am super close with DC1 and I see that the time on the weekend and after school is sufficient to maintain that bond. Also I see that more time is not necessarily more quality time. Having a babysitter and help around the house does give me more bandwidth to be patient, plan fun activities, and give more emotional attention to both.

Hope this helps OP— I know it’s tough to weigh!

This was really, really helpful for me (not a pp or op but just wanted to say thanks). I woh and feel like I’m a bit in a constant internal fight with myself about whether I want more time at home, whether I’d like it, and if it would be worth it to take a very extended leave with a second child to experiment and everything you said just made a lot of sense to me. Helped me gain a little clarity. So thank you for sharing!

PP — really glad it helped you. The constant internal fight is a real thing... tough to put to rest the nagging voices about whether you are doing the right thing (not right objectively, but for you and your family). I guess we are lucky to have these choices now but the flip side is the lack of inevitability and constant questioning.

[Anonymous]

I went on personal leave when my kids were in elementary for awhile, so not a SAHM officially (though I was when my kids were very little). Here was something unexpected: my conversations with them weren't as deep as when I was working. I was really looking forward to the time off, and I did enjoy it deeply, but that was a surprise. I had more conversation, but it was more shallow. Of course there were lots of benefits too and I don't want to downplay that, but I would consider those expected so not OPs answer.

I guess I remember saving my deep conversation for my WOHD. Maybe a bit of distance was required for deep conversation. I don't know. But that was an unexpected development.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Resentment to DH as stated upthread, but also the resentment towards WOH moms whose kids are in daycare. I'm sorry if I'm not feeling chipper and enthusiastic like you - You are "refreshed" and haven't been with your kids since the moment they work up like a SAHM. So, yea, I am a bit burnt out by the time it is 430pm - my kids have been awake for the last 8+ hours and bedtime isn't for another 4 hours. Those 12 hrs days get long even with screen time mixed in (gasp!), outings/playground/nature center, playdates, etc. 24/7.

Yeah, I'm so refreshed after a long day at work. If working is so easy why don't you just go back?

Ha. Not that pp, but I used to envy the adult conversation that dh had at work, as well as, his ability to focus on something for longer than 3 minutes w/o a baby or toddler interrupting him. I even envied his "alone time" during his commute into work.

I can laugh at it now but, at the time, when simply going to the bathroom all by myself was not easy those were some very real feelings.

Yes!! I cried last week when my husband returned from a business trip (four hours of sweet silence each way on the Acela) and casually showed me video of some dumb Grateful Dead cover band playing in a bar he’d gone to after his meetings. I can’t remember the last time I was at a bar, or saw live music that wasn’t kid-themed, or had a beer without one eyeball following a toddler around the room. I bawled like a crazy person and he didn’t get it. At all.

Like this thread points out there are so many things about my daily SAHM routine that I need to value now. But there are also issues of dignity and basic human needs that are so tough. I don’t poop alone, ever. I rarely get a full shower/blow dry. I have to ask permission and move mountains to go to the doctor. I feel like a servant, a nanny. My marriage has suffered.

I am also so grateful to lay with my kids while they nap, and to see our city through them, and to have found part time work that I’m proud of.

This is pathetic. Stop being a mommy martyr. Hire yourself a babysitter. Have date nights. Go and see live music. Have your hair done. You don’t have to give up your life because you have some kids. Eventually they will be in school. Then what?

It's a stage of life pp. They aren't little forever and you do get your freedom back eventually. Dh & I really didn't need to go out on date nights because once the kids were sleeping through the night we would put them to bed (7pm) and have the rest of the evening together. We made it work.

Flash forward a couple of decades later - dh and I do go bar hopping on occasion, we see live music, we even stay out overnight if we want to. It does get easier. But I still remember what it was like to be in the trenches of parenting small children.

Good job losing your identity!!!

The only people who feel that their identity is wrapped up in which concerts they see or how they consume alcohol are teenagers or adults who wish they were still teenagers.
Go be something, do something, or make something, pp. Stop identifying yourself by your favorite band.

So in your opinion the choices are:

1. Quit any hobbies, no date nights, minimal personal grooming

OR

2. Stay an adolescent identifying yourself by your favorite band??

It’s sad you see motherhood as so black or white. I enjoy my interests, regular date nights, nights out with friends and still spend time and money keeping up my appearance. I also love my children. It’s not either/or.

