Letting the Ivy plan go

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Damn I woke the beasts. I was hoping for helpful sane DCUM.

First of all, we didn’t come from money so this isn’t Muffy buys a library to get little Princess in. We had to work so hard. And now we have a better life so maybe our kids aren’t feeling that push that we had.

And of course don’t take my school literally. Just representative of what our collective goals were for so long: very strong schools.

Secondly, I am SURE you all want your kids to to top schools. You all talk about it all the time here. So, so do we. But I am trying navigate that plan with my daughter in front of me right now and hear her while also acknowledging that we are dealing with an adolescent and all that comes with. And I want to do the right thing.

It’s a reasonable question. And only sane DCUM need respond.

Do you honestly think you are where you are only because you went to Ivys? Not because you were hard workers and smart? You really couldn’t haven’t gotten where you are by having gone to a state school or regional university?

I ask because my husband and I went to a school ranked lower than 100 and we are both doing really well. In fulfilling jobs, too (not big law or finance). My husband is honestly one of the smartest people I know, and incredibly hard working. He didn’t need and Ivy to succeed, and neither did I.

I hate anecdotes. They never support the points people are trying to make and anytime they are given in the context of elite schools, there is no winning.

Did Jeff Bezos need Princeton? I don't know...but he came from a modest background and is the richest person in the world.

The list of the richest people and elite schools can go on-and-on.

Jeff Bezos’ parents invested $300,000 in his business. I’d hardly call this coming from modest means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an article in today's WSJ that some of the most successful young males in Ohio are in the Amish Community in Holmes County. They only had 8th grade educations. They significantly out earn other males of the same age in the US with their startup businesses.

This is the only post on DCUM that's ever made me want to reply "Wut".

I'm going to track down the article...gift link would have been nice...

If the Amish are into crypto and social media now I'm going to die laughing.

I'm aware they run some serious businesses in Amish country but I want to know where the startup money is coming from. Intra-community lending would be less surprising than completely self-funded growth.

I'm from PA and there are a number of businesses established by Amish or former Amish that do very well. One is installing solar panels and business is booming. Others do construction. There is money there for people who know how to build things and can hustle.

Can they really “hustle” with a horse and buggy and without a cell phone?!

Np. They do hustle. They hire Mennonites to help with their businesses, and are online like any other business.

A bigger factor is that the Amish have a reputation for quality in woodworking, crafts and home construction. That’s why people (me included) hire/buy from them. It’s not just about hustling.

I do think people underestimate the money that can be made by a small business owner in the trades. But the Amish model isn’t relatable to young men in the DMV imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an article in today's WSJ that some of the most successful young males in Ohio are in the Amish Community in Holmes County. They only had 8th grade educations. They significantly out earn other males of the same age in the US with their startup businesses.

This is the only post on DCUM that's ever made me want to reply "Wut".

I'm going to track down the article...gift link would have been nice...

If the Amish are into crypto and social media now I'm going to die laughing.

I'm aware they run some serious businesses in Amish country but I want to know where the startup money is coming from. Intra-community lending would be less surprising than completely self-funded growth.

I'm from PA and there are a number of businesses established by Amish or former Amish that do very well. One is installing solar panels and business is booming. Others do construction. There is money there for people who know how to build things and can hustle.

Can they really “hustle” with a horse and buggy and without a cell phone?!

Np. They do hustle. They hire Mennonites to help with their businesses, and are online like any other business.

A bigger factor is that the Amish have a reputation for quality in woodworking, crafts and home construction. That’s why people (me included) hire/buy from them. It’s not just about hustling.

I do think people underestimate the money that can be made by a small business owner in the trades. But the Amish model isn’t relatable to young men in the DMV imo.

Agreed. Furniture is a known/traditional business in Amish country. I think they've actually benefitted from the Chinese imports taking over the market because their quality is high and they customize. And they have a local, community source of labor. Not just "not relatable". It's tied to community specific conditions and human capital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an article in today's WSJ that some of the most successful young males in Ohio are in the Amish Community in Holmes County. They only had 8th grade educations. They significantly out earn other males of the same age in the US with their startup businesses.

Why is income the measure of the value of an education, or of success?
There's more reason to go to college than for earning potential - to be an educated person, to develop one's personal interests and talents and knowledge. To be an educated member of the community and make well informed decisions (ie, in voting)

You sound poor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Damn I woke the beasts. I was hoping for helpful sane DCUM.

First of all, we didn’t come from money so this isn’t Muffy buys a library to get little Princess in. We had to work so hard. And now we have a better life so maybe our kids aren’t feeling that push that we had.

And of course don’t take my school literally. Just representative of what our collective goals were for so long: very strong schools.

