Friends who cannot seem to get away - what gives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious OP do you have an infant/toddler at home?

I do! My DH takes charge if i go out to meet friends.

How many kids do you have and what age?

Currently have a K and 5th-grader, but this was always the case even when they were infants-toddlers.

NP. So…you *don’t* have an infant or toddler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may be an unpopular post. I am not trying to be incendiary. But this has been burning my curiosity for a while, so here we go -- I truly want to understand.

I have a couple of friends who cannot seem to go out at night. They want to get together and text often and try to make plans during the day if they're working at home and kids are at daycare. But they cannot get out at night because it means leaving their kids home with their husband during dinner and bath.

I am genuinely curious: Why can't you leave your kids at home? Can't your spouse feed them and bathe them? What happens between the hours of 6-10 that is sacred? Why won't you give yourself a break? It is straining a few friendships with women who seem tethered to a routine that stifles them. Why?

Maybe they don’t consider going out with you in the evening “a break”. Maybe they don’t consider their routines to be “stifling “. I’m genuinely curious: Why, if you have friends who can make plans during the day, you’re so insistent on having them make plans in the evening? 6-10 is often the only time that the entire family can spend time together awake. For some that is pretty precious— and a priority over spending time with friends who could be flexible but apparently choose not to.

Have you ever offered to do kid-friendly activities? If not, then maybe ask yourself why you’re comfortable straining friendships — insisting that your friends with family responsibilities conform to the demands and schedules of the friends who lack such responsibilities.

I had a very similar reaction to the tone of this, PP.

When did anybody say they won't do kid-friendly activities or that they were insisting that anyone conform to demands? Hyperbole! The fact is, many adults socialize in the evenings, after work. Many, in fact, choose to do it without their children. This isn't odd behavior.

Apparently it is odd behavior to the people on this thread. I have to remind myself that the DC area has a disproportionate number of boring people. They would be appalled at the things I see friends in other parts of the country doing. Tons of adults only trips, music festivals, day long winery trips… All… Gasp!… without their very young kids. As a parent you’re gonna be tired no matter what. Might as well have some fun in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was probably one of those women. You're right that it was hard for my DH to put them to bed without me. You can try and unpack why it was -- perhaps my DH could have been more helpful -- but like many things, there were many factors involved -- nursing to sleep (initially) led to a mommy preference. And kids like routines, they don't like changes in the routine. Could we have made an effort to get them to like Daddy putting to bed too? Sure, but we're both tired at the end of the day and changing up the routine (when one routine worked well) was just not the priority list, just so I could go out a couple times a month.

Also I was just spent at the end of the workday, so a weekday dinner or drinks date really wasn't that appealing.

My kids are much older now so I don't have a dog in this fight. Now I leave whenever I feel like it. You should realize that the time that this is a problem is short, and as long as your friends are willing to get together other times, it's really not worth making a big deal out of it. Otherwise, you're just being smug that you have an easy home routine.

We put so much pressure on women; you’ve got to have the impressive job, have the well behaved kids, have the amazing marriage and sex life, have the big group of girlfriends you go out with. If you can’t do it all we say you aren’t prioritizing your needs and are failing. Maybe we could give women some grace so we can admit we are tired. It was a long day at work, the kids aren’t sleeping well, marriage has been challenging lately, maybe we are too drained from the day to meet up for dinner. All of this pressure to do womanhood “right’ in the modern era is so unfair to women and I think it is a good idea to practice some empathy.

I can relate so much to this. “Make sure to breastfeed because it’s best for the baby but get a good pump so you can still go out with friends and not stay home like a martyr. But, no, don’t go out too much because then what kind of mother are you?! Probably an alcoholic. And shouldn’t you be spending more time with DH anyway, you know if you don’t have good sex he will probably cheat on you. Why did you marry him anyway, he’s not pulling his weight at home. But don’t get a divorce, you’re old and ugly now and no one would date someone with young kids. Why can’t you balance all of this, it’s easy for me’’ dcum is such a toxic place for women.