Becoming 100% about your kids doesn’t make you a better parent!!

You can go to concerts and out to eat when you have the time and the money without it being your entire identity. I don’t feel like I have lost myself if I don’t go to a concert in a while.
And identifying yourself primarily as a wife and mother (whatever that looks like to you) DOES make you a better parent.

You know it's not just about going to a concert every once in awhile. It's about valuing your personal interests outside of being a parent. Obviously you prefer the martyr route and relish the idea of self-sacrifice but I personally enjoy being a mother to a toddler and also a lot of other things in life.

I think you can value your personal interests without them serving as your entire identity. I would feel like I lost myself if my children and spouse left me. I like going rowing, and I missed it the years I had small kids and couldn’t go, but I didn’t feel like I lost myself or my identity. It sounds like you feel the opposite. You like your spouse and your toddler, and you would miss them if they moved away, but you wouldn’t feel like you lost yourself. You would feel like you lost yourself and your identity if you couldn’t go to concerts or drinking with friends.
I don’t consider myself a martyr, just an adult. And I do think you have an adolescent mindset typical of “16 and pregnant “ crowd.

Wow, your worldview is so warped and judgmental. You can mischaracterize me all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Not that pp, but reread what you wrote and what prompted pp's reply to you. You come across as pretty darned judgmental yourself.

I think there were multiple posters. I don't think any of my comments were mean-spirited--I just wanted to point out that we don't have to see ourselves as sacrificing our "freedom" to parent young children. I continue to have personal interests outside of my child that, despite what the previous poster wants to believe, do not involve going to concerts or drinking. Although, more power to the moms who get to go to concerts! I'm just not cool enough.

You still have your own personal interests even after you have kids but unless you are able to drop your kids off with a regular sitter on a regular basis there is going to be a very real limit as to how often you will be free to pursue your own given interests. Sometimes you just plain have to wait until the kids are a bit older. It's not like you have kids and BAM! your whole life is over. But the reality is that little kids need a ton of supervision and unless you have a lot of excess income, you are not going to be able to SAH, AND outsource a lot of your childcare AND afford to go fun adult places and do fun adult things. It's just not practical.

Why do you need to afford childcare to go do fun adult things? Can’t your DH watch the kids once a week and give you a few hours on the weekend to go for a run, meet a girlfriend for brunch, read a book at a coffee shop, etc.? Just because you’re a SAHM doesn’t mean you’re on kid duty 24/7. I work, but even if I stopped working, I’d still expect DH to do his fair share outside of working hours. In dual income families, working parents still put in plenty of time with kids after work. I don’t understand SAHPs who let the working spouse off the hook for helping out just because they have a job. It’s totally possible to have a full time career and take care of the kids and house while your spouse gets a break.

If you are mommy 24/7 and not expecting your partner to give you a break, you’re doing it wrong.

I agree but sadly I’ve never met a household with a SAHM where the woman had an active social life and was as independent as her husband. Maybe this changes as kids get older but doesn’t seem to work this way for most families when kids are younger. Every SAHM I know is 100% about the kids, few interests, is treated like household help by her husband and has a husband who doesn’t do anything in terms of housework.

Well you haven't met me or any of my friends, and we are nothing like the SAHMs you describe.

[Anonymous]

Kids need to feel loved by their parents and extended families. (They know money is no substitute.)

How does a kid feel loved when no family is home all day? And when mom or dad are home, they’re usually caught up in a bazillion ‘more important’ things to do.

Complete strangers are filling the void, in one way or another. Is that what you really want? Is it really worth the glory of being a duel “working” parent scenario?

Good parenting is an actual job, probably the hardest job there is. And most important job, because when it gets messed up, really bad things can happen down the road. Your child is worth your time - lots of it, because that’s what it takes.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Resentment to DH as stated upthread, but also the resentment towards WOH moms whose kids are in daycare. I'm sorry if I'm not feeling chipper and enthusiastic like you - You are "refreshed" and haven't been with your kids since the moment they work up like a SAHM. So, yea, I am a bit burnt out by the time it is 430pm - my kids have been awake for the last 8+ hours and bedtime isn't for another 4 hours. Those 12 hrs days get long even with screen time mixed in (gasp!), outings/playground/nature center, playdates, etc. 24/7.

Yeah, I'm so refreshed after a long day at work. If working is so easy why don't you just go back?

