Custody Issue - Pendente Lite VS. Divorce Decree - Help!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:/\ I'm a female married PP BTW. My husband rises to the expectations set for him. I don't bail him out and therefore he takes them seriously. He's a grown up, I'm a grown up, and when I feel myself getting irritated at him for something like what you've all described. I tell him about it and we reshuffle something and I mentally let something go. Being happy is more important than any load of laundry, milk gallon left on the counter or birthday present unshopped for.

The bolded part is key, and not every spouse will do that. For some people, no matter how they address it, their spouse will always be a freeloader. The process of coming to recognize that, accept it and decide what to do about it for yourself can be a long and painful one. Telling someone who's in the middle of it that it wouldn't be an issue if they just didn't get upset isn't helpful because their spouse isn't your spouse and doesn't respond the same way.

I don't believe that every spouse is in that bucket. Some are, they should get divorced. But I also know people that lose their minds over how their spouse folds sheets. And those people are as responsible for their marital problems as the lazy spouse.

This is evident early in a marriage. People do not become lazy after 10 years of marriage with NO signs beforehand unless there is a mental or health issue.

I agree that as a general matter, people do not suddenly become lazy after ten years of marriage, absent a physical or mental health issue. But, the extent of the laziness isn't always apparent at the beginning, nor can people always appreciate the extent to which it will get worse as life moves forward. As someone who had this issue with her spouse and was able to work through it with him, I will say that a coffee cup left in the living room when we lived in a one-bedroom apartment and the kitchen was five feet from the living room didn't feel like such a big deal, barely a blip in the household workload and I cleaned it up when I did my own. But then we bought a house, and despite the fact that the house meant a lot more work in chores and maintenance, his effort level only increased slightly, so a disproportionate share of that fell to me. Fine, we outsourced, I moved on. But then we had kids, and there was stuff there we couldn't outsource. Who would handle it (or how we'd split it) if the baby was teething and wouldn't sleep, who would take care of making bottles to send to daycare, who would make doctor's appointments, etc., all of that fell to me because he just wouldn't do it; he felt his contribution to parenting was spending a little time on the floor each evening playing with the baby, and that was it. At each step, as our lives got more complicated and our responsibilities increased, his laziness came out more and more in ways that I really didn't expect based on a coffee cup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:/\ I'm a female married PP BTW. My husband rises to the expectations set for him. I don't bail him out and therefore he takes them seriously. He's a grown up, I'm a grown up, and when I feel myself getting irritated at him for something like what you've all described. I tell him about it and we reshuffle something and I mentally let something go. Being happy is more important than any load of laundry, milk gallon left on the counter or birthday present unshopped for.

The bolded part is key, and not every spouse will do that. For some people, no matter how they address it, their spouse will always be a freeloader. The process of coming to recognize that, accept it and decide what to do about it for yourself can be a long and painful one. Telling someone who's in the middle of it that it wouldn't be an issue if they just didn't get upset isn't helpful because their spouse isn't your spouse and doesn't respond the same way.

I don't believe that every spouse is in that bucket. Some are, they should get divorced. But I also know people that lose their minds over how their spouse folds sheets. And those people are as responsible for their marital problems as the lazy spouse.

This is evident early in a marriage. People do not become lazy after 10 years of marriage with NO signs beforehand unless there is a mental or health issue.

It's a gradual change. Think death by a thousand cuts/nags. Those first 100 might be bearable but by the time the 1000th rolls around, you're kind of done with it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds familiar - I got a similar bullshit proposal from my STBX. For some reason women think they’re entitled to the kids and your money. Get an attorney. If you’re in VA it’s a no-fault state so that doesn’t matter. Fight it out

Wrong. Virginia is not a no-fault state. You can file a fault divorce in Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The response are unbelievable. You have moms here suggesting their kids get humiliated in front of their peers because they are angry their husband may or may not have done 50% of the work associated with child rearing.

How many of you out earn your husbands?

