Custody Issue - Pendente Lite VS. Divorce Decree - Help!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a dad, I simply refuse to believe there are dads out there (in the DC area) that don't do the practices, games, PTCs, field trips, camping trips etc.

I can't recall more than maybe one or two absent dads that weren't deployed. And I have 3 kids that are 14,13, and 9. What's that? Thirty six years of parenting.

This is as false narrative being pushed by angry women.

So my DH is at a lot of the events but I'm the one who researched the activities, signed kid up, figured out how we'd get him to practices, made sure he had clean clothes for practice packed when we left that morning, that his uniform is ready for games, was on top of when practice was rained out and how we would get him home those days, when games were and that we were at the field on time, when we were supposed to bring the snacks and that we bought food for it and it was packed to go etc

So no, while my husband is spending the same 70minutes standing on the side of the field as I am, he does not get the same credit for for doing the last tiny bit of the effort involved - especially when its the fun part where we are basically socializing with friends - when I did all the work to make it happen x every aspect of our lives

Yes we both work full time

Sorry, I get that there's some pre-event work required on some of these things but throwing the uniform on the DR table the night before and filling the Nalgene isn't as time consuming as getting up at 7 on a Saturday and driving across NOVA to watch 9 innings of baseball. Rained out games? There's no work involved there- it's a text from the league! Food for there? I have a backpack that is constantly filled with granola bars, pretzels, beef jerky, tuna salad, peanut butter crackers, gummy bears, etc.

But keep pushing the narrative that dads are worthless when it comes to rearing kids.

This. Putting the uni out before the game, knowing the game times/fields and getting snacks are great feats and require so much work and consternation? And try standing during a 45 degree rainy day watching soccer games on a crisp fall weekend. It's not terribly pleasant.

Yeah. Looking at your phone for 15 seconds to ID the field and time is soooooo hard. lol.

Ok then I assume you are all DHs that do 50% of the work to make your lives run smoothly. None of the individual tasks are hard or time consuming, I fully agree, doing them all all the time is a lot of work and planning and things to remember and track. Its not just doing this for soccer that its a big deal, its for soccer + ballet + school events + summer camps + birthday parties + family holidays + sick days and other times plans go array + meeting basic daily needs ensuring everyone has meals and transportation etc.

If you take on half of that for your family, my hats off to you because I don't see many people at it. What I typically see if dad's gladly abdicating all the behind the scenes work and just showing up for the main event which the mom is typically at too. But seriously I love it if you guys are doing your fair share of that and your parenting contributions are huge. I wish more men were like you and saw that as equally their responsibility. The dad (or mom) that does none of the behind the scenes work and claims to be an equally involved parent because they show up to one soccer game a week is just wrong.

To clarify rained out practices are a big deal in my household b/c my kid gets home from practice by carpooling with another family - if there is no practice there is no carpool home and we have to figure out a new plan to get him home from school.

No snark at all intended but you seem very mad at your husband. Or at minimum, very dissatisfied with him. You should talk to him and try to fix this, it will just erode your marriage to carry around this much bitterness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe that people on this forum are arguing over the things that they have to do for extra curricular activities. Petty. Grow up.

I bring the snacks.
I stand in the rain.
I wash the uniform.

Get a grip and learn to work together. This is why divorce, and bad marriages, are so hard on kids. Confront your issues and move on.

As a solo parent, I do all of these things. Reading the threads on this forum have made be realize how juvenile some people can be.

How would you suggest people do that? If you're the parent who's doing all of those chores while your spouse sits on the couch watching tv, and shows zero willingness to change no matter what you say/do, what is your solution to that? For some people, if they're already doing most of those tasks on their own plus all the additional work their spouse generates (extra laundry, dishes, etc.) and they don't feel like they're getting anything else of value from their spouse (e.g., emotional support), it might seem like a better deal to divorce.

Let them fail. Give them a responsibility, let them fail, and let them deal with the consequences of that. Don't nag, just let them face the consequences of their actions. They are an adult.

