What about this as a breach of trust?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, is this you?

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/410077.page

If not, take a read. It's worth it.

And yes. Time to go.

Op here - that is not me...and yet it is. Got halfway through and am in tears. Thanks for pointing me to it.

[Anonymous]

Whoa, whoa, whoa - I'd back this train up a bit. You had a breakdown for which you admitted yourself and went on meds in the last 6 months, and you're worried about husband's pot smoking? I'm not saying it isn't an issue (I don't know) but all this talk of splitting up is premature, no? You're concerned about the kids, with him, but not really in a place of long-term stability to raise them alone yourself, in the event of a separation, either. As for husband's inappropriate response (and I agree, it was inappropriate) - think of where he is coming from. Therapist knows that they have one parent who has had a mental health crisis recently. And now you've told therapist that the other parent uses illegal drugs? Yeah, I can see where he'd freak out re: potential CPS issues and I'm not even a pot smoker. That said, if I was, I'd quit immediately, knowing what you had told the therapist in case there was potential for some sort of intervention by the authorities.

Unless you or your kids are at imminent risk of harm (which it doesn't sound like you are) I'd let everything cool way, way down, and bring this up again several months from now, when you're much farther out from your breakdown.

[Anonymous]

On a legal level, the therapist has no duty of care to report/expose his pot smoking. Therapist only has a duty of care to report/expose imminent danger to life as in a client threatens someone's life or his own life or child abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa - I'd back this train up a bit. You had a breakdown for which you admitted yourself and went on meds in the last 6 months, and you're worried about husband's pot smoking? I'm not saying it isn't an issue (I don't know) but all this talk of splitting up is premature, no? You're concerned about the kids, with him, but not really in a place of long-term stability to raise them alone yourself, in the event of a separation, either. As for husband's inappropriate response (and I agree, it was inappropriate) - think of where he is coming from. Therapist knows that they have one parent who has had a mental health crisis recently. And now you've told therapist that the other parent uses illegal drugs? Yeah, I can see where he'd freak out re: potential CPS issues and I'm not even a pot smoker. That said, if I was, I'd quit immediately, knowing what you had told the therapist in case there was potential for some sort of intervention by the authorities.

Unless you or your kids are at imminent risk of harm (which it doesn't sound like you are) I'd let everything cool way, way down, and bring this up again several months from now, when you're much farther out from your breakdown.

OP here - agree, any decision about separation or divorce would occur way down the line. I think I need to commit to at least another year of personal stability and recovery before divorce or separation would really be on the table. I'm not ready to do that yet. The challenge for me will be to live in the moment, and take each day as it comes. I'm not concerned at all about CPS - but given what I've shared on this Board I can see why you might say that. You don't have the full picture. My therapist does and I have total trust in her that if she had concerns that rose to the level of her deciding to get CPS getting involved, she would tell me that as part of my recovery program. She is damn good - probably one of the best in the area - and damn expensive. And worth every last penny. But I think your words are wise - the decision now probably isn't to separate, it's probably more about what decisions I'm ready to make versus which I am not. I'm just very concerned and sad that he took that issue off the table for discussion. Because this is absolutely an issue in our marriage, our family, and if I'm completely honest with myself was a factor that played into my nervous breakdown. Which probably isn't really the right word for it - diagnosis is just major depression and anxiety. I just let it get too far with some intense external pressures and was in a place where I didn't know what else do to. I was only in the hospital for 3 days - doctors realized quickly that it wasn't where I needed to be and got me to a more appropriate outpatient program and long-term therapy.

Maybe you are right that I shouldn't even raise the issue again for some months - though I'm not sure how I'm going to get comfortable with the level of use if it continues as-is during that timeframe. But then again, it has been this way for some years now, so what's another few months really in the long term. I have also considered raising the idea of speaking with him about it with our priest - though I think that will get a similar response.

[Anonymous]

OP please spend your time building a supportive community and look into Nar Anon meetings. Concentrate on YOU. Deal with your husband later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you think. Breach of trust? Or perhaps more importantly, is it time to go? I would like to give it one last shot in couples therapy, but my spouse said this issue is not open for discussion with the therapist. Period.

Sorry in advance for typos and length. I just feel numb by this exchange. Just happened tonight. Any and all thoughts welcomed.