Definitely a whiff of smugness in OP -- like of course I have it together that I can get together with girlfriends on weeknights, DH can handle things perfectly, and when I get home everything is perfectly managed and the well-behaved children are sleeping. Whereas others are dealing with kids with bad sleep habits, messy houses, behind at work, and in frumpy clothes with spit-up on them -- not exactly in the mood or outfit for dinner and drinks with the girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP, you sound super condescending and a little selfish and immature calling your friends “tethered” to their routines and wanting to know what’s “sacred” about time with their kids. Maybe they don’t like you.

I think you were so miffed by the post that you missed the part where the OP stated that friends do want to meet up during the day, which is when most people work.
It's not a question of liking or not liking; it's a question of being able to exercise flexibility to meet people where they are.

Have you never heard of weekends? Weekends and brunch are…a thing.

See this is interesting to me because brunch is often several hours right in the middle of a weekend day. Much better chance for actual quality time with kids at that time than weeknight evenings when they’re cranky and going to bed anyway. My friends and I hardly ever do brunch because that’s when we are doing stuff with our families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know someone like that. Her H is a jerk, she likes being a martyr, and is all about being a mommy, and probably doesn’t really want to meet up. She then complains about how lonely she is. I gave up on her.

Sounds like you really liked her, considered her to be a friend, and respected her in the first place.

What a loss to you both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may be an unpopular post. I am not trying to be incendiary. But this has been burning my curiosity for a while, so here we go -- I truly want to understand.

I have a couple of friends who cannot seem to go out at night. They want to get together and text often and try to make plans during the day if they're working at home and kids are at daycare. But they cannot get out at night because it means leaving their kids home with their husband during dinner and bath.

I am genuinely curious: Why can't you leave your kids at home? Can't your spouse feed them and bathe them? What happens between the hours of 6-10 that is sacred? Why won't you give yourself a break? It is straining a few friendships with women who seem tethered to a routine that stifles them. Why?

Maybe they don’t consider going out with you in the evening “a break”. Maybe they don’t consider their routines to be “stifling “. I’m genuinely curious: Why, if you have friends who can make plans during the day, you’re so insistent on having them make plans in the evening? 6-10 is often the only time that the entire family can spend time together awake. For some that is pretty precious— and a priority over spending time with friends who could be flexible but apparently choose not to.

Have you ever offered to do kid-friendly activities? If not, then maybe ask yourself why you’re comfortable straining friendships — insisting that your friends with family responsibilities conform to the demands and schedules of the friends who lack such responsibilities.

I had a very similar reaction to the tone of this, PP.

When did anybody say they won't do kid-friendly activities or that they were insisting that anyone conform to demands? Hyperbole! The fact is, many adults socialize in the evenings, after work. Many, in fact, choose to do it without their children. This isn't odd behavior.

Apparently it is odd behavior to the people on this thread. I have to remind myself that the DC area has a disproportionate number of boring people. They would be appalled at the things I see friends in other parts of the country doing. Tons of adults only trips, music festivals, day long winery trips… All… Gasp!… without their very young kids. As a parent you’re gonna be tired no matter what. Might as well have some fun in the process.

NP. Yes, everything is black and white, and there’s absolutely no gray area. It’s definitely all winery trips and music festivals for some, and sitting home knitting and frantically checking the crib for others. There’s no in between. It’s all “odd.”

[Anonymous]

Your friends don’t want to of out with you, OP. Take the hint.

[Anonymous]

I have no time and am tired. I can’t be bothered to get dressed. I want to sleep. I have a ton of work to finish, and as my parents age I want to spend time with them. Plus, when kids get older the activities run late, tournaments run all weekend and you are in 3 different directions at once. We hang out with other parents who have same/similar schedules Bc they get it. As life changes so do we. Our priorities shift. Im not the same person that I was 20 years ago so some of those friendships have gone by the wayside, as they should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your friends don’t want to of out with you, OP. Take the hint.

