Letting the Ivy plan go

[Anonymous]

I view the "I want to play in the NBA/NFL" kid dreams differently from the "I want to go to the Ivy my parents went to"

My middle school son plays basketball and flag football. He wants to go play for the schools he sees in the national championships. None of which his father or I have any affiliation with. He likes those sports and who am I to crush his dreams? I am being a bit facetious here, but clearly that is being driven by the kid.

A kid wanting to go to an Ivy from the time their were young because their parent went there is vastly different. Consciously or subconsciously that is being driven by a parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. I hear you. I am by no means an Ivy or bust person - these schools are longshots for every student - but it would bother me if my child decided to take a less rigorous course schedule sophomore year even though they have shown they can handle it (academically, at least) in ninth grade. The fact of the matter is that it is difficult to get into even state flagships without taking a high-rigor schedule in the current environment. I want my children to keep as many doors open as possible for as long as possible. A 14 year old does not fully understand the implications of her choices, and as a parent, I think it is your responsibility to explain them. I am also from a culture where working hard in academics is just expected, and a little stress is not seen as a bad thing.

If they are absolutely miserable, they can't "handle it".

I was really struck by OP's first post that she says, "I’m torn between pushing with tough love because she is young and maybe she will thank me later vs considering that maybe it is just too much for her, to let her make her own choices, and to prioritize her wellbeing. " That NOT prioritizing her child's wellbeing is even an option on the table. Seriously??

[Anonymous]

OP, lots of kids get accelerated in the early grades and then face real pressure/inability to keep up. For the overwhelming majority of kids who are early leaners, they are "caught" by their peers. Both because the early learners slow down and because the "slow" learners catch up. OP, I have no idea whether this applies to your daughter, but my guess is that there is a whole lot more going on then just wanting to have a class with a friend/social stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I view the "I want to play in the NBA/NFL" kid dreams differently from the "I want to go to the Ivy my parents went to"

My middle school son plays basketball and flag football. He wants to go play for the schools he sees in the national championships. None of which his father or I have any affiliation with. He likes those sports and who am I to crush his dreams? I am being a bit facetious here, but clearly that is being driven by the kid.

A kid wanting to go to an Ivy from the time their were young because their parent went there is vastly different. Consciously or subconsciously that is being driven by a parent.

I found OP's posts kind of obnoxious, but I did think that people were being a bit harsh to her on that point. A kid who is consistently at the top of the class and has an identity based on being academically talented will want to further that identify - just as a middle school basketball player will want to further than identify and play at NCAA winning school. It is unsurprisingly to me that a kid who prides himself on academics and perhaps gets praised for it by teachers and parents, even in early grades, would target Ivies or other name brand schools.

[Anonymous]

Its beyond normal for kids to want to go wherever their parents went for college, no matter where it is. It is certainly not a slight to OP that her daughter wants to follow in her parents footsteps. My now 9th grader always wanted to go where DH and I went also. Now he has set his sights higher...although he is performing at the level where he will be a great fit for our very awesome, but not ivy, alma mater.

[Anonymous]

^ I will add that I'm bummed that he is not working as hard as he thought he would/wanted to. Very bummed actually, but at the end of the day when I push he gets very stressed so I am trying not to. His confidence is also tied up in being a good student so I definitely get the worry that your child might regret not pushing harder now. It sounds like your daughter will end up doing great regardless!

[Anonymous]

I haven’t read being the first page, but moving down from honors to regular will be eye opening for your daughter. She may want to go right on back to honors after a short stay. I hated the one regular class I was in freshman year and moved back up to honors after a few weeks. The lack of interest in learning, the stupid responses…. I strongly felt the loss of my peers.

[Anonymous]

As a professor, I try to counsel parents that it's not the undergraduate degree that matters--it's the graduate/professional degree! Having gone Ivy for both, the quality of people in my grad/professional degree was far higher, and they came from colleges all around the country. You can go to virtually any college and if you do well there, go to a top school for your next degree. It's the terminal degree that counts!

[Anonymous]

Does it have to be all honors or all on-level? Can't you take it class by class and make the decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Damn I woke the beasts. I was hoping for helpful sane DCUM.

First of all, we didn’t come from money so this isn’t Muffy buys a library to get little Princess in. We had to work so hard. And now we have a better life so maybe our kids aren’t feeling that push that we had.

And of course don’t take my school literally. Just representative of what our collective goals were for so long: very strong schools.