Yeah, exactly what I thought. I suppose the $45,000 youre not making doesn't count, huh?

I think you are very much over exaggerating the impacts on a kid of something going slightly wrong in their life. No one is suggesting kids be humiliated in front of their peers. We are suggesting that kids be empowered to advocate for their wishes and needs. To experience consequences if they drop the ball. To not rely exclusively on mom and dad to remember everything and do everything. To not create an environment where everything the kid experiences is quietly taken care of behind the scenes. To show them that running a household happily takes work, give and take, occasional sacrifice and optimally, a partnership between their parents. And in a single parent household, to show them that their parent is working hard and they should try to pick up the slack when they can as a member of the household.

That isn't letting my kid be angry because I'm mad at my husband. That is trusting my husband to take care of a task and letting him take responsibility if he dropped the ball. Because he's a grown up. And letting my kid take responsibility for the things on their plate they need our help with.

I earn almost exactly what my DH makes, about 120k.

Kids do not need perfect obstacle free lives. And they should not grow up believing that everything magically happens for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:/\ I'm a female married PP BTW. My husband rises to the expectations set for him. I don't bail him out and therefore he takes them seriously. He's a grown up, I'm a grown up, and when I feel myself getting irritated at him for something like what you've all described. I tell him about it and we reshuffle something and I mentally let something go. Being happy is more important than any load of laundry, milk gallon left on the counter or birthday present unshopped for.

The bolded part is key, and not every spouse will do that. For some people, no matter how they address it, their spouse will always be a freeloader. The process of coming to recognize that, accept it and decide what to do about it for yourself can be a long and painful one. Telling someone who's in the middle of it that it wouldn't be an issue if they just didn't get upset isn't helpful because their spouse isn't your spouse and doesn't respond the same way.

I don't believe that every spouse is in that bucket. Some are, they should get divorced. But I also know people that lose their minds over how their spouse folds sheets. And those people are as responsible for their marital problems as the lazy spouse.

This is evident early in a marriage. People do not become lazy after 10 years of marriage with NO signs beforehand unless there is a mental or health issue.

It's a gradual change. Think death by a thousand cuts/nags. Those first 100 might be bearable but by the time the 1000th rolls around, you're kind of done with it all.

Marriage takes work. To the PP before you I would say, why didn't you have a conversation about the cup? Fight it out about the cup and then your expectations and limits are clear when you get to teething. My DH knew he was doing half the night wake ups when I got pregnant. It was an expectation. And then when I would wake up and he didn't and it was his turn I'd push him and make him get up. Everytime you 'just do it' in a marriage erodes the other party's adulthood and allows them to slowly transform into a teenager. Once you have a teenager, its hard to turn them back into an adult. And I'm not absolving guys who allow this to happen, they are just as culpable in the demise of the marriage. But it is literally impossible to come back from the brink unless both sides understand how they have contributed. And the infantilization of men is SO prevalent across SO many of my friend and relative's marriages.

It is in fact a common bonding moment with women complaining about their hilariously inept husbands. I have a friend say something like, 'ugh David barely even knows how old the kids are'. And everyone goes around with their stories and I say, 'Tom knows how old his kids are, if he didn't we'd have problems.' And they roll their eyes at me like I'm bragging or like I'm lucky or whatever. And I do consider myself lucky because I have an engaged husband. But it was not all luck. I made sure I didn't marry a David. And when my husband starts doing David-like things I call him on it and we have it out right then and there and so instead of having 10 years worth of bitterness built up around why he left his mug in the office, we are literally just discussing whatever it is that happened. That takes work, we work at it every day. I consciously let things go. If he ruins a sweater every once in awhile? Well he does all the laundry. So I'm not going to complain. Just like he doesn't complain if I make a crappy dinner one night. If he empties the dishwasher for me, I don't complain if he puts the colander in the wrong place. I let things go, he lets things go, but if anything begins to accumulate, we address it. And that doesn't happen magically, it happens intentionally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a dad, I simply refuse to believe there are dads out there (in the DC area) that don't do the practices, games, PTCs, field trips, camping trips etc.