Do what you need to do to feel happy. And adjust that if needed so your happiness isn't defined by perfect running of the entire household. Really figure out what will not effect YOU. Maybe you can't deal with a messy kitchen so you do do the dishes. But if the kids are mad about their laundry not happening, tell them to talk to the other parent. If Susie shows up to Larla's birthday without a gift and is upset, tell them dad was supposed to pick that up and to ask him about it. You don't have to be a b about it, but just let some things go. If they don't all happen the world won't end. And other parent being responsible for it will likely teach them more than your complaining ever could.

If other parent agrees to do the dishes and then you just sit there for four hours waiting for them to do the dishes getting progressively more angry until suddenly you throw your hands up and say, 'JESUS THE DISHES HAVE TO GET DONE IM GOING TO DO IT MYSELF' then you have done nothing of value. You have set up a situation where you are going to be angry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry this is happening.

Do you have an attorney? What are the arguments that prevented a 50/50 arrangement? Does your work schedule allow the logistics that a 50/50 situation requires?

Yes, I have an attorney. My attorney mentioned that this seems to be the new norm recently with this court pushing dad's into the every other weekend scenario.

The judge basically said that it is clear that I've been a very involved father since birth but that since separation DW has taken on the primary caregiver role and that is the new norm. I did my best to explain to the judge all of the tactics that DW has been using to separate and alienate me from DD in an attempt to get primary custody. The judge seemed to be listening intently but then he went to deliberate and came back with this ruling.

Yes, I work from home and have a flexible schedule to accommodate 50/50.

If the judge listened to you and STILL came back with this ruling, there’s something you aren’t telling us. No offense, but “very involved”, does not always mean healthy and effective parenting. I say this as 1) the now adult child of a “very involved” parent, 2) a divorced parent whose “very involved” former spouse doesn’t get why the court won’t give 50/50, and 3) a teacher who deals with “very involved” parents frequently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe that people on this forum are arguing over the things that they have to do for extra curricular activities. Petty. Grow up.

I bring the snacks.
I stand in the rain.
I wash the uniform.

Get a grip and learn to work together. This is why divorce, and bad marriages, are so hard on kids. Confront your issues and move on.

As a solo parent, I do all of these things. Reading the threads on this forum have made be realize how juvenile some people can be.

How would you suggest people do that? If you're the parent who's doing all of those chores while your spouse sits on the couch watching tv, and shows zero willingness to change no matter what you say/do, what is your solution to that? For some people, if they're already doing most of those tasks on their own plus all the additional work their spouse generates (extra laundry, dishes, etc.) and they don't feel like they're getting anything else of value from their spouse (e.g., emotional support), it might seem like a better deal to divorce.

Let them fail. Give them a responsibility, let them fail, and let them deal with the consequences of that. Don't nag, just let them face the consequences of their actions. They are an adult.

Do what you need to do to feel happy. And adjust that if needed so your happiness isn't defined by perfect running of the entire household. Really figure out what will not effect YOU. Maybe you can't deal with a messy kitchen so you do do the dishes. But if the kids are mad about their laundry not happening, tell them to talk to the other parent. If Susie shows up to Larla's birthday without a gift and is upset, tell them dad was supposed to pick that up and to ask him about it. You don't have to be a b about it, but just let some things go. If they don't all happen the world won't end. And other parent being responsible for it will likely teach them more than your complaining ever could.

If other parent agrees to do the dishes and then you just sit there for four hours waiting for them to do the dishes getting progressively more angry until suddenly you throw your hands up and say, 'JESUS THE DISHES HAVE TO GET DONE IM GOING TO DO IT MYSELF' then you have done nothing of value. You have set up a situation where you are going to be angry.

Putting your kids in the middle of your marriage issues is really shitty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe that people on this forum are arguing over the things that they have to do for extra curricular activities. Petty. Grow up.

I bring the snacks.
I stand in the rain.
I wash the uniform.

Get a grip and learn to work together. This is why divorce, and bad marriages, are so hard on kids. Confront your issues and move on.

As a solo parent, I do all of these things. Reading the threads on this forum have made be realize how juvenile some people can be.

