I'm making a choice that could break my family apart.

[Anonymous]

NP: Haven't read any comments (24 pages, wow!). OP, it's simple: RUN AWAY RUN VERY FAR AWAY VERY FAST!!!

This was a big deal to offer, you and your DH did it the right way by doing your homework and trying to weigh everything that was predictable. But your SIL came with a totally UNpredictable angle to this: she's blaming you for not already having a kid, she's bitter, and she is saying "You want this".

THAT IS A GAME CHANGER.

Your DH and you had the best intentions, but carrying a baby for someone else is one of the MOST personal and - for lack of a better word - all consuming favors you can do for someone. If SIL is hell bent on being miserable and blaming you and your DH and your in-laws for it, then it's ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE. Don't do it.

You and your DH should tell them that given the new information re: how SIL really feels about you and this whole idea, including her thinking your doing it because you want to, as opposed to because you thought it was the right thing to do - and this long list of demands that borders on psychotic - that the best thing for all involved is for you and your DH (and hopefully your in-laws) to do what you can to support them with someone else as a surrogate. THat's it, it's that simple.

You don't understand... this is going to get so much worse. You will be carrying their BABY. Whatever unresolved, bitter feelings SIL has, they're going to be transferred onto you, and then onto this baby. As this kid grows up, everything she doesn't like about the child is going to get blamed on you and how you carried the baby. It's just asking for a ridiculously messy, personal, horrible ENTWINED situation.

You are NOT responsible for your SIL's reaction. She and her DH are going through a heck of a time, but honestly you and your DH and this generous act you were willing to do, it's not going to fix them. I hate to say it, but it is unfair to you to put you through 9+ months of this venom.

SIL is how she is, most likely not just because of how trying this has been, but because of plenty of dynamics that came long before she tried to get pregnant. Is she in counseling for all the grief her and DH have been through? Have they gone to couples counseling? What have they done to relieve some of the stress and heal the hurt they've been through? I don't think you should go any further in this whole thing, but I feel that X1,000 if they've had no healing or counseling. They have their own stuff to deal with first, they don't sound ready at all to be parents. That poor baby would come into a world of un-fulfillable expectations... they need some work on themselves first.

[Anonymous]

OP you are in the right. You should distance yourself from sister in law. toxic. You need to look after your own house. So sorry you are going through this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow there are some mean bitter ass bitches in this thread who want to bring a good person down to make themselves feel better about their miserable lives.

Seriously. NP to this thread, but I sincerely hope OP isn't still around, reading all of these bitter ass trolls who probably have never even considered doing something kind and considerate for a person they love.

Stay strong OP and stick to your guns on this one. I hope your SIL gets some therapy and begins to heal from all of tragic losses, but you can't help her anymore.

[Anonymous]

OP,
Please try to be available as a friend to your SIL. It sounds like her whole world is crumbling right now. Her anger at you was misplaced, but none of us know the stress she is under with her infertility, DH, and marriage.

Protect yourself, but work hard to find forgiveness.

Good luck to all of you. It sounds like there is a truly loving family at the root of all this. Cherish and nurture that love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here: I'd like to update those of you who are invested.

It has been a rough 24 hours or so. First I would like to say that I am really taken back by some of the posts here making assumptions about my thoughts, feelings and actions. My sister-in-law and I were very close and spent as much time together as we could. We were in communication every day. With their continued infertility I became more and more aware of what I said about being pregnant. I also did my best to never complain about anything relating to parenting. I always let her tell me as much or as little as she wanted and many times I was with her through some terrible nights. She has never once expressed outward resentment towards me. On my recent birthday she even expressed to me in a card how I was her dearest friend and we were not inlaws but truly sisters. While I appreciate the fierce defense of my SIL there are other people with feelings in this situation. I do not understand why I should not have had four children, this is what my DH and I wanted for our lives.

As much as many of you wish to make me out to be a monster, I am sorry to disappoint you.

My sister-in-law needs help and hopefully she is going to get it. I was hurt and shocked and yes, angry when I wrote my OP. I've spent days going through a roller coaster of emotions. I cannot say that I have been absolutely perfect over these twelve years. I have a right to be pregnant, to have showers and announcements. My husband has a right to be proud of his children. Their uncle has a right to spend time with them. Their grandparents have a right to spoil them. The longer SIL and BIL were infertile the more the rest of us did walk on eggshells and try our best to be sensitive, but we too have lives, emotions, hardships and joy.

First allow me to make a few things clear.

