12 year old son has no motivation/isn't happy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had one like this - my middle son. The only time he was happy was when he was building things, reading about building things, taking things apart, designing stuff. He did okay in school, aced the tests, but didn't do the homework. Never enjoyed sports even though we did insist that he play them until the end of junior high.

We were very worried about him. His physics teacher his junior year in high school made it a requirement that all students in the class do a project for the science fair. Our son went to the finals of the ISEF and won first place in physics.

He is in a doctoral program now after having graduated with a double major in electrical engineering and physics. True, he did not go to a first tier school, but he is now in a doctoral program that is being paid for by his top tier graduate school.

We didn't understand him. That's all. We kept trying to fit him into a mold that he was not going to fit in. Once he started winning awards - the ISEF was only the first - we just let him pursue his passion.

I deeply regret that we tried to fit him into a standard role. I deeply regret forcing him into sports. I am not sorry that i did not medicate the way the elementary school counselors wanted us to.

This is my son, too, except he's still in undergrad -- at a big state school for aeronautical engineering. Never liked (or completed much) basic homework. Was downright BITTER about taking mandatory foreign language for 4 years. His room was always borderline disgusting.

However, he was and is happy happy happy. Really content. He reads as bored and morose though. Droll.

Re inattentive ADHD. -- so, so easy to get that diagnosis once you take the tween in to a doctor. It's true that such a condition "flies under the radar" among public school teachers. I think there's a good reason for that.

OP here. Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. I was so glad to those of you who chimed in about NOT medicating, since I just cannot stomach that at this point. I honestly think that since he spends a majority of his time at school what we need is a smaller classroom setting, in a school where people know him, and he can feel part of something. If he had a difficult time with the academic work, I would think testing for learning disabilities. But that doesn't seem to be his issue. I just want him to be happy, but since he seems SO different from my other kids and SO different from other kids his age we know, I think we just want to make sure we aren't missing something. We DON'T want him to be like everyone else. He does want to do some things, they just usually aren't academic or social in nature. Maybe we just need to help him feel comfortable in the life he's been given. Thank you to all of you for writing in. Each and every one of your posts was thoughtfully written and much appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's with all the quick jump to diagnose this behavior? He's unmotivated because he probably has a cushy life. If he were hungry and had no money or food, he'd be plenty motivated to find food.

Too many kids these days don't seem to want to do things that are "boring". My kids are the same way. Do you notice that these kids can focus on something for hours and hours that are interesting to them, but then can't seem to focus when they do things that are "boring", like school work?

He's also 12 - preteen, possibly going through some changes, and per OP's description of the kid, the personality traits probably don't help.

You should continue to hold him accountable. If his grades slip, he doesn't get xyz privilege.

Sure, send him to therapy to find out why he isn't happy if you want to go that route. But why be so quick to think he might have ADHD? How about the old fashioned "kid needs a kick in the pants" therapy?

I'm not saying that ADD or depression isn't real. But I think a lot of kids just need a kick in the pants, or as OP suggested, military school. Why are we so quick to diagnose everything, that every type of behavior needs a medical label? Seems like people just need an explanation as to why my DC does this or that. The explanation often times is just "they are kids that need to learn to deal with life."

So you wouldn't rule out an underlying medical, learning or mental health issue, PP? You'd just try a kick in the pants or military school?

I think Dr's are just as quick to diagnose kids because they make money off of them. As I said, have the kid talk to a therapist about what makes him so unhappy, but honestly, based on what OP stated, the kid just sounds like he's got that type of personality. Talk therapy might help. But it seems over the top to have a kid take drugs to change his personality. Wouldn't it be better for him in the long to learn to deal with his unhappiness rather than be on drugs for who knows how long?

And, it doesn't sound like the kid has any learning disability. As for ADHD, from what I understand, even if they are diagnosed with this, there are therapies you can use to address it rather than using drugs.

As parents, especially around DMV, we are so aware of environmental pollutants, eating organic, blah blah blah, yet so quick to drug up our kids. I don't get this at all.