How would you suggest people do that? If you're the parent who's doing all of those chores while your spouse sits on the couch watching tv, and shows zero willingness to change no matter what you say/do, what is your solution to that? For some people, if they're already doing most of those tasks on their own plus all the additional work their spouse generates (extra laundry, dishes, etc.) and they don't feel like they're getting anything else of value from their spouse (e.g., emotional support), it might seem like a better deal to divorce.

Let them fail. Give them a responsibility, let them fail, and let them deal with the consequences of that. Don't nag, just let them face the consequences of their actions. They are an adult.

Do what you need to do to feel happy. And adjust that if needed so your happiness isn't defined by perfect running of the entire household. Really figure out what will not effect YOU. Maybe you can't deal with a messy kitchen so you do do the dishes. But if the kids are mad about their laundry not happening, tell them to talk to the other parent. If Susie shows up to Larla's birthday without a gift and is upset, tell them dad was supposed to pick that up and to ask him about it. You don't have to be a b about it, but just let some things go. If they don't all happen the world won't end. And other parent being responsible for it will likely teach them more than your complaining ever could.

If other parent agrees to do the dishes and then you just sit there for four hours waiting for them to do the dishes getting progressively more angry until suddenly you throw your hands up and say, 'JESUS THE DISHES HAVE TO GET DONE IM GOING TO DO IT MYSELF' then you have done nothing of value. You have set up a situation where you are going to be angry.

Putting your kids in the middle of your marriage issues is really shitty.

It's only putting them in the middle of your marriage if you aren't letting it go and are getting mad at spouse. I think of it as just kids knowing who their parents are. This is the mentality of the put upon parent though. You have to do a, b, c, for the sake of x person/organization/whatever. My kids will be happier with parents who are happy with each other and love each other even though they might occasionally be disappointed that one of us dropped the ball in a way that effects them from time to time.

Your comment assumes that I say something mean like I snap at them 'go as your father about that, ugh he's so lazy.' In reality I say something like that, 'oh that's on dad's chore list this week, you can ask him when he comes home not sure where he is on that.' That isn't putting them in the middle of my marriage, its showing them that both of us bear the load of running the household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe that people on this forum are arguing over the things that they have to do for extra curricular activities. Petty. Grow up.

I bring the snacks.
I stand in the rain.
I wash the uniform.

Get a grip and learn to work together. This is why divorce, and bad marriages, are so hard on kids. Confront your issues and move on.

As a solo parent, I do all of these things. Reading the threads on this forum have made be realize how juvenile some people can be.

How would you suggest people do that? If you're the parent who's doing all of those chores while your spouse sits on the couch watching tv, and shows zero willingness to change no matter what you say/do, what is your solution to that? For some people, if they're already doing most of those tasks on their own plus all the additional work their spouse generates (extra laundry, dishes, etc.) and they don't feel like they're getting anything else of value from their spouse (e.g., emotional support), it might seem like a better deal to divorce.

Let them fail. Give them a responsibility, let them fail, and let them deal with the consequences of that. Don't nag, just let them face the consequences of their actions. They are an adult.

Do what you need to do to feel happy. And adjust that if needed so your happiness isn't defined by perfect running of the entire household. Really figure out what will not effect YOU. Maybe you can't deal with a messy kitchen so you do do the dishes. But if the kids are mad about their laundry not happening, tell them to talk to the other parent. If Susie shows up to Larla's birthday without a gift and is upset, tell them dad was supposed to pick that up and to ask him about it. You don't have to be a b about it, but just let some things go. If they don't all happen the world won't end. And other parent being responsible for it will likely teach them more than your complaining ever could.

If other parent agrees to do the dishes and then you just sit there for four hours waiting for them to do the dishes getting progressively more angry until suddenly you throw your hands up and say, 'JESUS THE DISHES HAVE TO GET DONE IM GOING TO DO IT MYSELF' then you have done nothing of value. You have set up a situation where you are going to be angry.

Putting your kids in the middle of your marriage issues is really shitty.

