I'm making a choice that could break my family apart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.

SIL posted on my MILs FB that her favorite daughter in law was giving them another grandchild - "Isn't she wonderful?" For a few minutes MIL thought I was pregnant again event though her son has had a vasectomy.

Her husband is probably pushing her to take up your offer so she is acting out in anger. Even so I'd still curse her out over this one.

No. You wouldn't. She lost an almost full-term baby. Honestly, I would not ever get angry at her over anything ever for the rest of her life. She's suffered enough. Anything she did, I would see through the lens of "I can't imagine how much pain she's in." Now, of course, do not be a surrogate for her, and do not subject yourself to abuse. Remove yourself from the situation. But I would never return her anger.

Losing a child is heartbreaking but it doesn't give her the right to take her anger out on others. If she needs to express her emotions she can do that to her husband or therapist. She needs someone to bring her back down to Earth and quick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well it sounds like you mentioned being a surrogate in the past and they never took you up on it. You should have taken that as a sign that they were not interested. Your SIL does not want you to carry her baby and probably never did. Your BIL was out of line in asking you again after it was clear that his wife was not on board.

No. I never once in the past mentioned to SIL that I wanted to be her surrogate. Nor did I ever once say here that I did, so I'm not sure why you thought that. She did after my second say offhandedly that the next baby I had would probably have to be hers. I just hugged her and handed her her nephew and said "You can have mine all you want until you have your own." So we have been very close over the years until now - as I stated.

[Anonymous]

This is such a horrible situation. I feel for you, OP. I also feel for SIL, but as others have said, immeasurable grief doesn't really give you a pass on being an asshole.

I also agree with others that SIL is trying to gain control when the reality she cannot accept is that she has no control.

You and your husband sound like caring people - obviously, to even suggest this. And you said you've explored the options. I can't imagine any Dr would accept you under these bizarre and restriction conditions. I think you might want to talk to some of the professionals you've dealt with in the past as you've learned more about surrogacy and see if they can help you at this point.

There is no way you can go forward with this level of hostility. But there may be a way forward if it can all be worked out with the guidance of an experienced therapist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.

SIL posted on my MILs FB that her favorite daughter in law was giving them another grandchild - "Isn't she wonderful?" For a few minutes MIL thought I was pregnant again event though her son has had a vasectomy.

Her husband is probably pushing her to take up your offer so she is acting out in anger. Even so I'd still curse her out over this one.

No. You wouldn't. She lost an almost full-term baby. Honestly, I would not ever get angry at her over anything ever for the rest of her life. She's suffered enough. Anything she did, I would see through the lens of "I can't imagine how much pain she's in." Now, of course, do not be a surrogate for her, and do not subject yourself to abuse. Remove yourself from the situation. But I would never return her anger.

Oh jesus really? Plenty of people suffer tragedy and even lose children it does not give them license to be an asshole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people here are being unbelievably harsh on SIL, but as the pp who called her an unstable person in an unstable marriage, I think a distinction needs to be made here. Just because someone is in incredible pain, pain that makes those who love her want to help, doesn't mean that the people who reach out need to take on that person's pain for her--which is what OP would be doing under SIL's restrictions. When the pain is this great that it spills over into everyone else in the family, the other family members really must have good boundaries to keep it from becoming their problem. Because this is not the MIL/FIL's problem or OP's family's problem, despite BIL and SIL's efforts to mitigate their own pain by engaging them in it. This is exactly exactly what therapy is for. I can't imagine that a couple that's been through this much infertility and loss would NOT be familiar with therapy.

While I think what OP has done is laudable, I think she did make one tactical error here, and that's springing the offer on BIL and SIL when all 4 were together. The suggestion should have been made brother to brother and rolled out more slowly "we're considering this but need to check with professionals," weeks later "we talked to a lawyer and think we can do it if XYZ," weeks later "we talked to a doctor and they say it's possible, do you want to get together and discuss how to proceed," etc. This would have given both families time to adjust independently to the idea before coming together to discuss. A lot of mess could likely have been avoided. Hindsight is 20/20 and OP shouldn't beat herself up over this, but honestly, what a shock that must have been for BIL and SIL.

I agree with what you wrote -- except for the suggestion that the BIL/SIL are the ones with the poor boundaries. It is OP who make the huge leap straight into the heart of their marriage & infertility & grief. She's the one who created this whole mess. Did the SIL respond rationally? No, she did not. But until the OP really realizes what she did (whether or not she meant to) she's not going to be able to work her way out of this. Remember, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

No, no I didn't. They were pursuing surrogacy and I offered because it would be much easier and attainable if I did. I won't take the blame for this at all.

OK then just butt out at this point. Even if you refuse to see your role in starting this, surely you can now see that you have a role in ending it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well it sounds like you mentioned being a surrogate in the past and they never took you up on it. You should have taken that as a sign that they were not interested. Your SIL does not want you to carry her baby and probably never did. Your BIL was out of line in asking you again after it was clear that his wife was not on board.