Secondly, I am SURE you all want your kids to to top schools. You all talk about it all the time here. So, so do we. But I am trying navigate that plan with my daughter in front of me right now and hear her while also acknowledging that we are dealing with an adolescent and all that comes with. And I want to do the right thing.

It’s a reasonable question. And only sane DCUM need respond.

Do you honestly think you are where you are only because you went to Ivys? Not because you were hard workers and smart? You really couldn’t haven’t gotten where you are by having gone to a state school or regional university?

I ask because my husband and I went to a school ranked lower than 100 and we are both doing really well. In fulfilling jobs, too (not big law or finance). My husband is honestly one of the smartest people I know, and incredibly hard working. He didn’t need and Ivy to succeed, and neither did I.

The OP doesn’t care about all that. She just wants that prize of saying her daughter is attending that ivy.

Can always put a car bumper or cell phone cover say "Harvard Parents",etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good Lord, let it go. Your daughter has not wanted to go to your Alma mater since she was little; you’ve planted that in her head.

So, in fairness...certain Ivy schools throw pretty crazy 5-year reunions that are well attended by alums. It is like a Carnival for the kids, who as they get older (like 8-13), are able to run around to all the different 5-year reunion tents...where one tent has a moonbounce, one tent maybe has carnival games...free food and soda...tons of other kids playing pickup games, etc.

For many years of course, our kids would say, I want to go to alma mater...not because of anything academic or crazy, but because to them they associated it with non-stop fun and games (literally).

We never pushed anything on them and as they grew up, they of course matured. First decided it wasn't for them and second likely has no interest either.

You pushed your alma mater on them every time you took them to a reunion. Most alums skip theirs.

Geez...what's your problem? At a couple of these schools, over 70% of the class goes to a 5-year reunion.

The operative word is “these.” It’s not like that with most colleges. Most people put college behind them and move on with their lives once they graduate. They get together with their college friends outside of college without attending reunions. That’s not the case with Ivies and similar schools. You guys can’t let it go, can’t get over your “glory days,” bring your kids to reunions, talk about your college incessantly - then claim you’re not putting any pressure on your kids or that you don’t care what college they attend.

Such utter bullshit.

So well said. BS it is all it is. I went to a top university but I never attended a single reunion. So boring. I just go to road trip with whoever I get along with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy League school on full scholarship. My husband also went to a highly selective university on full scholarship. We have worked very hard over difficult odds in our lives. Since DD was little, she wanted to go to my alma mater. First year in HS, it’s looking like it’s not in the cards. She is absolutely miserable in her advanced classes & doesn’t want to take on the rigor she needs to take next year. She is doing well academically but at what cost? She is so stressed and unhappy and wants to take “regular” classes next year. It is a constant fight between us daily about her workload now and about her future. I’m torn between pushing with tough love because she is young and maybe she will thank me later vs considering that maybe it is just too much for her, to let her make her own choices, and to prioritize her wellbeing. Frustrating because I know the latter will close some doors for her and she is better than this. What do you think DCUM and has anyone btdt?

This is truly an American Exception. In Europe, no one cared which university you go to, not like if you say "TU Munich" they drop their jaw. All the university is free. A good university might help for some networking. But most faculty and resources are excellent in the top 200 schools. Yet, the most important thing in life is to find your groove (find out what you are passionate about), and pour effort into it. Be curious and hard working. You will get anywhere. And be kind, compassionate and curious.

[Anonymous]

I agree that it doesn’t matter but the responses here - on DCUM of all places! - are largely jealousy. Sprinkle in some hate about low income POC making it to where they “don’t belong” or where you didn’t. We have to work twice as hard: think Chris Rock’s accurate bit about being surrounded by dentists in his neighborhood. Ivy League is overhyped and perpetuating a disgusting system of inequity that needs to go. For these reasons I both detest it and understand Op’s concern about their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it doesn’t matter but the responses here - on DCUM of all places! - are largely jealousy. Sprinkle in some hate about low income POC making it to where they “don’t belong” or where you didn’t. We have to work twice as hard: think Chris Rock’s accurate bit about being surrounded by dentists in his neighborhood. Ivy League is overhyped and perpetuating a disgusting system of inequity that needs to go. For these reasons I both detest it and understand Op’s concern about their children.

And we still live in a world where are that really matters for her success is if she is hot or not. #prettyprivilege

[Anonymous]

We are in the same position as OP, but instead of Ivies it's just the dream of UVa that is gone. I'm sick of all the arguing. I'm just never sure whether to push harder or just let DS fail and suffer the consequences (community college, I guess, or GMU if he's lucky).