It's only putting them in the middle of your marriage if you aren't letting it go and are getting mad at spouse. I think of it as just kids knowing who their parents are. This is the mentality of the put upon parent though. You have to do a, b, c, for the sake of x person/organization/whatever. My kids will be happier with parents who are happy with each other and love each other even though they might occasionally be disappointed that one of us dropped the ball in a way that effects them from time to time.

Your comment assumes that I say something mean like I snap at them 'go as your father about that, ugh he's so lazy.' In reality I say something like that, 'oh that's on dad's chore list this week, you can ask him when he comes home not sure where he is on that.' That isn't putting them in the middle of my marriage, its showing them that both of us bear the load of running the household.

That's fine for you, but Susie is the one who suffers the social embarrassment of showing up at Larla's party without a gift. You making straightforward rather than passive-aggressive comments about your husband doesn't fix that, and unless Susie is old enough to take herself to the store and buy a gift, she's at the mercy of her parents and the decisions they make about who will help her with that.

[Anonymous]

/\ I'm a female married PP BTW. My husband rises to the expectations set for him. I don't bail him out and therefore he takes them seriously. He's a grown up, I'm a grown up, and when I feel myself getting irritated at him for something like what you've all described. I tell him about it and we reshuffle something and I mentally let something go. Being happy is more important than any load of laundry, milk gallon left on the counter or birthday present unshopped for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:/\ I'm a female married PP BTW. My husband rises to the expectations set for him. I don't bail him out and therefore he takes them seriously. He's a grown up, I'm a grown up, and when I feel myself getting irritated at him for something like what you've all described. I tell him about it and we reshuffle something and I mentally let something go. Being happy is more important than any load of laundry, milk gallon left on the counter or birthday present unshopped for.

Someone posted before I posted this. I'm the 'let them fail' poster not the immediate pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:/\ I'm a female married PP BTW. My husband rises to the expectations set for him. I don't bail him out and therefore he takes them seriously. He's a grown up, I'm a grown up, and when I feel myself getting irritated at him for something like what you've all described. I tell him about it and we reshuffle something and I mentally let something go. Being happy is more important than any load of laundry, milk gallon left on the counter or birthday present unshopped for.

this right here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:/\ I'm a female married PP BTW. My husband rises to the expectations set for him. I don't bail him out and therefore he takes them seriously. He's a grown up, I'm a grown up, and when I feel myself getting irritated at him for something like what you've all described. I tell him about it and we reshuffle something and I mentally let something go. Being happy is more important than any load of laundry, milk gallon left on the counter or birthday present unshopped for.

The bolded part is key, and not every spouse will do that. For some people, no matter how they address it, their spouse will always be a freeloader. The process of coming to recognize that, accept it and decide what to do about it for yourself can be a long and painful one. Telling someone who's in the middle of it that it wouldn't be an issue if they just didn't get upset isn't helpful because their spouse isn't your spouse and doesn't respond the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe that people on this forum are arguing over the things that they have to do for extra curricular activities. Petty. Grow up.

I bring the snacks.
I stand in the rain.
I wash the uniform.

Get a grip and learn to work together. This is why divorce, and bad marriages, are so hard on kids. Confront your issues and move on.

As a solo parent, I do all of these things. Reading the threads on this forum have made be realize how juvenile some people can be.

How would you suggest people do that? If you're the parent who's doing all of those chores while your spouse sits on the couch watching tv, and shows zero willingness to change no matter what you say/do, what is your solution to that? For some people, if they're already doing most of those tasks on their own plus all the additional work their spouse generates (extra laundry, dishes, etc.) and they don't feel like they're getting anything else of value from their spouse (e.g., emotional support), it might seem like a better deal to divorce.

Let them fail. Give them a responsibility, let them fail, and let them deal with the consequences of that. Don't nag, just let them face the consequences of their actions. They are an adult.

Do what you need to do to feel happy. And adjust that if needed so your happiness isn't defined by perfect running of the entire household. Really figure out what will not effect YOU. Maybe you can't deal with a messy kitchen so you do do the dishes. But if the kids are mad about their laundry not happening, tell them to talk to the other parent. If Susie shows up to Larla's birthday without a gift and is upset, tell them dad was supposed to pick that up and to ask him about it. You don't have to be a b about it, but just let some things go. If they don't all happen the world won't end. And other parent being responsible for it will likely teach them more than your complaining ever could.

