AITA for not wanting DH to give MIL 4K to clear a debt

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP-- I don't think you or your husband are wrong. You both have valid points and I think the issue is worthy of further discussion. However, I do think you are wrong to judge your MIL's choices so harshly--women simply didn't have the same opportunities in her generation that women have now. They just didn't. They were also paid less for the same work, and daycares/nannies weren't as readily available in times past. For many (most?) women, it would have cost more to put the kids in daycare than they earned, so they stayed home.

There was more discrimination in the workplace, and most women were still expected to do ALL of the home/kid stuff as well as their 9-5. Men simply didn't pitch in at all--which I realize is still a problem, but at least now they know they're expected do even if they don't actually do it.

You admit she is a kind person who sacrificed a lot to raise her kids. You're judging her pretty harshly and through a modern lens when you should be looking back over time and judging her by what was actually available to her in terms of choices and not by what choices are available to you right now. Those are two different things.

My two cents is to give/loan the money, but insist on the transparency in terms of her debts and income. Is there a way you can have her babysit your kids 1 or 2 days a week until they're in preschool or kindergarten to help defray your childcare costs? Or help with the daycare picks up or drop off? Could she pick them up at 3 and take them home and start dinner or do their baths or something to help your evening go smoother? Would a set up like that help you feel better about the money?


That's not gonna work because she's going to babysit SIL's baby. Basically, DH wants to give MIL money so that SIL can have low-cost childcare. Genius plan.
SIL's baby isn't here yet, and presumably won't be handed over to MIL the day it arrives. OP didn't say how old her kids are. There's probably close to a year before SIL will need a babysitter, and OP can be using her services until then as a contingency to getting the money. Her DH can talk to SIL about it before hand and make sure she's on the same page in terms of them getting help too if they're giving the same amount of money. Everyone, including the MIL needs to be on the same page before any money is given. Also, SIL should really think twice about having a nearly 70 yr old as a full time nanny. A couple of mornings is one thing but 50 hr is unrealistic.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP-- I don't think you or your husband are wrong. You both have valid points and I think the issue is worthy of further discussion. However, I do think you are wrong to judge your MIL's choices so harshly--women simply didn't have the same opportunities in her generation that women have now. They just didn't. They were also paid less for the same work, and daycares/nannies weren't as readily available in times past. For many (most?) women, it would have cost more to put the kids in daycare than they earned, so they stayed home.

There was more discrimination in the workplace, and most women were still expected to do ALL of the home/kid stuff as well as their 9-5. Men simply didn't pitch in at all--which I realize is still a problem, but at least now they know they're expected do even if they don't actually do it.

You admit she is a kind person who sacrificed a lot to raise her kids. You're judging her pretty harshly and through a modern lens when you should be looking back over time and judging her by what was actually available to her in terms of choices and not by what choices are available to you right now. Those are two different things.

My two cents is to give/loan the money, but insist on the transparency in terms of her debts and income. Is there a way you can have her babysit your kids 1 or 2 days a week until they're in preschool or kindergarten to help defray your childcare costs? Or help with the daycare picks up or drop off? Could she pick them up at 3 and take them home and start dinner or do their baths or something to help your evening go smoother? Would a set up like that help you feel better about the money?


That's not gonna work because she's going to babysit SIL's baby. Basically, DH wants to give MIL money so that SIL can have low-cost childcare. Genius plan.
SIL's baby isn't here yet, and presumably won't be handed over to MIL the day it arrives. OP didn't say how old her kids are. There's probably close to a year before SIL will need a babysitter, and OP can be using her services until then as a contingency to getting the money. Her DH can talk to SIL about it before hand and make sure she's on the same page in terms of them getting help too if they're giving the same amount of money. Everyone, including the MIL needs to be on the same page before any money is given. Also, SIL should really think twice about having a nearly 70 yr old as a full time nanny. A couple of mornings is one thing but 50 hr is unrealistic.


I still would not do this. An employer-employee relationship with a poor relative (and that's what MIL is at this point) is going to be really awkward and tense. What if they're not happy with MIL's care and reliability?

I suspect MIL is older than she seems, cognitively, and that's why she got fired, won't (or maybe actually can't) work, and is making bad decisions.
Anonymous
If it were me and I could afford it, yes I would help her.
Anonymous
+1 for everyone saying that this is the tip of the iceberg. You will have to decide with DH about what you can and are willing to do for her going forward, and expect both her and your DH to be reluctant to discuss these issues head on.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote: I’m on your side op mostly because you can insist all you want, but you have no way to prevent mom from saying “oops, I forgot” a bill. You also can’t make the money go where you want it to go either.