The stillborn and losses were all 7-9 years ago. I don't know why some of you believe I would offer surrogacy to a woman who had just lost a child with a baby bouncing on my hip out of the blue. Why even think that? Why does your mind go to the worst about my husband and I when all we were trying to do was help our family in a time of need.

I did not do this to be a hero or a savior. I did this because my SIL and BIL are out of options. I didn't jump into this lightly. My husband and I went through all the proper steps and channels before even broaching the subject with SIL and BIL. I asked the lawyer who specializes in agreements such as these how to offer, I was thinking of putting it into a letter and we were advised to do it as a family. This seemed perfect as my husband's family is very close and he and his brother are best of friends. BIL had confided in my DH that SIL would only consider surrogacy and not adoption but they did not really have the finances for either. She was spending all day looking for ways to pay for surrogacy. My husband and I considered paying for it for them outright, hindsight I wish we had - though I am sure that would have been wrong to some of you too. This seemed like a win all around. Trust me, I didn't want to be pregnant again, especially not so soon and especially with so much medical intervention. If I wanted to be a savior I would have written a check. I was considering the pain of a surrogate who backed out, or lived far away or long waiting lists.

My DH and I were well prepared they might say no. We were prepared that this would be a roller coaster ride of emotions. Remember I would be carrying a child for 40 weeks and then handing that baby over after birthing him/her. What we were not prepared for was someone who considered me her best friend and sister to snap and suddenly blame me for everything real or imagined. We certainly were not prepared for the next day and her list of demands or her social media spree. We were not prepared for the absolute cruelty and pain she caused my MIL. She said equally nasty things to her to the point that my MIL was hysterically crying and out of breath.

None of this, none would have been a part of my SILs character if you had asked me about her a week ago.

My husband met with his parents and brother last night because his brother asked them to. My BIL wants his wife to get therapy and even some medical intervention. He also wants a separation for now. He explained that I was on the top of their list to ask about surrogacy, the list also included my SILs adult niece and a cousin. He explained that SIL now wants to go through with the surrogacy and is willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen. My husband refused and said there was no way emotionally we could at this time. BIL agreed. BIL admitted that he has wanted out of the marriage for a while, as it has taken a terrible toll on him as well - he too has lost children, and that this was the last straw. He was grateful that the flood gates had finally broken open because he was able to say things he had held inside. Please remember, he desperately wants children and wants to be young enough to enjoy them for a long time and he is trapped in the hell of infertility just as she is.

SIL called me and broke my heart. She apologized, blamed it on everything under the sun and begged me to be her surrogate. I used a lot of the advice from this thread to navigate the conversation as delicately and compassionately as I could. It was agonizing to tell her I thought she needed to get help for her grief before even considering surrogacy. Surrogacy with a stranger. The call didn't end well and I will never be able to get her sorrow out of my head.

My BIL is staying with his parents for now. SIL is staying in their home though he is worried she will head back to arizona where grew up and her family is, she isn't close with many of them. He has made appointments for her to get the help she needs right away. I will be there for her as much as I can, but I am emotionally tapped out and still a bit wounded from this experience. I think we both need distance, but I would never turn her away. I love her like a sister I never had. My DH is of course focused on his brother and mother.

I want to thank DCUM for being their for me to vent this to. Sometimes you need an outside perspective to really see clearly. Even the cruel ones, even the ones that were mean for the sake of being mean.

Say what you want DCUM, but this post just made me cry. I'm so, so sorry for your SIL, your BIL and all of the pain and grief they have experienced over the years. The way you described your SIL begging you to reconsider the surrogacy cracked me, and I'm a mean, bitter bitch. This is just so unfair, all around.

In the end, you and your husband are good people who tried to do a wonderful thing, and I know in my gut that your BIL and SIL are wonderful people too, but she must get therapy and try to prepare for the fact that she might not ever be a mother in the exact way she wants.

I am really rooting for your entire family OP and I wish all of you luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I give up OP. You refuse to see your role in precipitating this, whether intentional or not. Hopefully your SIL will get far far away from you and her clueless DH and heal.

You have no soul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Emotionally tone deaf. OP poked a bear and got bit. Sucks for OP, but don't go around poking bears.

So OP was supposed to assume a family member whom is also her dear friend, that needed a surrogate but could not afford it would react like this? You are way off.

Damn from this thread it seems a lot of people have no concept of family or selflessness.

Sad.