You've never had a child who thought he was stupid who then received treatment for ADHD and could finally succeed. You've never had a child with such severe depression that someone had to be home at all times to make sure she didn't hurt herself, or worse. Thats why you can be so smug about those of us who have had to deal with such serious MEDICAL problems.

Depression and anxiety in kids comes out differently than in adults. It can be missed until it becomes severe. I don;t see any harm in getting an evaluation. Then at least you will know that your DC doesn't have these challenges. And if he does, you'll be thankful you found out.

As I said, depression and ADHD in kids are real. But, I think people are quick to jump on the diagnosis bandwagon to "explain" away a behavior they can't seem to deal with. Case in point, on this thread alone the first five posts (other than OP's and the first response) are about getting OP's kid diagnosed, and people claiming it was ADHD. This scenario is pretty commonplace on this forum.

Glad your DC found the help he needs, but doesn't sound like OP's kid is so depressed that he would hurt himself. Your case sounds completely different from OP's case, which is purely a lack of motivation and not caring about doing well in areas he doesn't care about, which btw, is most of us. Again, case in point, read the previous two posts from parents that had kids like OP's, and it just turned out, they were only interested in one thing and became successful at it, all without drugging their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had one like this - my middle son. The only time he was happy was when he was building things, reading about building things, taking things apart, designing stuff. He did okay in school, aced the tests, but didn't do the homework. Never enjoyed sports even though we did insist that he play them until the end of junior high.

We were very worried about him. His physics teacher his junior year in high school made it a requirement that all students in the class do a project for the science fair. Our son went to the finals of the ISEF and won first place in physics.

He is in a doctoral program now after having graduated with a double major in electrical engineering and physics. True, he did not go to a first tier school, but he is now in a doctoral program that is being paid for by his top tier graduate school.

We didn't understand him. That's all. We kept trying to fit him into a mold that he was not going to fit in. Once he started winning awards - the ISEF was only the first - we just let him pursue his passion.

I deeply regret that we tried to fit him into a standard role. I deeply regret forcing him into sports. I am not sorry that i did not medicate the way the elementary school counselors wanted us to.

This is my son, too, except he's still in undergrad -- at a big state school for aeronautical engineering. Never liked (or completed much) basic homework. Was downright BITTER about taking mandatory foreign language for 4 years. His room was always borderline disgusting.

However, he was and is happy happy happy. Really content. He reads as bored and morose though. Droll.

Re inattentive ADHD. -- so, so easy to get that diagnosis once you take the tween in to a doctor. It's true that such a condition "flies under the radar" among public school teachers. I think there's a good reason for that.

OP here. Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. I was so glad to those of you who chimed in about NOT medicating, since I just cannot stomach that at this point. I honestly think that since he spends a majority of his time at school what we need is a smaller classroom setting, in a school where people know him, and he can feel part of something. If he had a difficult time with the academic work, I would think testing for learning disabilities. But that doesn't seem to be his issue. I just want him to be happy, but since he seems SO different from my other kids and SO different from other kids his age we know, I think we just want to make sure we aren't missing something. We DON'T want him to be like everyone else. He does want to do some things, they just usually aren't academic or social in nature. Maybe we just need to help him feel comfortable in the life he's been given. Thank you to all of you for writing in. Each and every one of your posts was thoughtfully written and much appreciated.

Then nurture what makes him happy. Love for building things can lead to a great career. Find camps or after school activities around this interest. Yea, you will probably have to deal with mediocre grades, and he wont' make it to top tier. But, if he has passion for something like building, he will go somewhere.

I think he just needs to find his peeps, you know?

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. I was so glad to those of you who chimed in about NOT medicating, since I just cannot stomach that at this point. I honestly think that since he spends a majority of his time at school what we need is a smaller classroom setting, in a school where people know him, and he can feel part of something. If he had a difficult time with the academic work, I would think testing for learning disabilities. But that doesn't seem to be his issue. I just want him to be happy, but since he seems SO different from my other kids and SO different from other kids his age we know, I think we just want to make sure we aren't missing something. We DON'T want him to be like everyone else. He does want to do some things, they just usually aren't academic or social in nature. Maybe we just need to help him feel comfortable in the life he's been given. Thank you to all of you for writing in. Each and every one of your posts was thoughtfully written and much appreciated.