Whoa, lady...where to start...

First, no, it's not a breach of trust, or rather: it is a violation but ordinarily wouldn't matter since therapy sessions are generally completely confidential (I don't believe marijuana use is a mandatory reporter situation), and ordinarily your individual therapist would not have a meeting with your husband "in preparation for couples therapy". Your therapist might meet with him, with your permission, to discuss your therapy and your condition. I think your therapist is way out on the ethical edge here - so if there's a breach, it's there. Yes, many many many people find a spouse, sibling, child, parent going to therapy deeply threatening because they know the client is "talking about them". The issue here is your therapist talking to him about it and inserting themselves into this. Really sketchy. Of course, some therapists take sides.

You sound like you have major issues; it's possible your husband is toking up like a fiend because he's self-medicating. Every hardcore pot smoker ("addict") I've ever seen is self-medicating (just like you taking lexapro) - it's entirely possible that trying to live with you is driving him to this - remove you from his life, maybe he comes back down. The inverse is also possible. Both things are possible (likely).

I'd say, regardless of the blame game, that the two of you are in an awful, toxic dance. I'd say it's time to split up. I also say Pot is way preferable to Lexapro.

[Anonymous]

No violation of trust. The whole point of going to therapy is to talk about everything. Especially after what you've been through, not only would it be harmful to you to withhold important things, but I would also say it's a violation of your marriage for your husband to ask you to withhold important information in therapy, thereby jeopardizing your mental health, in order to keep smoking pot.

It sounds like you have a difficult road ahead of you, no matter what you choose. I hope it all works out for the best, and you can find a place of peace.

[Anonymous]

Is it a breach of trust? Technically, no. But it's a dick move to have your therapist say the things you can't say for yourself (yet), and not even be present so that your spouse could discuss them.

Fire your therapist. S/he sounds like trouble. And the next time you want to bring up a big issue, at least be present.

[Anonymous]

I agree, the therapist meeting with him alone was counterproductive. How could she not see that would happen? Anything that they talked about, he could deflect and focus into his sense of betrayal that you had talked negatively about him to her. That's actually a normal reaction for the loved one of someone in therapy. So then it got dumped back on you, instead of actually working toward getting him to face and deal with the issue of self-medicating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
1. Your spouse is not the therapist's patient, and
2. You're not comfortable with the drug use, and how it affects your kids. And your therapist is probably mandated to report drug abuse around children. They are in my state.

What state are you in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The custody won't be complicated. You will get the kids.

yep "stay at home" dad who smokes pot all day? You can write your own terms. Although it would suck if you wound up paying that lazy ass spousal support

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think. Breach of trust? Or perhaps more importantly, is it time to go? I would like to give it one last shot in couples therapy, but my spouse said this issue is not open for discussion with the therapist. Period.

Sorry in advance for typos and length. I just feel numb by this exchange. Just happened tonight. Any and all thoughts welcomed.

Whoa, lady...where to start...

First, no, it's not a breach of trust, or rather: it is a violation but ordinarily wouldn't matter since therapy sessions are generally completely confidential (I don't believe marijuana use is a mandatory reporter situation), and ordinarily your individual therapist would not have a meeting with your husband "in preparation for couples therapy". Your therapist might meet with him, with your permission, to discuss your therapy and your condition. I think your therapist is way out on the ethical edge here - so if there's a breach, it's there. Yes, many many many people find a spouse, sibling, child, parent going to therapy deeply threatening because they know the client is "talking about them". The issue here is your therapist talking to him about it and inserting themselves into this. Really sketchy. Of course, some therapists take sides.

You sound like you have major issues; it's possible your husband is toking up like a fiend because he's self-medicating. Every hardcore pot smoker ("addict") I've ever seen is self-medicating (just like you taking lexapro) - it's entirely possible that trying to live with you is driving him to this - remove you from his life, maybe he comes back down. The inverse is also possible. Both things are possible (likely).

I'd say, regardless of the blame game, that the two of you are in an awful, toxic dance. I'd say it's time to split up. I also say Pot is way preferable to Lexapro.

