I'm making a choice that could break my family apart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SIL is in pain. Pain makes people selfish. Lashing out at you is her choice. Hold her accountable - i.e., DON'T give her a pass for her actions just because she is in pain. Come on people, quit making excuses for the SIL.

+1. I'm really taken aback by some of the PP's efforts to portray the SIL as the victim here. A good friend suffered through some of the same struggles as this SIL, and she did not allow it to turn her into a cruel insanely jealous person. Everyone copes with loss differently, but that does not excuse SIL's behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your BIL did not discuss this with his wife ahead of time. Surrogacy is an emotional topic for some. My DH and BIL also made an insuation about me being a surrrogate for my SIL and she seemed very embarrassed and pissed when they made the comment about me carrying a baby for her. But there was no big blow out. It would be better if it were your SILs idea. She may want a child but maybe surrogacy is not something she is interested in. It sounds like BIL really wants a child though so maybe she feels pressured to produce a child to keep the marriage together. Either way you and your DH need to back away now and not further meddle in their fertility issues.

Reading comprehension would help so much in this thread. OP has stated several times that SIL/BIL are seeking surrogacy and cannot afford it because other treatments have depleted their savings.

Op never stated that. She only stated they couldn't afford surrogacy. This surrogacy idea seems like something the BIL is pushing which is probably why SIL flipped out.

Yeah, I get the feeling BIL is comfortable with surrogacy and SIL is not, but since they couldn't afford it anyhow, it wasn't something they fought about.

Once OP made the offer, they had to have that fight. SIL's over-the-top demands may be a way to sabotage the process because she really, really wants to carry her child herself. And if she does have to use a surrogate, I'm sure she'd rather it be someone she never needs to see again, versus someone she already resents and will have to look at across the table at family gatherings.

(I think SIL's behavior is inexcusable, but I understand her POV. I have children both through adoption and that I carried. There's no difference in how much I love my kids, but I certainly got something -- not so much as a parent, but as a woman -- from the experience of pregnancy & childbirth that I did not get from the experience of adoption.)

OP, I don't think you should take the offer off the table completely, but I think you should absolutely say that you can't meet SIL's demands. You might also say you get the impression SIL is conflicted, and you don't feel comfortable being their surrogate until BIL & SIL are sure they're on the same page, and even then you'd want to work with a mediator or other counselor to come up with a surrogacy agreement that is fair and agreeable to all parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry but she sounds like a horrible person and I truly believe her infertility is the universe's way of protecting her future children from having her as a mother. Walk away and don't look back.

OP's SIL sounds batshit.

But you sound like a terrible human being. Good luck with your just-world hypothesis. I hope you realize someday how deluded and self-serving it is.

Yeah no, I really believe it's the universe. SIL sounds awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your BIL did not discuss this with his wife ahead of time. Surrogacy is an emotional topic for some. My DH and BIL also made an insuation about me being a surrrogate for my SIL and she seemed very embarrassed and pissed when they made the comment about me carrying a baby for her. But there was no big blow out. It would be better if it were your SILs idea. She may want a child but maybe surrogacy is not something she is interested in. It sounds like BIL really wants a child though so maybe she feels pressured to produce a child to keep the marriage together. Either way you and your DH need to back away now and not further meddle in their fertility issues.

Reading comprehension would help so much in this thread. OP has stated several times that SIL/BIL are seeking surrogacy and cannot afford it because other treatments have depleted their savings.

Op never stated that. She only stated they couldn't afford surrogacy. This surrogacy idea seems like something the BIL is pushing which is probably why SIL flipped out.

OP here. Nothing has changed. MIL/FIL know now. DH is going to try to talk with his brother and parents tonight. SIL is being passive aggressive on social media. Thats the update.