Ha. Not that pp, but I used to envy the adult conversation that dh had at work, as well as, his ability to focus on something for longer than 3 minutes w/o a baby or toddler interrupting him. I even envied his "alone time" during his commute into work.

I can laugh at it now but, at the time, when simply going to the bathroom all by myself was not easy those were some very real feelings.

Yes!! I cried last week when my husband returned from a business trip (four hours of sweet silence each way on the Acela) and casually showed me video of some dumb Grateful Dead cover band playing in a bar he’d gone to after his meetings. I can’t remember the last time I was at a bar, or saw live music that wasn’t kid-themed, or had a beer without one eyeball following a toddler around the room. I bawled like a crazy person and he didn’t get it. At all.

Like this thread points out there are so many things about my daily SAHM routine that I need to value now. But there are also issues of dignity and basic human needs that are so tough. I don’t poop alone, ever. I rarely get a full shower/blow dry. I have to ask permission and move mountains to go to the doctor. I feel like a servant, a nanny. My marriage has suffered.

I am also so grateful to lay with my kids while they nap, and to see our city through them, and to have found part time work that I’m proud of.

This is pathetic. Stop being a mommy martyr. Hire yourself a babysitter. Have date nights. Go and see live music. Have your hair done. You don’t have to give up your life because you have some kids. Eventually they will be in school. Then what?

It's a stage of life pp. They aren't little forever and you do get your freedom back eventually. Dh & I really didn't need to go out on date nights because once the kids were sleeping through the night we would put them to bed (7pm) and have the rest of the evening together. We made it work.

Flash forward a couple of decades later - dh and I do go bar hopping on occasion, we see live music, we even stay out overnight if we want to. It does get easier. But I still remember what it was like to be in the trenches of parenting small children.

Good job losing your identity!!!

The only people who feel that their identity is wrapped up in which concerts they see or how they consume alcohol are teenagers or adults who wish they were still teenagers.
Go be something, do something, or make something, pp. Stop identifying yourself by your favorite band.

So in your opinion the choices are:

1. Quit any hobbies, no date nights, minimal personal grooming

OR

2. Stay an adolescent identifying yourself by your favorite band??

It’s sad you see motherhood as so black or white. I enjoy my interests, regular date nights, nights out with friends and still spend time and money keeping up my appearance. I also love my children. It’s not either/or.

Becoming 100% about your kids doesn’t make you a better parent!!

You can go to concerts and out to eat when you have the time and the money without it being your entire identity. I don’t feel like I have lost myself if I don’t go to a concert in a while.
And identifying yourself primarily as a wife and mother (whatever that looks like to you) DOES make you a better parent.

You know it's not just about going to a concert every once in awhile. It's about valuing your personal interests outside of being a parent. Obviously you prefer the martyr route and relish the idea of self-sacrifice but I personally enjoy being a mother to a toddler and also a lot of other things in life.

I think you can value your personal interests without them serving as your entire identity. I would feel like I lost myself if my children and spouse left me. I like going rowing, and I missed it the years I had small kids and couldn’t go, but I didn’t feel like I lost myself or my identity. It sounds like you feel the opposite. You like your spouse and your toddler, and you would miss them if they moved away, but you wouldn’t feel like you lost yourself. You would feel like you lost yourself and your identity if you couldn’t go to concerts or drinking with friends.
I don’t consider myself a martyr, just an adult. And I do think you have an adolescent mindset typical of “16 and pregnant “ crowd.

Wow, your worldview is so warped and judgmental. You can mischaracterize me all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Not that pp, but reread what you wrote and what prompted pp's reply to you. You come across as pretty darned judgmental yourself.

I think there were multiple posters. I don't think any of my comments were mean-spirited--I just wanted to point out that we don't have to see ourselves as sacrificing our "freedom" to parent young children. I continue to have personal interests outside of my child that, despite what the previous poster wants to believe, do not involve going to concerts or drinking. Although, more power to the moms who get to go to concerts! I'm just not cool enough.

You still have your own personal interests even after you have kids but unless you are able to drop your kids off with a regular sitter on a regular basis there is going to be a very real limit as to how often you will be free to pursue your own given interests. Sometimes you just plain have to wait until the kids are a bit older. It's not like you have kids and BAM! your whole life is over. But the reality is that little kids need a ton of supervision and unless you have a lot of excess income, you are not going to be able to SAH, AND outsource a lot of your childcare AND afford to go fun adult places and do fun adult things. It's just not practical.