Hmmm. Well, I trust my therapist. The session was not just to discuss my therapy and progress - we already did a session like that. I don't sense that she is taking sides per se. But I see how it could be viewed that way. It was a risky move to mention it without me there. And he isn't the patient - I am. That said, she and I asked if he would be willing to work in couples therapy -- he said yes. So I don't know once you say that you are good with doing couples work what the ethical edge is here that you are talking about. But yes, this approach had/has the potential to have backfired. That said, I've tried everything else so this is my last effort.

It's not that I'm not ready to talk to him about this issue - we have talked about this issue. At length. But my needs/concerns are dismissed as "paranoid", "Gestapo" and out of line because I knew he was a heavy smoker before we got married. And I've always caved because it has been presented as a non-starter -- he will not change.

BTW, he was smoking at these levels before we married (though the obsession around it has increased since then in that it is simply all he talks about these days - growing acceptance of pot as a recreational drug only adds fuel to that fire). So I don't think I'm the reason for the self-medication -- though, admittedly, I'm no angel and certainly have not always been easy to be married to.

Anyway, for me Lexapro is preferable to pot because I don't have any bad side effects, it is temporary, and it is legal.

But thanks for your point of view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think. Breach of trust? Or perhaps more importantly, is it time to go? I would like to give it one last shot in couples therapy, but my spouse said this issue is not open for discussion with the therapist. Period.

Sorry in advance for typos and length. I just feel numb by this exchange. Just happened tonight. Any and all thoughts welcomed.

Whoa, lady...where to start...

First, no, it's not a breach of trust, or rather: it is a violation but ordinarily wouldn't matter since therapy sessions are generally completely confidential (I don't believe marijuana use is a mandatory reporter situation), and ordinarily your individual therapist would not have a meeting with your husband "in preparation for couples therapy". Your therapist might meet with him, with your permission, to discuss your therapy and your condition. I think your therapist is way out on the ethical edge here - so if there's a breach, it's there. Yes, many many many people find a spouse, sibling, child, parent going to therapy deeply threatening because they know the client is "talking about them". The issue here is your therapist talking to him about it and inserting themselves into this. Really sketchy. Of course, some therapists take sides.

You sound like you have major issues; it's possible your husband is toking up like a fiend because he's self-medicating. Every hardcore pot smoker ("addict") I've ever seen is self-medicating (just like you taking lexapro) - it's entirely possible that trying to live with you is driving him to this - remove you from his life, maybe he comes back down. The inverse is also possible. Both things are possible (likely).

I'd say, regardless of the blame game, that the two of you are in an awful, toxic dance. I'd say it's time to split up. I also say Pot is way preferable to Lexapro.

Hmmm. Well, I trust my therapist. The session was not just to discuss my therapy and progress - we already did a session like that. I don't sense that she is taking sides per se. But I see how it could be viewed that way. It was a risky move to mention it without me there. And he isn't the patient - I am. That said, she and I asked if he would be willing to work in couples therapy -- he said yes. So I don't know once you say that you are good with doing couples work what the ethical edge is here that you are talking about.

No, I don't think so - it's pretty much unethical for her to have you as the patient and then start couples therapy with both of you. She should have referred you both to a different therapist for the couples therapy. That's pretty cut-and-dried. After however many sessions with you alone, she's got a highly biased view of him. There is nothing wrong with you all doing couples therapy with a different therapist and her continuing to see her as your patient. This is exactly what I'm talking about, to a T.

But yes, this approach had/has the potential to have backfired.[/quote}

Well, this isn't just a backfire, it's a flat out ambush. I'm not surprised he feels highly violated, whether or not it's a "breach" for you to discuss his substance use/abuse in your sessions with her. and she's taking on your role or becoming your advocate and delivering your ultimatums for you.

That said, I've tried everything else so this is my last effort.

Fine, just leave. Tell him yourself you're done, it's no longer tolerable and you're leaving. Separate. Perhaps that will deliver the wakeup call he needs to stop toking up constantly, and perhaps you all can reconcile.

It's not that I'm not ready to talk to him about this issue - we have talked about this issue. At length. But my needs/concerns are dismissed as "paranoid", "Gestapo" and out of line because I knew he was a heavy smoker before we got married. And I've always caved because it has been presented as a non-starter -- he will not change.