No. I never once in the past mentioned to SIL that I wanted to be her surrogate. Nor did I ever once say here that I did, so I'm not sure why you thought that. She did after my second say offhandedly that the next baby I had would probably have to be hers. I just hugged her and handed her her nephew and said "You can have mine all you want until you have your own." So we have been very close over the years until now - as I stated.

From your OP:

"Over the past few years I've spun the idea of offering to be her surrogate if it ever came to that."

So who were you spinning this idea too?

[Anonymous]

I think sil hates the entire family now` you, your kids, your husband, in laws. time to backup and give them room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.

SIL posted on my MILs FB that her favorite daughter in law was giving them another grandchild - "Isn't she wonderful?" For a few minutes MIL thought I was pregnant again event though her son has had a vasectomy.

Her husband is probably pushing her to take up your offer so she is acting out in anger. Even so I'd still curse her out over this one.

No. You wouldn't. She lost an almost full-term baby. Honestly, I would not ever get angry at her over anything ever for the rest of her life. She's suffered enough. Anything she did, I would see through the lens of "I can't imagine how much pain she's in." Now, of course, do not be a surrogate for her, and do not subject yourself to abuse. Remove yourself from the situation. But I would never return her anger.

Oh jesus really? Plenty of people suffer tragedy and even lose children it does not give them license to be an asshole.

Right. I don't think anyone is saying that the SIL has license to be an asshole. Just that she is the one going through an unimaginably painful situation, not the OP, and it is much less stable and more complicated than OP might have thought.

Now that OP knows, she needs to act accordingly. Maybe her first offer truly was out of naïve innocence and desire to help. But now it's clear that this issue is much thornier than she knew, and she needs to extricate herself from the situation as cleanly and calmly as possible - not add to the drama by trying to extract some sort of apology from the SIL or whatever, or insisting on family therapy, or pressing on with trying to make the surrogacy happen, or starting to blame the SIL for not accepting her offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people here are being unbelievably harsh on SIL, but as the pp who called her an unstable person in an unstable marriage, I think a distinction needs to be made here. Just because someone is in incredible pain, pain that makes those who love her want to help, doesn't mean that the people who reach out need to take on that person's pain for her--which is what OP would be doing under SIL's restrictions. When the pain is this great that it spills over into everyone else in the family, the other family members really must have good boundaries to keep it from becoming their problem. Because this is not the MIL/FIL's problem or OP's family's problem, despite BIL and SIL's efforts to mitigate their own pain by engaging them in it. This is exactly exactly what therapy is for. I can't imagine that a couple that's been through this much infertility and loss would NOT be familiar with therapy.

While I think what OP has done is laudable, I think she did make one tactical error here, and that's springing the offer on BIL and SIL when all 4 were together. The suggestion should have been made brother to brother and rolled out more slowly "we're considering this but need to check with professionals," weeks later "we talked to a lawyer and think we can do it if XYZ," weeks later "we talked to a doctor and they say it's possible, do you want to get together and discuss how to proceed," etc. This would have given both families time to adjust independently to the idea before coming together to discuss. A lot of mess could likely have been avoided. Hindsight is 20/20 and OP shouldn't beat herself up over this, but honestly, what a shock that must have been for BIL and SIL.

I agree with what you wrote -- except for the suggestion that the BIL/SIL are the ones with the poor boundaries. It is OP who make the huge leap straight into the heart of their marriage & infertility & grief. She's the one who created this whole mess. Did the SIL respond rationally? No, she did not. But until the OP really realizes what she did (whether or not she meant to) she's not going to be able to work her way out of this. Remember, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

No, no I didn't. They were pursuing surrogacy and I offered because it would be much easier and attainable if I did. I won't take the blame for this at all.

OK then just butt out at this point. Even if you refuse to see your role in starting this, surely you can now see that you have a role in ending it.

I'm emotional today so maybe I am being a glutton for punishment. How exactly did I cause this? They need a surrogate and cannot afford one, we made a very open ended offer and stated that we would understand and support them no matter what they chose. How am I the bad guy in this? I don't want to be pregnant again. I am done having babies. I wanted to do this because we are family and family helps each other. She desperately wants a child, she desperately wants to be able to afford a surrogate. She and I were extremely close before this happened, fuck me for trying to help right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well it sounds like you mentioned being a surrogate in the past and they never took you up on it. You should have taken that as a sign that they were not interested. Your SIL does not want you to carry her baby and probably never did. Your BIL was out of line in asking you again after it was clear that his wife was not on board.

No. I never once in the past mentioned to SIL that I wanted to be her surrogate. Nor did I ever once say here that I did, so I'm not sure why you thought that. She did after my second say offhandedly that the next baby I had would probably have to be hers. I just hugged her and handed her her nephew and said "You can have mine all you want until you have your own." So we have been very close over the years until now - as I stated.

From your OP:

"Over the past few years I've spun the idea of offering to be her surrogate if it ever came to that."

So who were you spinning this idea too?

Um...what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well it sounds like you mentioned being a surrogate in the past and they never took you up on it. You should have taken that as a sign that they were not interested. Your SIL does not want you to carry her baby and probably never did. Your BIL was out of line in asking you again after it was clear that his wife was not on board.