I'll start out by saying that this struck a nerve so I apologize for being bitchy. Who the fuck is talking about medicating your kid? The first time medication is even mentioned is in the 10th post by one thinks your DS has had a cushy life and just needs a kick in the pants. Those of us with ADHD kids are recommending an evaluation. You say you want to make sure you aren't missing something? The only way you know that is if you get him evaluated - and not by a generalist. They don't have the expertise to it which is why those of us with experience in this area are recommending specialists/neuro-psych.

I also take exception to your comment about being comfortable with the life your DS has been given. You sound so passive and pathetic. You can bet that I'm not willing to let my kid live the life he's been given. I'm helping him craft the life he wants and the life he deserves. He knows he's got challenges other kids don't and he can rise above them. He's been dealt a shitty hand but that doesn't mean he's stuck with it.

BTW - we don't medicate and have an IEP with organization goals so that the burden isn't on us alone to teach DS what comes naturally to his siblings. Because he's been evaluated, he knows a lot about why he is the way he is. He's got no excuses just explanations. Knowledge is power - at least that's what our family believes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's with all the quick jump to diagnose this behavior? He's unmotivated because he probably has a cushy life. If he were hungry and had no money or food, he'd be plenty motivated to find food.

Too many kids these days don't seem to want to do things that are "boring". My kids are the same way. Do you notice that these kids can focus on something for hours and hours that are interesting to them, but then can't seem to focus when they do things that are "boring", like school work?

He's also 12 - preteen, possibly going through some changes, and per OP's description of the kid, the personality traits probably don't help.

You should continue to hold him accountable. If his grades slip, he doesn't get xyz privilege.

Sure, send him to therapy to find out why he isn't happy if you want to go that route. But why be so quick to think he might have ADHD? How about the old fashioned "kid needs a kick in the pants" therapy?

I'm not saying that ADD or depression isn't real. But I think a lot of kids just need a kick in the pants, or as OP suggested, military school. Why are we so quick to diagnose everything, that every type of behavior needs a medical label? Seems like people just need an explanation as to why my DC does this or that. The explanation often times is just "they are kids that need to learn to deal with life."

So you wouldn't rule out an underlying medical, learning or mental health issue, PP? You'd just try a kick in the pants or military school?

I think Dr's are just as quick to diagnose kids because they make money off of them. As I said, have the kid talk to a therapist about what makes him so unhappy, but honestly, based on what OP stated, the kid just sounds like he's got that type of personality. Talk therapy might help. But it seems over the top to have a kid take drugs to change his personality. Wouldn't it be better for him in the long to learn to deal with his unhappiness rather than be on drugs for who knows how long?

And, it doesn't sound like the kid has any learning disability. As for ADHD, from what I understand, even if they are diagnosed with this, there are therapies you can use to address it rather than using drugs.

As parents, especially around DMV, we are so aware of environmental pollutants, eating organic, blah blah blah, yet so quick to drug up our kids. I don't get this at all.

This. +100. It really is interesting isn't it? Anything to try to help a child achieve success as it is defined in this area -- top grades, measureable, quantifiable achievement at all costs. It can be hard to fight -- I've stopped counting the number of times friends have suggested ADHD when I complain about one of my teens lack of motivation or growing pains. One wonders how many kids with something truly unique to offer society down the road are being drugged into compliance. Sad, really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. I was so glad to those of you who chimed in about NOT medicating, since I just cannot stomach that at this point. I honestly think that since he spends a majority of his time at school what we need is a smaller classroom setting, in a school where people know him, and he can feel part of something. If he had a difficult time with the academic work, I would think testing for learning disabilities. But that doesn't seem to be his issue. I just want him to be happy, but since he seems SO different from my other kids and SO different from other kids his age we know, I think we just want to make sure we aren't missing something. We DON'T want him to be like everyone else. He does want to do some things, they just usually aren't academic or social in nature. Maybe we just need to help him feel comfortable in the life he's been given. Thank you to all of you for writing in. Each and every one of your posts was thoughtfully written and much appreciated.