Think of insurance, you have it to cover a specific event. You can’t call your car insurance and say “I’ve been a real good driver, I know you have the money, hand me what you’d pay if I wrecked my car.. I haven’t wrecked my car, but I know I won’t, so hand it to me so I can put a new roof on my house”. And, even insurance needs proof that an event actually happened.

My problem with people who hit family and friends up for money is that they know exactly what they’re doing and how to pit people against each other and they don’t care. They also know that once the money is given, they can do whatever they want. Obviously, you can get in a car wreck, get insurance money and *not* replace your car, the point is that you have had to have been in a verifiable car wreck, beyond “Hey insurance, trust me on this okay”

All this being said, think about why you don’t like your mother-in-law, or your husband’s relationship or behavior regarding her. Are you upset that she got to stay home with kids and you don’t? That used to infuriate me when my husband spoke fondly of his stay-at-home while also telling me we couldn’t afford it. I’m home with my kids now.

Does your husband tell you we can’t afford something you want and then he’s happy to hand money over to his mom? That would annoy me too, if we can’t afford something I’d like, then we can’t afford it, but how come we can hand money over to someone else? These are all valid things to bring up.

As for the childcare for your sister, that won’t work out the way you may be thinking. It’s also strange your mother-in-law doesn’t want to work but does want to care for her grandchild. Grandma is very different then being a mom. My mom was shocked at how much things had changed from the time I was a baby to the time when I had kids. I can remember her very sincerely offering to take care of one of my kids when I might have to be away for a for a few weeks and things like the carseat really frustrating her. She said “at that age, I just told you to get your butt in the car” and the thing is, she did.. I remember it.
Stick to your guns, op. $4k is a lot of money but beyond that, it’s the principal and the way you’ll be asked again and again. And, for those of you who talk about tithing, op’s mother-in-law isn’t a church. We belong to a church and we tithe, and I have to say I wonder why every time I see the church tell me it’s my turn to clean the building for free. I pay to have someone clean my house once a month, why would I clean a building for free and not even on my own schedule at that?



You're babbling, dear.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think that loaning money to one's own mom is a bad idea. I'd have no problem giving 4 grand as a gift.


Op here. It’s the amount for me that I take issue with. That amount is about 10 percent of our savings account right now.


This info tells me it is wrong for you to give the money.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think that loaning money to one's own mom is a bad idea. I'd have no problem giving 4 grand as a gift.


Op here. It’s the amount for me that I take issue with. That amount is about 10 percent of our savings account right now.


This info tells me it is wrong for you to give the money.


This. You can't afford it. Maybe you can't even afford what you're spending on your own family right now, OP.

You need a financial counseling appointment with your DH and you need to look at your own big picture, figure out how to get on an appropriate savings track for yourselves, and also think about what you can provide to MIL. Because your DH will not allow his mother to be homeless and you shouldn't ask that of him. But you can, should, must insist, right now, that your DH open his eyes to the magnitude of this problem.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think that loaning money to one's own mom is a bad idea. I'd have no problem giving 4 grand as a gift.


Op here. It’s the amount for me that I take issue with. That amount is about 10 percent of our savings account right now.


This info tells me it is wrong for you to give the money.


This. You can't afford it. Maybe you can't even afford what you're spending on your own family right now, OP.

You need a financial counseling appointment with your DH and you need to look at your own big picture, figure out how to get on an appropriate savings track for yourselves, and also think about what you can provide to MIL. Because your DH will not allow his mother to be homeless and you shouldn't ask that of him. But you can, should, must insist, right now, that your DH open his eyes to the magnitude of this problem.


Come on. They have $40k saved - on top of college savings, a house, retirement savings, and who knows what else - and you think they can't spare $4k to get the husband's mother out of a jam?

Only on DCUM.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think that loaning money to one's own mom is a bad idea. I'd have no problem giving 4 grand as a gift.


Op here. It’s the amount for me that I take issue with. That amount is about 10 percent of our savings account right now.


This info tells me it is wrong for you to give the money.


This. You can't afford it. Maybe you can't even afford what you're spending on your own family right now, OP.

You need a financial counseling appointment with your DH and you need to look at your own big picture, figure out how to get on an appropriate savings track for yourselves, and also think about what you can provide to MIL. Because your DH will not allow his mother to be homeless and you shouldn't ask that of him. But you can, should, must insist, right now, that your DH open his eyes to the magnitude of this problem.


Come on. They have $40k saved - on top of college savings, a house, retirement savings, and who knows what else - and you think they can't spare $4k to get the husband's mother out of a jam?