If other parent agrees to do the dishes and then you just sit there for four hours waiting for them to do the dishes getting progressively more angry until suddenly you throw your hands up and say, 'JESUS THE DISHES HAVE TO GET DONE IM GOING TO DO IT MYSELF' then you have done nothing of value. You have set up a situation where you are going to be angry.

Putting your kids in the middle of your marriage issues is really shitty.

It's only putting them in the middle of your marriage if you aren't letting it go and are getting mad at spouse. I think of it as just kids knowing who their parents are. This is the mentality of the put upon parent though. You have to do a, b, c, for the sake of x person/organization/whatever. My kids will be happier with parents who are happy with each other and love each other even though they might occasionally be disappointed that one of us dropped the ball in a way that effects them from time to time.

Your comment assumes that I say something mean like I snap at them 'go as your father about that, ugh he's so lazy.' In reality I say something like that, 'oh that's on dad's chore list this week, you can ask him when he comes home not sure where he is on that.' That isn't putting them in the middle of my marriage, its showing them that both of us bear the load of running the household.

That's fine for you, but Susie is the one who suffers the social embarrassment of showing up at Larla's party without a gift. You making straightforward rather than passive-aggressive comments about your husband doesn't fix that, and unless Susie is old enough to take herself to the store and buy a gift, she's at the mercy of her parents and the decisions they make about who will help her with that.

Kids only suffer social embarrassment about something like this when they're old enough to have some agency as well. Hey Susie, Larla's party is next week. "Dad's on tap to pick up a present so make sure you get with him to tell him what you'd like to give her."

Dad and Susie are in on that together. If Dad forgets then Susie knows Dad needs a reminder next time. If Susie comes to me the day before the party and says she's asked Dad 15 times to help her get a present then I'll help her. And I'll talk to Dad and we'll figure out how to make that not happen next time. If Susie forgets and isn't managing her life and shows up to the party without a present, that is between her and Dad. Kids don't need to have perfect lives with no speed bumps, and they should have accountability, experience their parents imperfections in understandable and small ways, and feel empowered to advocate for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe that people on this forum are arguing over the things that they have to do for extra curricular activities. Petty. Grow up.

I bring the snacks.
I stand in the rain.
I wash the uniform.

Get a grip and learn to work together. This is why divorce, and bad marriages, are so hard on kids. Confront your issues and move on.

As a solo parent, I do all of these things. Reading the threads on this forum have made be realize how juvenile some people can be.

How would you suggest people do that? If you're the parent who's doing all of those chores while your spouse sits on the couch watching tv, and shows zero willingness to change no matter what you say/do, what is your solution to that? For some people, if they're already doing most of those tasks on their own plus all the additional work their spouse generates (extra laundry, dishes, etc.) and they don't feel like they're getting anything else of value from their spouse (e.g., emotional support), it might seem like a better deal to divorce.

Let them fail. Give them a responsibility, let them fail, and let them deal with the consequences of that. Don't nag, just let them face the consequences of their actions. They are an adult.

Do what you need to do to feel happy. And adjust that if needed so your happiness isn't defined by perfect running of the entire household. Really figure out what will not effect YOU. Maybe you can't deal with a messy kitchen so you do do the dishes. But if the kids are mad about their laundry not happening, tell them to talk to the other parent. If Susie shows up to Larla's birthday without a gift and is upset, tell them dad was supposed to pick that up and to ask him about it. You don't have to be a b about it, but just let some things go. If they don't all happen the world won't end. And other parent being responsible for it will likely teach them more than your complaining ever could.

If other parent agrees to do the dishes and then you just sit there for four hours waiting for them to do the dishes getting progressively more angry until suddenly you throw your hands up and say, 'JESUS THE DISHES HAVE TO GET DONE IM GOING TO DO IT MYSELF' then you have done nothing of value. You have set up a situation where you are going to be angry.