She should have assumed that there was the possibility of an extreme emotional reaction, yes. She already knew that there was serious marital discord about adoption, and that the SIL had had a very emotional reaction before surrounding these issues. I also find it VERY difficult to believe that OP had no idea that the SIL harbored jealous/hurt feelings about her. And by asking this couple together in public (when she KNEW they had had serious discord about adoption already) she was creating a really difficult situation between the couple - which was borne out when the BIL immediately said yes, and the SIL immediately said no. And it's also unclear why OP and her DH continued this for even a single second once they realized that the SIL had doubts, and instead seemed to be playing along with the BIL who wanted to strong-arm the SIL into it.

You are so dumb where can I start? Her and sil were close, why would they be if sil was outwardly jealous? this would be bil's baby too of course he should be there when asking. She and her dh left once sil refused. Sil reached out and apologized the next day, of course op spoke with her, should she have slammed the door on her?

No, OP kept on pressing on even when it was apparent that SIL DID NOT WANT this and was flipping out. Instead of believing SIL when she said no the first time, OP says "I knew they would need time to process the offer." And then when SIL came the next day with the list of obviously untenable demands, instead of saying "this isn't going to work" OP said "let me talk to my DH." And at the point of writing this post, OP was STILL refusing to just put an end to the situation.

+1 OP is tone deaf to put it mildly. And SIL, while in the midst of grieving her dead baby (OPs new baby lived while SIL baby died, ouch), has to deal with a very pushy "offer" SIL response was since you can't hear me/ understand my point of view, here is a list of demands that even you will understand that I mean NO. I think the SIL has heard enough about OPs obvious fertility that she finally exploded. I wonder how many times SIL had to hear the dear little baby stories from OP. This family has issues, not just the SIL.

New to responding to this part of the conversation - whoa are you last two projecting. Like, projecting to massive degrees! You seem to totally ignore or forget that on the other end, OP's DH's brother is begging them to do this. Last I checked, the wife was not the single decision-maker in a marriage. Of course we women experience grief (especially the grief of miscarriages) more deeply than most men, just because it's our bodies, but that doesn't mean BIL's immense desire to have this happen is a non-factor.

You two PPs have your own issues, and whatever they are, you are over-identifying with SIL and making tremendous assumptions about how OP and her DH have handled their pregnancies and kids. That is exactly why it's clear: you have your own issues with this and you're projecting tons onto OP. Which does not make the things you're assuming true by a long shot.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the update, OP. What a terrible situation. I think that your offer was very generous and I also think that the actions you are taking are the right ones. I hope your SIL gets help since she is clearly in a lot of pain. This thread has been very eye opening for me since I have a very good friend who is struggling with secondary infertility. I was actually just talking with my DH a week ago about whether I would consider being a surrogate for her. She's not at that point yet, but may be in the next year or so. This thread has given me a lot to think about. I wish you and everyone in your family well. This is just a heartbreaking situation.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the update OP. You did right, all the way around. The poster(s) criticizing you are way off.

Good luck to all of you.

[Anonymous]

Can someone point me to where OP reports what the SIL said to the MIL? Somehow I missed it.

OP, I'm sorry for everyone involved. I wish your BIL wasn't separating from your SIL now. She needs therapy and support.

[Anonymous]

I'm not defending SIL's behavior, but I will say that infertility does crazy things to a person (well, to some people). I myself sent two somewhat scathing emails to two very old friends about things they were saying on facebook regarding their children (two unrelated people). We now have a 3yo son, and looking back I know for certain I would have handled those situations completely differently, and more kindly, if I hadn't been going through infertility at the time. I have no explanation or logic to offer, but when I read about OP's SIL, I just think Jesus, why the fuck is infertility so crazy-making for some of us????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP: Haven't read any comments (24 pages, wow!). OP, it's simple: RUN AWAY RUN VERY FAR AWAY VERY FAST!!!

This was a big deal to offer, you and your DH did it the right way by doing your homework and trying to weigh everything that was predictable. But your SIL came with a totally UNpredictable angle to this: she's blaming you for not already having a kid, she's bitter, and she is saying "You want this".

THAT IS A GAME CHANGER.

Your DH and you had the best intentions, but carrying a baby for someone else is one of the MOST personal and - for lack of a better word - all consuming favors you can do for someone. If SIL is hell bent on being miserable and blaming you and your DH and your in-laws for it, then it's ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE. Don't do it.

You and your DH should tell them that given the new information re: how SIL really feels about you and this whole idea, including her thinking your doing it because you want to, as opposed to because you thought it was the right thing to do - and this long list of demands that borders on psychotic - that the best thing for all involved is for you and your DH (and hopefully your in-laws) to do what you can to support them with someone else as a surrogate. THat's it, it's that simple.