Oh, my.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know someone like that. Her H is a jerk, she likes being a martyr, and is all about being a mommy, and probably doesn’t really want to meet up. She then complains about how lonely she is. I gave up on her.

Sounds like you really liked her, considered her to be a friend, and respected her in the first place.

What a loss to you both.

I liked her until I realized at least half of her situation was of her own making. Plus she was in deep denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was probably one of those women. You're right that it was hard for my DH to put them to bed without me. You can try and unpack why it was -- perhaps my DH could have been more helpful -- but like many things, there were many factors involved -- nursing to sleep (initially) led to a mommy preference. And kids like routines, they don't like changes in the routine. Could we have made an effort to get them to like Daddy putting to bed too? Sure, but we're both tired at the end of the day and changing up the routine (when one routine worked well) was just not the priority list, just so I could go out a couple times a month.

Also I was just spent at the end of the workday, so a weekday dinner or drinks date really wasn't that appealing.

My kids are much older now so I don't have a dog in this fight. Now I leave whenever I feel like it. You should realize that the time that this is a problem is short, and as long as your friends are willing to get together other times, it's really not worth making a big deal out of it. Otherwise, you're just being smug that you have an easy home routine.

We put so much pressure on women; you’ve got to have the impressive job, have the well behaved kids, have the amazing marriage and sex life, have the big group of girlfriends you go out with. If you can’t do it all we say you aren’t prioritizing your needs and are failing. Maybe we could give women some grace so we can admit we are tired. It was a long day at work, the kids aren’t sleeping well, marriage has been challenging lately, maybe we are too drained from the day to meet up for dinner. All of this pressure to do womanhood “right’ in the modern era is so unfair to women and I think it is a good idea to practice some empathy.

I can relate so much to this. “Make sure to breastfeed because it’s best for the baby but get a good pump so you can still go out with friends and not stay home like a martyr. But, no, don’t go out too much because then what kind of mother are you?! Probably an alcoholic. And shouldn’t you be spending more time with DH anyway, you know if you don’t have good sex he will probably cheat on you. Why did you marry him anyway, he’s not pulling his weight at home. But don’t get a divorce, you’re old and ugly now and no one would date someone with young kids. Why can’t you balance all of this, it’s easy for me’’ dcum is such a toxic place for women.

Definitely a whiff of smugness in OP -- like of course I have it together that I can get together with girlfriends on weeknights, DH can handle things perfectly, and when I get home everything is perfectly managed and the well-behaved children are sleeping. Whereas others are dealing with kids with bad sleep habits, messy houses, behind at work, and in frumpy clothes with spit-up on them -- not exactly in the mood or outfit for dinner and drinks with the girls.

Not smugness, but that is a reality for some people...their home routines are just easier for whatever reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you turning down invitations to go out at night, consider that if you keep saying no people will stop inviting you. Consider whether you want to maintain the friendship. If you do, try to say yes sometimes. Also keep in mind that as your kids enter elementary they will start having activities that make getting together on weekends very difficult. If you want to see certain friends a Thursday night dinner may be your only option.

I can’t relate at all to people who don’t ever want to go out. This board seems to skew toward homebody/introvert types. I am not out partying every night but a couple times per month is a great way to stay connected with friends. And I have to laugh at the posters saying it’s not fair to their husband to leave them alone with a couple kids. What do you think single parents or military spouses do? Some parents make bedtime out to be some crazy complicated process that requires two people. It really doesn’t when it comes down to it. You are making it that way.

NP. LOL, thanks for the advice.

Here’s something for you to consider: Just because I’m turning down invites *from you* doesn’t mean I’m turning down all the invites. It also doesn’t mean that I’m not inviting other friends to do things. Do you get it? You’re the one I’m willing to see every now and then for a coffee.