Putting your kids in the middle of your marriage issues is really shitty.

It's only putting them in the middle of your marriage if you aren't letting it go and are getting mad at spouse. I think of it as just kids knowing who their parents are. This is the mentality of the put upon parent though. You have to do a, b, c, for the sake of x person/organization/whatever. My kids will be happier with parents who are happy with each other and love each other even though they might occasionally be disappointed that one of us dropped the ball in a way that effects them from time to time.

Your comment assumes that I say something mean like I snap at them 'go as your father about that, ugh he's so lazy.' In reality I say something like that, 'oh that's on dad's chore list this week, you can ask him when he comes home not sure where he is on that.' That isn't putting them in the middle of my marriage, its showing them that both of us bear the load of running the household.

That's fine for you, but Susie is the one who suffers the social embarrassment of showing up at Larla's party without a gift. You making straightforward rather than passive-aggressive comments about your husband doesn't fix that, and unless Susie is old enough to take herself to the store and buy a gift, she's at the mercy of her parents and the decisions they make about who will help her with that.

Kids only suffer social embarrassment about something like this when they're old enough to have some agency as well. Hey Susie, Larla's party is next week. "Dad's on tap to pick up a present so make sure you get with him to tell him what you'd like to give her."

Dad and Susie are in on that together. If Dad forgets then Susie knows Dad needs a reminder next time. If Susie comes to me the day before the party and says she's asked Dad 15 times to help her get a present then I'll help her. And I'll talk to Dad and we'll figure out how to make that not happen next time. If Susie forgets and isn't managing her life and shows up to the party without a present, that is between her and Dad. Kids don't need to have perfect lives with no speed bumps, and they should have accountability, experience their parents imperfections in understandable and small ways, and feel empowered to advocate for themselves.

Yep. True story - I'd much rather be nagged by my 11 YO son than my wife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:/\ I'm a female married PP BTW. My husband rises to the expectations set for him. I don't bail him out and therefore he takes them seriously. He's a grown up, I'm a grown up, and when I feel myself getting irritated at him for something like what you've all described. I tell him about it and we reshuffle something and I mentally let something go. Being happy is more important than any load of laundry, milk gallon left on the counter or birthday present unshopped for.

The bolded part is key, and not every spouse will do that. For some people, no matter how they address it, their spouse will always be a freeloader. The process of coming to recognize that, accept it and decide what to do about it for yourself can be a long and painful one. Telling someone who's in the middle of it that it wouldn't be an issue if they just didn't get upset isn't helpful because their spouse isn't your spouse and doesn't respond the same way.

I don't believe that every spouse is in that bucket. Some are, they should get divorced. But I also know people that lose their minds over how their spouse folds sheets. And those people are as responsible for their marital problems as the lazy spouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:/\ I'm a female married PP BTW. My husband rises to the expectations set for him. I don't bail him out and therefore he takes them seriously. He's a grown up, I'm a grown up, and when I feel myself getting irritated at him for something like what you've all described. I tell him about it and we reshuffle something and I mentally let something go. Being happy is more important than any load of laundry, milk gallon left on the counter or birthday present unshopped for.

The bolded part is key, and not every spouse will do that. For some people, no matter how they address it, their spouse will always be a freeloader. The process of coming to recognize that, accept it and decide what to do about it for yourself can be a long and painful one. Telling someone who's in the middle of it that it wouldn't be an issue if they just didn't get upset isn't helpful because their spouse isn't your spouse and doesn't respond the same way.

I don't believe that every spouse is in that bucket. Some are, they should get divorced. But I also know people that lose their minds over how their spouse folds sheets. And those people are as responsible for their marital problems as the lazy spouse.

This is evident early in a marriage. People do not become lazy after 10 years of marriage with NO signs beforehand unless there is a mental or health issue.

[Anonymous]

The response are unbelievable. You have moms here suggesting their kids get humiliated in front of their peers because they are angry their husband may or may not have done 50% of the work associated with child rearing.

How many of you out earn your husbands?

Yeah, exactly what I thought. I suppose the $45,000 youre not making doesn't count, huh?