Yeah, well honestly, not a lot of sympathy here for your position: you admit you knew full well exactly who he is and what his substance use patterns were before you married him...and yet you did it anyway. Either you expected him to change from the beginning and didn't really accept him (in which case, nobody to blame but yourself) or you've decided that now that you can't change him, you're gonna call in the therapist to arm-twist him for you. Cowardly and manipulative, IMO. I'm reminded of the old saw "men marry expecting their wives to never change, and women marry expecting to change their husbands".

I'm not a toker (used to be 20 years ago), and I'm not saying you need to stay in a situation you've decided you can't tolerate. If being around him is bad for your well-being, then you have to leave. Good for you. Do it. Own it. Say your feelings about the smoking have changed. Don't make it his fault (which is what this is about). Believe me, it will feel better to own the decision yourself.

BTW, he was smoking at these levels before we married (though the obsession around it has increased since then in that it is simply all he talks about these days - growing acceptance of pot as a recreational drug only adds fuel to that fire). So I don't think I'm the reason for the self-medication -- though, admittedly, I'm no angel and certainly have not always been easy to be married to.

Look, I have had an up close and personal look at two people who had serious issues, which they attempted to solve by toking up incessantly. One was a friend/acquaintance (no longer because he really was falling apart and just not cool to be around - and I used to toke up with him), and the other is a cousin, who has real and significant mental health issues, which he attempts to address with weed. Both are in a downhill spiral (well, I have no idea what happened to the one I lost touch with in the mid-90s). I'm not defending becoming a stoner and I don't think you should have to put up with it if you don't want to.

My point wasn't so much to blame you except to get you jarred out of this blame/control mode. I have no doubt that between children and a spouse who had a breakdown, he's got a lot of external stress...and probably feels shitty about being unemployed(un-employable?). Those aren't excuses to spend all day stoned, but drop the stone-throwing blame game. Whether or not it's food, excercise, reading, movie watching (internet forum posting), people will engage in all sorts of escapist activities and will also engage in all sorts of rationalizations. It's hardly the fault of recreational legalization (does legal booze create alcoholics?)

Anyway, for me Lexapro is preferable to pot because I don't have any bad side effects, it is temporary, and it is legal.

I'm glad it works for you - it does have side effects and can be much more difficult to withdraw from than pot. However, it is legal.

What it looks to me like your therapist is doing is setting up a divorce where you get a slam dunk on custody, and nudging you in that direction. While what you told your therapist may not qualify as a mandatory reporter violation, it certainly paints him into the characteristics of being a neglectful parent.

[Anonymous]

Guy here. My biggest issue with this is he prefers the pot to you. I can't imagine my wife saying pick either x or me, and me choosing x. Well, if she said we had to stay celibate I would pick sex over her, but that is a basic human need. For him weed is a basic human need, and his weed use adversely affects your relationship. So you can contort your life around his behavior or you can move on.

The thing is right now he really doesn't have to pick. You move out, he may reassess. I agree with the Narc Anon suggestion, esp if you decide to stay.

Also, did you say he doesn't work? You definitely have the right to say you're not spending any of the money you earned to pay for his weed. Tell him to get a fucking job for that at least

[Anonymous]

Let me get this straight: he lights up more than moderately but YOU'RE on the bad guy for telling? That's messed up.

Your husband was relying on not having his bad behavior exposed and then turns it around that exposing his bad behavior is the problem?

If his behavior is so justifiable why does it need to be covered up? Smoking pot is generally ignored in most states, like having a beer.

This suggests to me it is a bigger problem. Additionally I am worried by the financial contribution imbalance in your household and your break down. Why is exposing his pot smoking more of a big deal than your hospitalization and now you're on medication?????

Let me summarize:

-you shouldn't be responsible for hiding his behavior and he doesn't get to call you out for failing to hide it. If it's not something he wants exposed, he shouldn't be doing it
-he should be contributing financially. It worries me that he can smoke pot all day but not hold a job. Are they related issues?
-your break down should be his priority, not his hurt feelings of being exposed. Why isn't he taking care of you? Why isn't it a priority to take care of you?
-I'm also worried that you are medicating because love makes us vulnerable to accept things we shouldn't. Is this you?

I'm very worried about these dynamics. It doesn't sound like a mutual healthy partnership. It doesn't sound like it's good for you. I'm not sure counseling could or would agree to fix you being happy in such an unbalanced situation. Really? Couples counseling to try to stay happy with this unsatisfactory state of affairs? B.S.