I'll start out by saying that this struck a nerve so I apologize for being bitchy. Who the fuck is talking about medicating your kid? The first time medication is even mentioned is in the 10th post by one thinks your DS has had a cushy life and just needs a kick in the pants. Those of us with ADHD kids are recommending an evaluation. You say you want to make sure you aren't missing something? The only way you know that is if you get him evaluated - and not by a generalist. They don't have the expertise to it which is why those of us with experience in this area are recommending specialists/neuro-psych.

I also take exception to your comment about being comfortable with the life your DS has been given. You sound so passive and pathetic. You can bet that I'm not willing to let my kid live the life he's been given. I'm helping him craft the life he wants and the life he deserves. He knows he's got challenges other kids don't and he can rise above them. He's been dealt a shitty hand but that doesn't mean he's stuck with it.

BTW - we don't medicate and have an IEP with organization goals so that the burden isn't on us alone to teach DS what comes naturally to his siblings. Because he's been evaluated, he knows a lot about why he is the way he is. He's got no excuses just explanations. Knowledge is power - at least that's what our family believes.

I was going to post something similar, though less snarky. I have no idea why everyone jumps from evaluation to medication. Basically they are saying they don't even want to know if there's a diagnosable issue in case someone recommends medication. This conflates two different things. And more importantly it leads parents to delay both understanding and addressing problems. There is this ridiculous myth that there is a legion of doctors out there who have nothing better to do than entrap children into their medical lair. The truth is that there is usually a wait to get in to see the good clinicians, they have more work than they can handle. And they love to tell parents a diagnosis doesn't fit if it doesn't fit. Also, even if there isn't a diagnosis, they can give good advice for behavioral interventions.

Major depression starts as minor depression. Some kids are just wired that way. And you sure as hell want to intervene when its minor. Whats the downside of OP getting her DS evaluated? She's told he doesn't have ADHD or depression? That would be great. And probably in the process she would learn better techniques for dealing with him. Or she can stick her fingers in her ears and say "lalalalala I can't hear you . . ."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's with all the quick jump to diagnose this behavior? He's unmotivated because he probably has a cushy life. If he were hungry and had no money or food, he'd be plenty motivated to find food.

Too many kids these days don't seem to want to do things that are "boring". My kids are the same way. Do you notice that these kids can focus on something for hours and hours that are interesting to them, but then can't seem to focus when they do things that are "boring", like school work?

He's also 12 - preteen, possibly going through some changes, and per OP's description of the kid, the personality traits probably don't help.

You should continue to hold him accountable. If his grades slip, he doesn't get xyz privilege.

Sure, send him to therapy to find out why he isn't happy if you want to go that route. But why be so quick to think he might have ADHD? How about the old fashioned "kid needs a kick in the pants" therapy?

I'm not saying that ADD or depression isn't real. But I think a lot of kids just need a kick in the pants, or as OP suggested, military school. Why are we so quick to diagnose everything, that every type of behavior needs a medical label? Seems like people just need an explanation as to why my DC does this or that. The explanation often times is just "they are kids that need to learn to deal with life."

So you wouldn't rule out an underlying medical, learning or mental health issue, PP? You'd just try a kick in the pants or military school?

I think Dr's are just as quick to diagnose kids because they make money off of them. As I said, have the kid talk to a therapist about what makes him so unhappy, but honestly, based on what OP stated, the kid just sounds like he's got that type of personality. Talk therapy might help. But it seems over the top to have a kid take drugs to change his personality. Wouldn't it be better for him in the long to learn to deal with his unhappiness rather than be on drugs for who knows how long?

And, it doesn't sound like the kid has any learning disability. As for ADHD, from what I understand, even if they are diagnosed with this, there are therapies you can use to address it rather than using drugs.