Only on DCUM.


That is the kind of short-sighted thinking that leads to exactly this kind of problem. Sure, they could spare $4K if that were all they had to pay, ever. But that's not what's happening here. MIL's income is FAR below her expenses, and the gap is only going to grow. It's $4K now but it'll be more next year, and the year after that. I'm not saying don't give her anything-- I think the writing's on the wall that they are going to have to give her a lot of money over the remainder of her life. But to suggest that this is no big deal is really clueless. I'm all for kindness, I'm all for helping family, even when they've made bad choices. But the right way to help family is to see the big picture, and to get *all three households* involved here on a sustainable footing that can last. Not just hand over money as she trickle-truths her mistakes. Because $4K won't be the end of it.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think that loaning money to one's own mom is a bad idea. I'd have no problem giving 4 grand as a gift.


Op here. It’s the amount for me that I take issue with. That amount is about 10 percent of our savings account right now.


This info tells me it is wrong for you to give the money.


This. You can't afford it. Maybe you can't even afford what you're spending on your own family right now, OP.

You need a financial counseling appointment with your DH and you need to look at your own big picture, figure out how to get on an appropriate savings track for yourselves, and also think about what you can provide to MIL. Because your DH will not allow his mother to be homeless and you shouldn't ask that of him. But you can, should, must insist, right now, that your DH open his eyes to the magnitude of this problem.


Come on. They have $40k saved - on top of college savings, a house, retirement savings, and who knows what else - and you think they can't spare $4k to get the husband's mother out of a jam?

Only on DCUM.


That is the kind of short-sighted thinking that leads to exactly this kind of problem. Sure, they could spare $4K if that were all they had to pay, ever. But that's not what's happening here. MIL's income is FAR below her expenses, and the gap is only going to grow. It's $4K now but it'll be more next year, and the year after that. I'm not saying don't give her anything-- I think the writing's on the wall that they are going to have to give her a lot of money over the remainder of her life. But to suggest that this is no big deal is really clueless. I'm all for kindness, I'm all for helping family, even when they've made bad choices. But the right way to help family is to see the big picture, and to get *all three households* involved here on a sustainable footing that can last. Not just hand over money as she trickle-truths her mistakes. Because $4K won't be the end of it.


There are some very selfish people on DCUM
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think that loaning money to one's own mom is a bad idea. I'd have no problem giving 4 grand as a gift.


Op here. It’s the amount for me that I take issue with. That amount is about 10 percent of our savings account right now.


This info tells me it is wrong for you to give the money.


This. You can't afford it. Maybe you can't even afford what you're spending on your own family right now, OP.

You need a financial counseling appointment with your DH and you need to look at your own big picture, figure out how to get on an appropriate savings track for yourselves, and also think about what you can provide to MIL. Because your DH will not allow his mother to be homeless and you shouldn't ask that of him. But you can, should, must insist, right now, that your DH open his eyes to the magnitude of this problem.


Come on. They have $40k saved - on top of college savings, a house, retirement savings, and who knows what else - and you think they can't spare $4k to get the husband's mother out of a jam?

Only on DCUM.


That is the kind of short-sighted thinking that leads to exactly this kind of problem. Sure, they could spare $4K if that were all they had to pay, ever. But that's not what's happening here. MIL's income is FAR below her expenses, and the gap is only going to grow. It's $4K now but it'll be more next year, and the year after that. I'm not saying don't give her anything-- I think the writing's on the wall that they are going to have to give her a lot of money over the remainder of her life. But to suggest that this is no big deal is really clueless. I'm all for kindness, I'm all for helping family, even when they've made bad choices. But the right way to help family is to see the big picture, and to get *all three households* involved here on a sustainable footing that can last. Not just hand over money as she trickle-truths her mistakes. Because $4K won't be the end of it.


There are some very selfish people on DCUM


Au contraire, what I propose is a way for OP to help her MIL in the most sensible and prudent way possible.
Anonymous
Pay it now before the debt gets even bigger. And file a lien if possible (sounds like she may still have a mortgage on the house, so maybe you can't). Still, I would expect that you will not be repaid.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Every comment op makes worsens my perception of her.


2 pages back I was like wow op. Now, Good grief complaining about the high interest loans MIL co-signed to finance OP's husband. wtf. The YTA ditch is a mile wide
Anonymous
I would have a coronary if I had only 40k saved with kids I needed to see through college.
Anonymous
Yes help her! She's your DH's mom!

Also, FWIW, there are plenty on here questioning your financial choices OP. God forbid, you need money in the future and your child's spouse makes judgements and refuses to help you out.
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