You don't understand... this is going to get so much worse. You will be carrying their BABY. Whatever unresolved, bitter feelings SIL has, they're going to be transferred onto you, and then onto this baby. As this kid grows up, everything she doesn't like about the child is going to get blamed on you and how you carried the baby. It's just asking for a ridiculously messy, personal, horrible ENTWINED situation.

You are NOT responsible for your SIL's reaction. She and her DH are going through a heck of a time, but honestly you and your DH and this generous act you were willing to do, it's not going to fix them. I hate to say it, but it is unfair to you to put you through 9+ months of this venom.

SIL is how she is, most likely not just because of how trying this has been, but because of plenty of dynamics that came long before she tried to get pregnant. Is she in counseling for all the grief her and DH have been through? Have they gone to couples counseling? What have they done to relieve some of the stress and heal the hurt they've been through? I don't think you should go any further in this whole thing, but I feel that X1,000 if they've had no healing or counseling. They have their own stuff to deal with first, they don't sound ready at all to be parents. That poor baby would come into a world of un-fulfillable expectations... they need some work on themselves first.

Hi OP, I'm the PP above, and I just read your update. I'm both sad and not surprised to see that much of what I said is true. But bravo to your BIL for insisting that SIL get therapy. But is he also going to go? Totally understand if he goes on his own so he can deal with all of his own stuff, but it would seem... to only be blaming SIL if he doesn't also acknowledge he's got healing and work to do.

You and your DH are totally right to stay out of it.

And as far as your SIL's heartbreaking conversation and begging you to go through with it... sad to say, she's trying to save her marriage with that. Nothing has changed in terms of she's still holding a tremendous amount of bitterness about something, and it hasn't gone away. There's just a more urgent issue here, and we can all adapt or make promises when we feel like our foundation is threatened.

I feel for your SIL. She's got a LOT to sort through it sounds like, and hardest of all, she doesn't seem to want to do it or ready to do it. But do it she must if she wants to get past this pain.

As hard as that conversation was for you, you cannot own your SIL's grief. It's deeper, older, and much bigger than you and your DH and your kids.

Lastly, I didn't read the 24 pages, but if anyone tried to make you feel bad about having the 4 kids you and your DH wanted, that is disgusting. Id love to watch the movie of the life of the person or people who said that - I'd love to see what they've done that was so self-sacrificing that they can even type that on an anonymous board with a straight face. I seriously doubt they've done anything even close to even your offer of surrogacy. Ignore them.

Good luck to your whole family OP. And most of all, I hope you heal and that SIL gets quality supports and heals her way out of this.

[Anonymous]

OP, you mentioned that BIL wants a divorce, and then you say "Please remember, he desperately wants children and wants to be young enough to enjoy them for a long time and he is trapped in the hell of infertility just as she is." That just breaks my heart. It sounds as though there's some unwritten understanding that if a man wants kids, but the wife is infertile, it's ok to leave her for a fertile woman. Obviously your SIL has issues, but I hope your family doesn't in any way make your SIL feel like she's unworthy of marriage because she can't provide a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you mentioned that BIL wants a divorce, and then you say "Please remember, he desperately wants children and wants to be young enough to enjoy them for a long time and he is trapped in the hell of infertility just as she is." That just breaks my heart. It sounds as though there's some unwritten understanding that if a man wants kids, but the wife is infertile, it's ok to leave her for a fertile woman. Obviously your SIL has issues, but I hope your family doesn't in any way make your SIL feel like she's unworthy of marriage because she can't provide a child.

There's also more to this. People sometimes forget that the man is experiencing the same sense of loss, grief, sadness, empty arms that the woman is. It sounds as though he would be on board with adoption, but SIL refused because she wants bio babies. I have no doubt that some of the drama that OP has just experienced, BIL has seen before. Infertility breaks many couples apart, but it isn't because of the lack of actual fertility - it's the pervasive, singular goal that becomes the driving factor behind having the relationship at all. Sex falls off, communication falls off, grief takes over.
I don't think BIL is leaving because she's unable to have a baby- she seems unwilling (or honestly unable) at this point to find a workable solution that is available (adoption, surrogate) or to accept that some things cannot be changed.

He also may need space to grieve and hurt. In general, the female is the only one to get societal support for feeling this so deeply. If he's been propping up unrealistic expectations for years, he may just be tired.

It's a very sad and heart wrenching dynamic.

[Anonymous]

I'm so sorry for how this turned out, OP. It sounds like there is terrible pain all around here, and I hope you all can find a way to peace. Assuming the surrogacy never does work out, I hope there is positive to come out of this, namely that both your SIL and BIL can get the help they need to deal with their terrible losses.