I can't recall more than maybe one or two absent dads that weren't deployed. And I have 3 kids that are 14,13, and 9. What's that? Thirty six years of parenting.

This is as false narrative being pushed by angry women.

There is a lot of that here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry this is happening.

Do you have an attorney? What are the arguments that prevented a 50/50 arrangement? Does your work schedule allow the logistics that a 50/50 situation requires?

Yes, I have an attorney. My attorney mentioned that this seems to be the new norm recently with this court pushing dad's into the every other weekend scenario.

The judge basically said that it is clear that I've been a very involved father since birth but that since separation DW has taken on the primary caregiver role and that is the new norm. I did my best to explain to the judge all of the tactics that DW has been using to separate and alienate me from DD in an attempt to get primary custody. The judge seemed to be listening intently but then he went to deliberate and came back with this ruling.

Yes, I work from home and have a flexible schedule to accommodate 50/50.

I hate that. What has happened since a separation (formal or not) started should not be the baseline, the baseline should be what was happening before this happened. I saw someone (the wife in that instance) be totally screwed by her ex who subsequently was an awful parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The response are unbelievable. You have moms here suggesting their kids get humiliated in front of their peers because they are angry their husband may or may not have done 50% of the work associated with child rearing.

How many of you out earn your husbands?

Yeah, exactly what I thought. I suppose the $45,000 youre not making doesn't count, huh?

So you are angry at women for the wage gap. Most women would love to earn as much as their DH, whether or not he does 50% of the unpaid family labor.

I outearned my ex during 90% of our marriage (except a 3 month maternity leave) and continue to our earn him. He always sucked at fulfilling his unpaid responsibilities. If so hadn’t worked and done the majority of the chores, childrearing, etc., he would have suffered, too. Divorcing him allowed me to conserve my resources for the kids. A decade later, I remarried, this time to a man who isn’t looking to be mothered by his wife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a dad, I simply refuse to believe there are dads out there (in the DC area) that don't do the practices, games, PTCs, field trips, camping trips etc.

I can't recall more than maybe one or two absent dads that weren't deployed. And I have 3 kids that are 14,13, and 9. What's that? Thirty six years of parenting.

This is as false narrative being pushed by angry women.

Mine never did but he is a doctor. We split 50/50 but I still do everything for the kids. It is ok because they are almost out of HS.

[Anonymous]

Actions have consequences, OP. Yes, your wife is being difficult and this isn't great for the child. But you knew this would happen, based on your previous post during your in house separation. You should have kept it in your pants until the divorce. It's not difficult.

I also do not buy that your wife asked for the moon and got I. Based on the salary difference and what you say is your availability for custody, this would not happen. You are leaving something out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a dad, I simply refuse to believe there are dads out there (in the DC area) that don't do the practices, games, PTCs, field trips, camping trips etc.

I can't recall more than maybe one or two absent dads that weren't deployed. And I have 3 kids that are 14,13, and 9. What's that? Thirty six years of parenting.

This is as false narrative being pushed by angry women.

So my DH is at a lot of the events but I'm the one who researched the activities, signed kid up, figured out how we'd get him to practices, made sure he had clean clothes for practice packed when we left that morning, that his uniform is ready for games, was on top of when practice was rained out and how we would get him home those days, when games were and that we were at the field on time, when we were supposed to bring the snacks and that we bought food for it and it was packed to go etc

So no, while my husband is spending the same 70minutes standing on the side of the field as I am, he does not get the same credit for for doing the last tiny bit of the effort involved - especially when its the fun part where we are basically socializing with friends - when I did all the work to make it happen x every aspect of our lives

Yes we both work full time

+1.