I’m not the one who organizes the dinners. I get invited to them and I try to say yes when I can so I can stay connected to those friends. No need to make it about me. I’m not the OP and I don’t have friends who tell me no because I am basically my other friends are more the organizing types. But I see that the moms who say no all the time stop getting included because after a while everyone just expects them to say no.

And no I don’t place my friends in a hierarchy like you describe. That is weird.

I mean...great for you. Why do you assume that the moms who stop getting invited give a flip?

There are tons of posts on DCUM about being lonely, having no friends, asking how to make friends as adults...seems a lot of people DO want friends and WOULD care about not being invited out anymore. But to have a friend you need to be a friend. You can't ignore someone for two (three, four) years, then turn around and be like, "now I'm ready to be friends again!"

…who said I would? I keep in touch and go out with high-priority friends. You are B Team. Take the hint.

Hon, your Music Together play dates with other spit-up soaked mommies don’t count as going out.

Haha, I work outside the home and routinely go on girls’ trips. Tomorrow night, I’m off to see Randy Rainbow at the Warner, dinner at Central beforehand, with my good friend and my brother and his boyfriend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you turning down invitations to go out at night, consider that if you keep saying no people will stop inviting you. Consider whether you want to maintain the friendship. If you do, try to say yes sometimes. Also keep in mind that as your kids enter elementary they will start having activities that make getting together on weekends very difficult. If you want to see certain friends a Thursday night dinner may be your only option.

I can’t relate at all to people who don’t ever want to go out. This board seems to skew toward homebody/introvert types. I am not out partying every night but a couple times per month is a great way to stay connected with friends. And I have to laugh at the posters saying it’s not fair to their husband to leave them alone with a couple kids. What do you think single parents or military spouses do? Some parents make bedtime out to be some crazy complicated process that requires two people. It really doesn’t when it comes down to it. You are making it that way.

NP. LOL, thanks for the advice.

Here’s something for you to consider: Just because I’m turning down invites *from you* doesn’t mean I’m turning down all the invites. It also doesn’t mean that I’m not inviting other friends to do things. Do you get it? You’re the one I’m willing to see every now and then for a coffee.

I’m not the one who organizes the dinners. I get invited to them and I try to say yes when I can so I can stay connected to those friends. No need to make it about me. I’m not the OP and I don’t have friends who tell me no because I am basically my other friends are more the organizing types. But I see that the moms who say no all the time stop getting included because after a while everyone just expects them to say no.

And no I don’t place my friends in a hierarchy like you describe. That is weird.

I mean...great for you. Why do you assume that the moms who stop getting invited give a flip?

There are tons of posts on DCUM about being lonely, having no friends, asking how to make friends as adults...seems a lot of people DO want friends and WOULD care about not being invited out anymore. But to have a friend you need to be a friend. You can't ignore someone for two (three, four) years, then turn around and be like, "now I'm ready to be friends again!"

…who said I would? I keep in touch and go out with high-priority friends. You are B Team. Take the hint.

Hon, your Music Together play dates with other spit-up soaked mommies don’t count as going out.

Haha, I work outside the home and routinely go on girls’ trips. Tomorrow night, I’m off to see Randy Rainbow at the Warner, dinner at Central beforehand, with my good friend and my brother and his boyfriend.

Randy Rainbow?!

[Anonymous]

I don't have any friends yet because I recently moved here, but I go to the movies every Thursday night. My condo building has a movie theater. It's lovely. I'm not sure why women don't go out more. It sucks! And they always have to bring the kids if we do meet up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was the first among my friends to have a kid. Two of my child-free girlfriends that I had known for years would come over on weekends and hang out with me at home.

Several times, these two angels came and asked DH and I to go and take a nap, while they played with my little one, fed him. changed him, did my laundry, did the dishes and cleaned up the house. Between the two of them, they would polish off couple bottles of wine and they did not judge our messy home or our unkempt clothes.

True Friends!