Why do you need to afford childcare to go do fun adult things? Can’t your DH watch the kids once a week and give you a few hours on the weekend to go for a run, meet a girlfriend for brunch, read a book at a coffee shop, etc.? Just because you’re a SAHM doesn’t mean you’re on kid duty 24/7. I work, but even if I stopped working, I’d still expect DH to do his fair share outside of working hours. In dual income families, working parents still put in plenty of time with kids after work. I don’t understand SAHPs who let the working spouse off the hook for helping out just because they have a job. It’s totally possible to have a full time career and take care of the kids and house while your spouse gets a break.

If you are mommy 24/7 and not expecting your partner to give you a break, you’re doing it wrong.

I agree but sadly I’ve never met a household with a SAHM where the woman had an active social life and was as independent as her husband. Maybe this changes as kids get older but doesn’t seem to work this way for most families when kids are younger. Every SAHM I know is 100% about the kids, few interests, is treated like household help by her husband and has a husband who doesn’t do anything in terms of housework.

Well you haven't met me or any of my friends, and we are nothing like the SAHMs you describe.

It depends on what you consider an active social life. Working spouses do have more time for adults only business trips, after work cocktail hours, gym (sans kids) and their social lives aren't restricted to yoga class and lunch out with friends while the kids are in school.

I've actually really enjoyed being a SAHM. I had fun doing playgroups, volunteering at the school, hanging out at swim practice, doing Mommy and Me classes and taking the kids fun places with their friends like the zoo. I had a social life but it's a kid centered, daytime social life. Honestly, at night I just wanted to hang out with my husband and go to bed early because I knew that the kids would be up bright and early before the sun was up the next morning.

I pretty much know of no SAHMs who were free to go out on the town at night with their friends or were able to travel w/o kids in tow. When we traveled we traveled with our husband and kids. A few SAHMs that I knew traveled (with kids) to visit family over the summer while their husbands stayed at home and took care of work and projects around the house. In general, SAHPs generally socialize with family and other parents with similar age kids. Working spouses interact with a broader range of people - empty nesters, young and single, parents of varying age ranges, etc.

I know because I worked for quite awhile before we had kids. There is a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Kids need to feel loved by their parents and extended families. (They know money is no substitute.)

How does a kid feel loved when no family is home all day? And when mom or dad are home, they’re usually caught up in a bazillion ‘more important’ things to do.

Complete strangers are filling the void, in one way or another. Is that what you really want? Is it really worth the glory of being a duel “working” parent scenario?

Good parenting is an actual job, probably the hardest job there is. And most important job, because when it gets messed up, really bad things can happen down the road. Your child is worth your time - lots of it, because that’s what it takes.

Oh give me a break. Most dual income families I know are parents with flexible jobs. DH and I both make six figures and can set our own schedules around core hours, work from home, etc. This allows us to stagger our schedules so we certainly aren’t neglecting our kids all day long. Disposable income means we can outsource things so we aren’t caught up in “a bazillion” more important things when not working.

This isn’t a slam on SAHMs. I think every family should do what is right for them, which can change at any given moment in time and vary based on parental strengths, availability of family help, and income earning potential.

But your skewed “view” on how 2 working parent households operate sounds like a fantasy you tell yourself to justify whatever life decisions you’ve made. And while money is not a substitute for love, study after study shows there are ample benefits to socioeconomic security. My kids have awesome federal health insurance thanks to me. They will never have to take out a student loan or otherwise start their adult lives saddled in debt. They will be able to experience travel, extracurriculars, etc. We already have a ton saved for retirement by mid thirties, so our kids will not have to struggle financially to care for us in old age.

Some people can do this on one income and it makes sense to have a SAHP if the breadwinner spouse does not have a flexible schedule. But for many of us, having two careers is immensely beneficial for our family even though this contradicts your simple worldview.

[Anonymous]

I do not know any dual family homes with flexible jobs. Most people do not have flexibility in their jobs. Most are unfulfilled at their jobs. Most do not have job security. Most do not make tons of money. Most people work because their paycheck is required at home.