Things I do to make soccer happen for my kids:
Keep track of emails from the soccer league so I know when registration is happening
Register kids for each season
Make sure their cleats and shin guards still fit and are in good condition, and buy new ones as needed
Make sure one kid's sport glasses get updated lenses as needed
Launder all practice gear/uniform components after practices and games so they're ready for next time
Help kids find missing gear as needed
Fill water bottles for practices and games and wash water bottles after use
Enter all practices and games into the family calendar
Keep track of any scheduling conflicts and arrange carpools as needed (as well as coordinating carpools with others who email me in a bind)
Make sure whomever is driving a kid to a game knows which field they're playing on
Monitor weather and whether practices/games are cancelled due to field conditions
Keep track of rescheduled games
Drive kids to and from some practices and games

Things my husband does to make soccer happen for my kids:
Drive kids to and from some practices and games
Read my emails to him letting him know which field he's supposed to take them to

He's not a bad dad or husband, but I would roll my eyes hard if he ever said he did half the work for soccer practices just because he takes them to half the practices/games. Fortunately he doesn't say stupid shit like that because he actually is a good dad and husband.

You sound really petty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me, an involved dad is someone who shares parenting equally. Now, I realize in some cases, there may be a SAHM, but in cases where both people work full time, it should be equally shared. Otherwise that's not an "involved dad". In most cases of two working parents that I know, the mom is doing the lion's share of child care, emotional labor, etc. And this is true for the moms who I know that are teachers and writers but also physician specialists, big law attorneys, investment bankers, etc. The moms know what's going on at school, who the friends are, what class they need tutoring in.... whatever. I know people are going to come on here saying that their marriage is not like that. Which is great for you. But in my circle of upper income, highly educated friends living in a large city, that's absolutely the case in 90% of the couples. Which is why I question the dad's involvement. And maybe think the judge is just continuing what's been the status quo arrangement from day 0. And FWIW, in my large city (not DC), courts are definitely moving away from 50-50. Two of my friends got divorced in 2018 and both have similar arrangements to OP. Noone had an at fault divorce.

agree on all accounts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a dad, I simply refuse to believe there are dads out there (in the DC area) that don't do the practices, games, PTCs, field trips, camping trips etc.

I can't recall more than maybe one or two absent dads that weren't deployed. And I have 3 kids that are 14,13, and 9. What's that? Thirty six years of parenting.

This is as false narrative being pushed by angry women.

So my DH is at a lot of the events but I'm the one who researched the activities, signed kid up, figured out how we'd get him to practices, made sure he had clean clothes for practice packed when we left that morning, that his uniform is ready for games, was on top of when practice was rained out and how we would get him home those days, when games were and that we were at the field on time, when we were supposed to bring the snacks and that we bought food for it and it was packed to go etc

So no, while my husband is spending the same 70minutes standing on the side of the field as I am, he does not get the same credit for for doing the last tiny bit of the effort involved - especially when its the fun part where we are basically socializing with friends - when I did all the work to make it happen x every aspect of our lives

Yes we both work full time

Exactly.
Dads don't do any managing of the family schedule, they just do tasks. Likely the wife has to even tell him what tasks to do. So all the mental load is on the mother who works 40-50 hours a week at her career and none of it is on the Father. He just looks at the calendar Mom made, Mom signed up for on time, Mom researched, Mom made the carpool for, etc. and feels "involved"

Look at it this way: If someone was seriously incapacitated for a month or two, would the house of cards fall down?

What's easier to replace? The CEO/COO of the family or the task rabbit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a dad, I simply refuse to believe there are dads out there (in the DC area) that don't do the practices, games, PTCs, field trips, camping trips etc.

I can't recall more than maybe one or two absent dads that weren't deployed. And I have 3 kids that are 14,13, and 9. What's that? Thirty six years of parenting.

This is as false narrative being pushed by angry women.