As parents, especially around DMV, we are so aware of environmental pollutants, eating organic, blah blah blah, yet so quick to drug up our kids. I don't get this at all.

This. +100. It really is interesting isn't it? Anything to try to help a child achieve success as it is defined in this area -- top grades, measureable, quantifiable achievement at all costs. It can be hard to fight -- I've stopped counting the number of times friends have suggested ADHD when I complain about one of my teens lack of motivation or growing pains. One wonders how many kids with something truly unique to offer society down the road are being drugged into compliance. Sad, really.

Love the unscientific paranoia here. In the old days we just said kids with ADHD were bad. They dropped out of school at higher rates, they developed substance abuse problems at higher rights, they ended up in trouble with the law at higher rates. If you want to label the ability to focus at school and reach your highest potential, and to be happier, as "compliance," I'll take compliance. We resisted medication or my DD for years, so that when we finally put her on meds (not a stimulant, I should add), she was angry that we had kept it from her for so long. This is not a thread about medication, this is a thread about identifying why OP is struggling with her DS. But lets not throw these ridiculous tropes around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's with all the quick jump to diagnose this behavior? He's unmotivated because he probably has a cushy life. If he were hungry and had no money or food, he'd be plenty motivated to find food.

Too many kids these days don't seem to want to do things that are "boring". My kids are the same way. Do you notice that these kids can focus on something for hours and hours that are interesting to them, but then can't seem to focus when they do things that are "boring", like school work?

He's also 12 - preteen, possibly going through some changes, and per OP's description of the kid, the personality traits probably don't help.

You should continue to hold him accountable. If his grades slip, he doesn't get xyz privilege.

Sure, send him to therapy to find out why he isn't happy if you want to go that route. But why be so quick to think he might have ADHD? How about the old fashioned "kid needs a kick in the pants" therapy?

I'm not saying that ADD or depression isn't real. But I think a lot of kids just need a kick in the pants, or as OP suggested, military school. Why are we so quick to diagnose everything, that every type of behavior needs a medical label? Seems like people just need an explanation as to why my DC does this or that. The explanation often times is just "they are kids that need to learn to deal with life."

So you wouldn't rule out an underlying medical, learning or mental health issue, PP? You'd just try a kick in the pants or military school?

I think Dr's are just as quick to diagnose kids because they make money off of them. As I said, have the kid talk to a therapist about what makes him so unhappy, but honestly, based on what OP stated, the kid just sounds like he's got that type of personality. Talk therapy might help. But it seems over the top to have a kid take drugs to change his personality. Wouldn't it be better for him in the long to learn to deal with his unhappiness rather than be on drugs for who knows how long?

And, it doesn't sound like the kid has any learning disability. As for ADHD, from what I understand, even if they are diagnosed with this, there are therapies you can use to address it rather than using drugs.

As parents, especially around DMV, we are so aware of environmental pollutants, eating organic, blah blah blah, yet so quick to drug up our kids. I don't get this at all.

This. +100. It really is interesting isn't it? Anything to try to help a child achieve success as it is defined in this area -- top grades, measureable, quantifiable achievement at all costs. It can be hard to fight -- I've stopped counting the number of times friends have suggested ADHD when I complain about one of my teens lack of motivation or growing pains. One wonders how many kids with something truly unique to offer society down the road are being drugged into compliance. Sad, really.

Love the unscientific paranoia here. In the old days we just said kids with ADHD were bad. They dropped out of school at higher rates, they developed substance abuse problems at higher rights, they ended up in trouble with the law at higher rates. If you want to label the ability to focus at school and reach your highest potential, and to be happier, as "compliance," I'll take compliance. We resisted medication or my DD for years, so that when we finally put her on meds (not a stimulant, I should add), she was angry that we had kept it from her for so long. This is not a thread about medication, this is a thread about identifying why OP is struggling with her DS. But lets not throw these ridiculous tropes around.