To clear the above up, they were seeking surrogacy and I'm sure I did indeed state that a few times. They are in fact struggling to pay for it so that was another reason we were happy to offer my being a gestational carrier. BIL was at the point where he either wanted to be child free and let nature take its course or adopt, he was tapped out emotionally, physically and financially. He was worried about now going through it all again with a surrogate if they could even afford it and SIL was pushing for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people here are being unbelievably harsh on SIL, but as the pp who called her an unstable person in an unstable marriage, I think a distinction needs to be made here. Just because someone is in incredible pain, pain that makes those who love her want to help, doesn't mean that the people who reach out need to take on that person's pain for her--which is what OP would be doing under SIL's restrictions. When the pain is this great that it spills over into everyone else in the family, the other family members really must have good boundaries to keep it from becoming their problem. Because this is not the MIL/FIL's problem or OP's family's problem, despite BIL and SIL's efforts to mitigate their own pain by engaging them in it. This is exactly exactly what therapy is for. I can't imagine that a couple that's been through this much infertility and loss would NOT be familiar with therapy.

While I think what OP has done is laudable, I think she did make one tactical error here, and that's springing the offer on BIL and SIL when all 4 were together. The suggestion should have been made brother to brother and rolled out more slowly "we're considering this but need to check with professionals," weeks later "we talked to a lawyer and think we can do it if XYZ," weeks later "we talked to a doctor and they say it's possible, do you want to get together and discuss how to proceed," etc. This would have given both families time to adjust independently to the idea before coming together to discuss. A lot of mess could likely have been avoided. Hindsight is 20/20 and OP shouldn't beat herself up over this, but honestly, what a shock that must have been for BIL and SIL.

I agree with what you wrote -- except for the suggestion that the BIL/SIL are the ones with the poor boundaries. It is OP who make the huge leap straight into the heart of their marriage & infertility & grief. She's the one who created this whole mess. Did the SIL respond rationally? No, she did not. But until the OP really realizes what she did (whether or not she meant to) she's not going to be able to work her way out of this. Remember, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

No, no I didn't. They were pursuing surrogacy and I offered because it would be much easier and attainable if I did. I won't take the blame for this at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what to say except:

1. She does not appear to be in a position to be a good mother
2. She does not appear to be in a marriage stable enough to bring a child into
3. She does not appear to be stable enough to handle having you as a surrogate

You need to back out,
No guilt.
This is not about you, she is obviously struggling and needs help

Completely agree. Do not give this woman a child! Don't even think about what you would go through. Think of what this child would go through with her for a mother. If your BIL really wants a kid, he needs to take responsibility and find a healthier person to be that child's mother. But don't participate in bringing a child into a miserable hellish family.

[Anonymous]

Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My SIL (husband's brother's wife) has spent the past 9 years dealing with infertility. Infertility that has involved some horrible loss, strain on her marriage and a scary depletion of finances. They are down to adoption or surrogate as their choices to have children. She and I have been close over the past 12 years that we have known each other. When she was first dealing with infertility she was very open about her issues then I noticed she'd talk about it less and less until we rarely talked about it at all. I knew about what was going on because DH's brother would tell him. They also suffered through two fairly late losses and one 34 week stillborn. Over the past few years I've spun the idea of offering to be her surrogate if it ever came to that. My youngest (I have and wanted four) is 7 months now and we are done having children. So my husband and I spoke with our lawyer and we spoke with a fertility specialist. We wanted to be sure we could and we wanted to before we offered.

Sounds like you assumed your SIL would want to use a surrogate and that it was mostly all your idea.

OP again this is getting exhausting. SIL wanted to use a surrogate and was actively looking for one but they were not going to be able to afford one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:08 again. I actually think that the terms were purposely made so that OP would turn them down. SIL doesn't want OP to be her surrogate but BIL does. What better way to avoid the issue by making the terms so bizarre that OP will have to say no?

Totally agree.