Secondly, I am SURE you all want your kids to to top schools. You all talk about it all the time here. So, so do we. But I am trying navigate that plan with my daughter in front of me right now and hear her while also acknowledging that we are dealing with an adolescent and all that comes with. And I want to do the right thing.

It’s a reasonable question. And only sane DCUM need respond.

Do you honestly think you are where you are only because you went to Ivys? Not because you were hard workers and smart? You really couldn’t haven’t gotten where you are by having gone to a state school or regional university?

I ask because my husband and I went to a school ranked lower than 100 and we are both doing really well. In fulfilling jobs, too (not big law or finance). My husband is honestly one of the smartest people I know, and incredibly hard working. He didn’t need and Ivy to succeed, and neither did I.

I hate anecdotes. They never support the points people are trying to make and anytime they are given in the context of elite schools, there is no winning.

Did Jeff Bezos need Princeton? I don't know...but he came from a modest background and is the richest person in the world.

The list of the richest people and elite schools can go on-and-on.

Could you define "modest background"? His parents invested $250,000 in Amazon early on. Most parents couldn't do that.

[Anonymous]

Applying to colleges today is a lot different than when we applied. My DH and I both went to highly selective colleges on scholarships and the truth is, we think our kids have taken more difficult classes, and done better, than we did in high school, and they face a tougher application path. Let the Ivy League dream go unless it's truly something your child is passionate about and even then you need to work with them to not define themselves by that because in this day and age getting in is not a given, no matter how smart you are and how many extracurriculars you have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does it have to be all honors or all on-level? Can't you take it class by class and make the decision?

This. Figure out the strengths they want to lean into and balance out rigor in those areas with easier classes in other areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a professor, I try to counsel parents that it's not the undergraduate degree that matters--it's the graduate/professional degree! Having gone Ivy for both, the quality of people in my grad/professional degree was far higher, and they came from colleges all around the country. You can go to virtually any college and if you do well there, go to a top school for your next degree. It's the terminal degree that counts!

You do appreciate, however, that as a professor you have a pre-conceived ID of how someone's life should progress.

I am not arguing for going to an elite undergrad, but as an example...most CEO's (60%) have nothing more than a bachelor's degree. For many people, graduate degrees are a horrible investment, especially if you are pursing an academic graduate degree that is not funded by the university/research stipends.

I did quite well without a graduate degree, and neither of my kids have any interest (as of now) in pursuing one.

[Anonymous]

There are two issues raised by the OP -- one is the desire for her kid to go to an Ivy and the other is for her kid to take rigorous classes. The first one is a lottery for most unless they have a significant hook. But the other is a real concern. Check the thread on the College Discussion here. UFL, which is a good but not great flagship needs an average of 4.5 weighted average and 1400+ SAT for an out of state kid. Without rigorous classes (multiple APs/DEs) even top 50 state schools can be hard to get in now and will likely be harder in a few years. OP knows this and should perhaps try and gently nudge her kid to continue in the rigorous classes.

[Anonymous]

My husband and I have a similar academic background as you, OP. Both DH and I attended top 10 schools for both undergrad and grad school. But we are quickly realizing that college admissions is different today than it was when we applied. Even if she did have a 4.0 unweighted in honors and AP classes and had 1550+, there is no guarantee she would get into a top 10 school. There are too many applicants and holistic admissions is unpredictable. Sometimes non-academic standouts get admitted over academic standouts for other, sometimes random reasons. Imagine how you would feel if you pushed her and she had a stressful high school grind, and she still didn't get into a top tier school, because this is what is happening to many kids. it's a risky game to play with your kid's mental health.

I have a freshman kid who loves academics and we don't even have to push. She has the profile of a kid who would have done really well in college admissions back in the day. Taking BC calc as a sophomore, doing well academically all around, all-state musician, competition wins, her teachers like her, and she tests really well, etc. We are basically telling her not to aim for the top schools that we attended, and really promoting other schools. I don't want her to feel the pressure of needing to start her own successful non-profit, publish a book, win the international math olympiad, and cure cancer in her spare time, etc. Kids shouldn't have to craft such developed personas at such a young age. They are just kids and should just be focused on discovering what they like, socializing, learning good study habits, getting enough sleep etc. It's better to send a mentally healthy kid to a non-prestigious school than an anxious kid to an Ivy, only to have them break down there and not do well.

Also, despite the hype, you do not need perfect stats to get into college. There are plenty of schools out there. Among my many friends and neighbors who have college age kids, I know of zero cases where kids couldn't get into a place. Everyone found a place they were satisfied with (although not first choice), and not all of these kids were the very academic types.