If you have the luxury of outsourcing your chores, making your kids lives stress free, flexibility of schedule to not have caretakers do the parenting, being there for your children all the time, not being run ragged yourself - you are very blessed and you are also an anomaly as a SAH/WOH/WAH parent. This scenario is not what is available to majority of parents in any capacity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Resentment to DH as stated upthread, but also the resentment towards WOH moms whose kids are in daycare. I'm sorry if I'm not feeling chipper and enthusiastic like you - You are "refreshed" and haven't been with your kids since the moment they work up like a SAHM. So, yea, I am a bit burnt out by the time it is 430pm - my kids have been awake for the last 8+ hours and bedtime isn't for another 4 hours. Those 12 hrs days get long even with screen time mixed in (gasp!), outings/playground/nature center, playdates, etc. 24/7.

Yeah, I'm so refreshed after a long day at work. If working is so easy why don't you just go back?

Ha. Not that pp, but I used to envy the adult conversation that dh had at work, as well as, his ability to focus on something for longer than 3 minutes w/o a baby or toddler interrupting him. I even envied his "alone time" during his commute into work.

I can laugh at it now but, at the time, when simply going to the bathroom all by myself was not easy those were some very real feelings.

Yes!! I cried last week when my husband returned from a business trip (four hours of sweet silence each way on the Acela) and casually showed me video of some dumb Grateful Dead cover band playing in a bar he’d gone to after his meetings. I can’t remember the last time I was at a bar, or saw live music that wasn’t kid-themed, or had a beer without one eyeball following a toddler around the room. I bawled like a crazy person and he didn’t get it. At all.

Like this thread points out there are so many things about my daily SAHM routine that I need to value now. But there are also issues of dignity and basic human needs that are so tough. I don’t poop alone, ever. I rarely get a full shower/blow dry. I have to ask permission and move mountains to go to the doctor. I feel like a servant, a nanny. My marriage has suffered.

I am also so grateful to lay with my kids while they nap, and to see our city through them, and to have found part time work that I’m proud of.

This is pathetic. Stop being a mommy martyr. Hire yourself a babysitter. Have date nights. Go and see live music. Have your hair done. You don’t have to give up your life because you have some kids. Eventually they will be in school. Then what?

It's a stage of life pp. They aren't little forever and you do get your freedom back eventually. Dh & I really didn't need to go out on date nights because once the kids were sleeping through the night we would put them to bed (7pm) and have the rest of the evening together. We made it work.

Flash forward a couple of decades later - dh and I do go bar hopping on occasion, we see live music, we even stay out overnight if we want to. It does get easier. But I still remember what it was like to be in the trenches of parenting small children.

Good job losing your identity!!!

The only people who feel that their identity is wrapped up in which concerts they see or how they consume alcohol are teenagers or adults who wish they were still teenagers.
Go be something, do something, or make something, pp. Stop identifying yourself by your favorite band.

So in your opinion the choices are:

1. Quit any hobbies, no date nights, minimal personal grooming

OR

2. Stay an adolescent identifying yourself by your favorite band??

It’s sad you see motherhood as so black or white. I enjoy my interests, regular date nights, nights out with friends and still spend time and money keeping up my appearance. I also love my children. It’s not either/or.

Becoming 100% about your kids doesn’t make you a better parent!!

You can go to concerts and out to eat when you have the time and the money without it being your entire identity. I don’t feel like I have lost myself if I don’t go to a concert in a while.
And identifying yourself primarily as a wife and mother (whatever that looks like to you) DOES make you a better parent.

You know it's not just about going to a concert every once in awhile. It's about valuing your personal interests outside of being a parent. Obviously you prefer the martyr route and relish the idea of self-sacrifice but I personally enjoy being a mother to a toddler and also a lot of other things in life.

I think you can value your personal interests without them serving as your entire identity. I would feel like I lost myself if my children and spouse left me. I like going rowing, and I missed it the years I had small kids and couldn’t go, but I didn’t feel like I lost myself or my identity. It sounds like you feel the opposite. You like your spouse and your toddler, and you would miss them if they moved away, but you wouldn’t feel like you lost yourself. You would feel like you lost yourself and your identity if you couldn’t go to concerts or drinking with friends.
I don’t consider myself a martyr, just an adult. And I do think you have an adolescent mindset typical of “16 and pregnant “ crowd.

Wow, your worldview is so warped and judgmental. You can mischaracterize me all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Not that pp, but reread what you wrote and what prompted pp's reply to you. You come across as pretty darned judgmental yourself.