So my DH is at a lot of the events but I'm the one who researched the activities, signed kid up, figured out how we'd get him to practices, made sure he had clean clothes for practice packed when we left that morning, that his uniform is ready for games, was on top of when practice was rained out and how we would get him home those days, when games were and that we were at the field on time, when we were supposed to bring the snacks and that we bought food for it and it was packed to go etc

So no, while my husband is spending the same 70minutes standing on the side of the field as I am, he does not get the same credit for for doing the last tiny bit of the effort involved - especially when its the fun part where we are basically socializing with friends - when I did all the work to make it happen x every aspect of our lives

Yes we both work full time

Exactly.
Dads don't do any managing of the family schedule, they just do tasks. Likely the wife has to even tell him what tasks to do. So all the mental load is on the mother who works 40-50 hours a week at her career and none of it is on the Father. He just looks at the calendar Mom made, Mom signed up for on time, Mom researched, Mom made the carpool for, etc. and feels "involved"

Look at it this way: If someone was seriously incapacitated for a month or two, would the house of cards fall down?

What's easier to replace? The CEO/COO of the family or the task rabbit?

You do realize its far easier to coordinate a few tasks than it is doing them. Sure, mom can take 5 minutes to sign up for an activity but if Dad is driving the child 3 days a week, Dad is doing more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a dad, I simply refuse to believe there are dads out there (in the DC area) that don't do the practices, games, PTCs, field trips, camping trips etc.

I can't recall more than maybe one or two absent dads that weren't deployed. And I have 3 kids that are 14,13, and 9. What's that? Thirty six years of parenting.

This is as false narrative being pushed by angry women.

So my DH is at a lot of the events but I'm the one who researched the activities, signed kid up, figured out how we'd get him to practices, made sure he had clean clothes for practice packed when we left that morning, that his uniform is ready for games, was on top of when practice was rained out and how we would get him home those days, when games were and that we were at the field on time, when we were supposed to bring the snacks and that we bought food for it and it was packed to go etc

So no, while my husband is spending the same 70minutes standing on the side of the field as I am, he does not get the same credit for for doing the last tiny bit of the effort involved - especially when its the fun part where we are basically socializing with friends - when I did all the work to make it happen x every aspect of our lives

Yes we both work full time

+1.

Things I do to make soccer happen for my kids:
Keep track of emails from the soccer league so I know when registration is happening
Register kids for each season
Make sure their cleats and shin guards still fit and are in good condition, and buy new ones as needed
Make sure one kid's sport glasses get updated lenses as needed
Launder all practice gear/uniform components after practices and games so they're ready for next time
Help kids find missing gear as needed
Fill water bottles for practices and games and wash water bottles after use
Enter all practices and games into the family calendar
Keep track of any scheduling conflicts and arrange carpools as needed (as well as coordinating carpools with others who email me in a bind)
Make sure whomever is driving a kid to a game knows which field they're playing on
Monitor weather and whether practices/games are cancelled due to field conditions
Keep track of rescheduled games
Drive kids to and from some practices and games

Things my husband does to make soccer happen for my kids:
Drive kids to and from some practices and games
Read my emails to him letting him know which field he's supposed to take them to

He's not a bad dad or husband, but I would roll my eyes hard if he ever said he did half the work for soccer practices just because he takes them to half the practices/games. Fortunately he doesn't say stupid shit like that because he actually is a good dad and husband.

You sound really petty.

That plus putting great value in small tasks and also unnecessarily inefficient.

My kids know they are responsible for their soccer gear (I'll launder) as well as getting their water bottle ready for games (they are 7 and 9). If they can't find a shin guard, I'll find it. If the kids need new shoes, I'll determine if they can last the season (they usually do) and buy new shoes once a year. I'll take the 5 mins to register them for soccer. I'll take the 2 mins it takes to find out what time and field their games are at. Take the minimal coordination it requires to arrange for transportation if I can't drive myself to pick them up/take them to practice. Again, if you plan well for certain things, none of this kind of stuff should be difficult at all.

DH here, btw.