100% agree. She doesn't want OP to be the surrogate. BIL does. BIL said "are there any circumstances under which you would accept this" and SIL came up with terms that no one could live by. If you do this, then know that you are doing it despite SIL not actually wanting you to, OP. She's handling this incredibly poorly, but you have clearer eyes here. Make the right call -- don't do it.
I will say that I disagree with everyone saying SIL shouldn't be a mother because she's too damaged. SIL had a stillbirth and years of IF. I went through years of IF and I can say it can make you temporarily crazy. If she was a good person before all this, she might be okay once the IF phase of life passes. I wouldn't judge her harshly. I'd forgive her completely. But I would not be a surrogate. No way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.

SIL posted on my MILs FB that her favorite daughter in law was giving them another grandchild - "Isn't she wonderful?" For a few minutes MIL thought I was pregnant again event though her son has had a vasectomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your BIL did not discuss this with his wife ahead of time. Surrogacy is an emotional topic for some. My DH and BIL also made an insuation about me being a surrrogate for my SIL and she seemed very embarrassed and pissed when they made the comment about me carrying a baby for her. But there was no big blow out. It would be better if it were your SILs idea. She may want a child but maybe surrogacy is not something she is interested in. It sounds like BIL really wants a child though so maybe she feels pressured to produce a child to keep the marriage together. Either way you and your DH need to back away now and not further meddle in their fertility issues.

Reading comprehension would help so much in this thread. OP has stated several times that SIL/BIL are seeking surrogacy and cannot afford it because other treatments have depleted their savings.

Op never stated that. She only stated they couldn't afford surrogacy. This surrogacy idea seems like something the BIL is pushing which is probably why SIL flipped out.

OP here. Nothing has changed. MIL/FIL know now. DH is going to try to talk with his brother and parents tonight. SIL is being passive aggressive on social media. Thats the update.

To clear the above up, they were seeking surrogacy and I'm sure I did indeed state that a few times. They are in fact struggling to pay for it so that was another reason we were happy to offer my being a gestational carrier. BIL was at the point where he either wanted to be child free and let nature take its course or adopt, he was tapped out emotionally, physically and financially. He was worried about now going through it all again with a surrogate if they could even afford it and SIL was pushing for it.

Well it sounds like you mentioned being a surrogate in the past and they never took you up on it. You should have taken that as a sign that they were not interested. Your SIL does not want you to carry her baby and probably never did. Your BIL was out of line in asking you again after it was clear that his wife was not on board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.

SIL posted on my MILs FB that her favorite daughter in law was giving them another grandchild - "Isn't she wonderful?" For a few minutes MIL thought I was pregnant again event though her son has had a vasectomy.

Oh dear. This SIL is so beyond rational now. She's in so much pain and is so mad at the world, and now you're right in the middle of all of her pain and anger. You're going to take major shit from her for backing out, but you have to back out.

[Anonymous]

Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.


SIL posted on my MILs FB that her favorite daughter in law was giving them another grandchild - "Isn't she wonderful?" For a few minutes MIL thought I was pregnant again event though her son has had a vasectomy.

I would just not be in contact with either SIL or BIL for a while, and have DH tell BIL that it doesn't seem like this is working out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.

SIL posted on my MILs FB that her favorite daughter in law was giving them another grandchild - "Isn't she wonderful?" For a few minutes MIL thought I was pregnant again event though her son has had a vasectomy.

Her husband is probably pushing her to take up your offer so she is acting out in anger. Even so I'd still curse her out over this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who told MIL/FIL? That sounds messy. What could SIL possibly say on social media that would make anyone have sympathy for her??? She sounds like an ungrateful shrew.

SIL posted on my MILs FB that her favorite daughter in law was giving them another grandchild - "Isn't she wonderful?" For a few minutes MIL thought I was pregnant again event though her son has had a vasectomy.

Her husband is probably pushing her to take up your offer so she is acting out in anger. Even so I'd still curse her out over this one.

No. You wouldn't. She lost an almost full-term baby. Honestly, I would not ever get angry at her over anything ever for the rest of her life. She's suffered enough. Anything she did, I would see through the lens of "I can't imagine how much pain she's in." Now, of course, do not be a surrogate for her, and do not subject yourself to abuse. Remove yourself from the situation. But I would never return her anger.