I think there were multiple posters. I don't think any of my comments were mean-spirited--I just wanted to point out that we don't have to see ourselves as sacrificing our "freedom" to parent young children. I continue to have personal interests outside of my child that, despite what the previous poster wants to believe, do not involve going to concerts or drinking. Although, more power to the moms who get to go to concerts! I'm just not cool enough.

You still have your own personal interests even after you have kids but unless you are able to drop your kids off with a regular sitter on a regular basis there is going to be a very real limit as to how often you will be free to pursue your own given interests. Sometimes you just plain have to wait until the kids are a bit older. It's not like you have kids and BAM! your whole life is over. But the reality is that little kids need a ton of supervision and unless you have a lot of excess income, you are not going to be able to SAH, AND outsource a lot of your childcare AND afford to go fun adult places and do fun adult things. It's just not practical.

Why do you need to afford childcare to go do fun adult things? Can’t your DH watch the kids once a week and give you a few hours on the weekend to go for a run, meet a girlfriend for brunch, read a book at a coffee shop, etc.? Just because you’re a SAHM doesn’t mean you’re on kid duty 24/7. I work, but even if I stopped working, I’d still expect DH to do his fair share outside of working hours. In dual income families, working parents still put in plenty of time with kids after work. I don’t understand SAHPs who let the working spouse off the hook for helping out just because they have a job. It’s totally possible to have a full time career and take care of the kids and house while your spouse gets a break.

If you are mommy 24/7 and not expecting your partner to give you a break, you’re doing it wrong.

I agree but sadly I’ve never met a household with a SAHM where the woman had an active social life and was as independent as her husband. Maybe this changes as kids get older but doesn’t seem to work this way for most families when kids are younger. Every SAHM I know is 100% about the kids, few interests, is treated like household help by her husband and has a husband who doesn’t do anything in terms of housework.

Well you haven't met me or any of my friends, and we are nothing like the SAHMs you describe.

It depends on what you consider an active social life. Working spouses do have more time for adults only business trips, after work cocktail hours, gym (sans kids) and their social lives aren't restricted to yoga class and lunch out with friends while the kids are in school.

I've actually really enjoyed being a SAHM. I had fun doing playgroups, volunteering at the school, hanging out at swim practice, doing Mommy and Me classes and taking the kids fun places with their friends like the zoo. I had a social life but it's a kid centered, daytime social life. Honestly, at night I just wanted to hang out with my husband and go to bed early because I knew that the kids would be up bright and early before the sun was up the next morning.

I pretty much know of no SAHMs who were free to go out on the town at night with their friends or were able to travel w/o kids in tow. When we traveled we traveled with our husband and kids. A few SAHMs that I knew traveled (with kids) to visit family over the summer while their husbands stayed at home and took care of work and projects around the house. In general, SAHPs generally socialize with family and other parents with similar age kids. Working spouses interact with a broader range of people - empty nesters, young and single, parents of varying age ranges, etc.

I know because I worked for quite awhile before we had kids. There is a difference.

I'm pretty sure everyone on this board worked before we had kids. My job was not very social, science position - lots of independent lab work. I interacted with more people once I left my position (and the city). I have neighbors of varying ages that I've met at block parties, am involved with my church and volunteered on committees there - these elements of my life expose me to various ages/empty nesters much more than my job ever did.

This is why generalizing about working or SAHM women is so tricky. Everyone's different.

[Anonymous]

I'd argue that most parents of young kids, working or no, socialize with family and other parents with similar age kids. That's not just true of SAHMs. People tend to flock to others like themselves.

[Anonymous]

Happier, well rested children. Less stress for the entire family. Less illness. Summer is fun and I do not have to worry about childcare.

House is messier and so outsourced cleaning and scheduled it more frequently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd argue that most parents of young kids, working or no, socialize with family and other parents with similar age kids. That's not just true of SAHMs. People tend to flock to others like themselves.

Yes, but working parents usually have more time/opportunity to interact with a wider range of people at work. They do have a life outside of being a parent.

Don't get me wrong, I met lots of very sweet empty nesters/retirees when my kids were little. They were sweet to my kids and we talked in the front yard at times. We didn't hang out and go out places together. But we didn't have to.

If you SAH and you spend a lot of time away from your kids and hanging around other adults, you are outsourcing childcare in some way. Most SAHPs that I know do not outsource a lot of childcare. It's just not practical.