No. I never once in the past mentioned to SIL that I wanted to be her surrogate. Nor did I ever once say here that I did, so I'm not sure why you thought that. She did after my second say offhandedly that the next baby I had would probably have to be hers. I just hugged her and handed her her nephew and said "You can have mine all you want until you have your own." So we have been very close over the years until now - as I stated.

From your OP:

"Over the past few years I've spun the idea of offering to be her surrogate if it ever came to that."

So who were you spinning this idea too?

Um...what?

i think she meant the idea was spinning around in her head.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all the responses.

OP, I think you had good intentions but went about it poorly.

I think the couple is in serious, deep trouble - marriage struggles, infertility struggles, and money struggles will create a nightmare. You inserted yourself into the thick of someone else's nightmare without realizing what you were doing.

No one should enter into a surrogacy relationship without extensive legal and emotional counseling. No reputable clinic will allow a surrogacy to proceed without those things.

No one should presume to understand the extent of emotions experienced during a struggle with infertility - least of all someone who hasn't experienced it personally.

I think you, and the entire family, need to back WAAAAY off. Let the couple know that you meant the offer genuinely but you realize it went wrong somewhere and you're really sorry to have added any pain. (Yes, I'm saying you should apologize. Everyone probably owes an apology here but it can start with you.)

Then let it be. Let them sort out their marriage and all the other myriad challenges they are facing. Don't judge, don't invade, support if asked, and let it be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.

SIL posted on my MILs FB that her favorite daughter in law was giving them another grandchild - "Isn't she wonderful?" For a few minutes MIL thought I was pregnant again event though her son has had a vasectomy.

Her husband is probably pushing her to take up your offer so she is acting out in anger. Even so I'd still curse her out over this one.

No. You wouldn't. She lost an almost full-term baby. Honestly, I would not ever get angry at her over anything ever for the rest of her life. She's suffered enough. Anything she did, I would see through the lens of "I can't imagine how much pain she's in." Now, of course, do not be a surrogate for her, and do not subject yourself to abuse. Remove yourself from the situation. But I would never return her anger.

Oh jesus really? Plenty of people suffer tragedy and even lose children it does not give them license to be an asshole.

Right. I don't think anyone is saying that the SIL has license to be an asshole. Just that she is the one going through an unimaginably painful situation, not the OP, and it is much less stable and more complicated than OP might have thought.

Now that OP knows, she needs to act accordingly. Maybe her first offer truly was out of naïve innocence and desire to help. But now it's clear that this issue is much thornier than she knew, and she needs to extricate herself from the situation as cleanly and calmly as possible - not add to the drama by trying to extract some sort of apology from the SIL or whatever, or insisting on family therapy, or pressing on with trying to make the surrogacy happen, or starting to blame the SIL for not accepting her offer.

OP here. I am not doing any of that and I haven't said I was doing any of it.

I find it so bizarre here that offering to be a surrogate for someone who wants and needs a surrogate is a bad thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.

SIL posted on my MILs FB that her favorite daughter in law was giving them another grandchild - "Isn't she wonderful?" For a few minutes MIL thought I was pregnant again event though her son has had a vasectomy.

Her husband is probably pushing her to take up your offer so she is acting out in anger. Even so I'd still curse her out over this one.

No. You wouldn't. She lost an almost full-term baby. Honestly, I would not ever get angry at her over anything ever for the rest of her life. She's suffered enough. Anything she did, I would see through the lens of "I can't imagine how much pain she's in." Now, of course, do not be a surrogate for her, and do not subject yourself to abuse. Remove yourself from the situation. But I would never return her anger.

Losing a child is heartbreaking but it doesn't give her the right to take her anger out on others. If she needs to express her emotions she can do that to her husband or therapist. She needs someone to bring her back down to Earth and quick.

No one said it gives her the right, but responding in anger isn't going to "bring her back down to Earth and quick". She's basically crazed with pain and grief. You can yell at her all you want, but that's not going to do anything except pile on. Forgive, forgive, forgive. Give space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well it sounds like you mentioned being a surrogate in the past and they never took you up on it. You should have taken that as a sign that they were not interested. Your SIL does not want you to carry her baby and probably never did. Your BIL was out of line in asking you again after it was clear that his wife was not on board.

No. I never once in the past mentioned to SIL that I wanted to be her surrogate. Nor did I ever once say here that I did, so I'm not sure why you thought that. She did after my second say offhandedly that the next baby I had would probably have to be hers. I just hugged her and handed her her nephew and said "You can have mine all you want until you have your own." So we have been very close over the years until now - as I stated.

From your OP:

"Over the past few years I've spun the idea of offering to be her surrogate if it ever came to that."

So who were you spinning this idea too?

OP: In my own mind and heart. Then after we loaned them another $10000 my DH (please be kind here) said "You know if you just had the baby for them it would be cheaper for us." That started our conversation about it, where I admitted to him the thought had crossed my mind. Then we saw our lawyer, my obgyn and a fertility specialist to see if this was even possible because we didn't want to offer and have it not be possible causing them another heartbreak.