How does this relate to an unmotivated kid who seems to lack motivation, or simply isn't performing well in school. We're not talking about out-of-control troublemakers of yore who would have benefitted from an ADHD diagnosis, sadly. Too often, the kids I know on ADHD meds are perfectly nice kids who weren't getting what their parents deemed good enough grades. So who's throwing the tropes around?

[Anonymous]

PP, you don't know what you're talking about. ADHD is not just a diagnosis for 'hyper' kids. There are kids who are "perfectly nice," and who spend their days at school distracted, unable to concentrate, etc. who are underachieving because they are unable to attend in a classroom. I don't know too many parents who would put their kids on medication to get better grades. It simply doesn't work like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, you don't know what you're talking about. ADHD is not just a diagnosis for 'hyper' kids. There are kids who are "perfectly nice," and who spend their days at school distracted, unable to concentrate, etc. who are underachieving because they are unable to attend in a classroom. I don't know too many parents who would put their kids on medication to get better grades. It simply doesn't work like that.

Obviously, I know that. But I think drugs as a crutch for lack of motivation is heading down a dangerous road. Too many parents want to hear that there is a fix, which makes them more willing to accept an ADHD diagnosis.

I have no doubt that someday we will all look back horrified on this era of over-medication of children. You might disagree with me based upon your experience, but I base mine on years of researching this topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, you don't know what you're talking about. ADHD is not just a diagnosis for 'hyper' kids. There are kids who are "perfectly nice," and who spend their days at school distracted, unable to concentrate, etc. who are underachieving because they are unable to attend in a classroom. I don't know too many parents who would put their kids on medication to get better grades. It simply doesn't work like that.

Obviously, I know that. But I think drugs as a crutch for lack of motivation is heading down a dangerous road. Too many parents want to hear that there is a fix, which makes them more willing to accept an ADHD diagnosis.

I have no doubt that someday we will all look back horrified on this era of over-medication of children. You might disagree with me based upon your experience, but I base mine on years of researching this topic.

+1 There are HS/college kids that don't have ADHD but take Adderal to increase their concentration and be able to perform better. It is a thing.

[Anonymous]

Who does these evaluations? A therapist? If you have one you'd recommend, please do so. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

A kid may lack motivation and not be performing well in school simply because he lacks motivation. But it could also be a red flag for an underlying issue. No one is saying OP's DC has ADHD or a mood disorder, only that the responsible thing would be to rule those issues out before concluding this is some kind of discipline problem. When you treat kids who have an underlying medical problem as if its their fault and they need to be whipped into shape, it only makes the problem worse. For the life of me I don't see any downside to doing due diligence to make sure there isn't something going on here that needs specialized attention. This whole discussion of meds and overdiagnosis is a distraction. There is a child who doesn't care and doesn't try. Why? You can't solve the problem unless you can answer that question. Clamping down and making it a battle will not be productive.

[Anonymous]

Love the unscientific paranoia here. In the old days we just said kids with ADHD were bad. They dropped out of school at higher rates, they developed substance abuse problems at higher rights, they ended up in trouble with the law at higher rates. If you want to label the ability to focus at school and reach your highest potential, and to be happier, as "compliance," I'll take compliance. We resisted medication or my DD for years, so that when we finally put her on meds (not a stimulant, I should add), she was angry that we had kept it from her for so long. This is not a thread about medication, this is a thread about identifying why OP is struggling with her DS. But lets not throw these ridiculous tropes around.



How does this relate to an unmotivated kid who seems to lack motivation, or simply isn't performing well in school. We're not talking about out-of-control troublemakers of yore who would have benefitted from an ADHD diagnosis, sadly. Too often, the kids I know on ADHD meds are perfectly nice kids who weren't getting what their parents deemed good enough grades. So who's throwing the tropes around?

I'm 17:53 from the first page. Your understanding of ADHD is about the same level mine was when my DS was first diagnosed. My DS isn't hyperactive, isn't out of control, hasn't ever had behavioral challenges. He's nice, kind, well liked by peers/teachers and is a pleasure to be around. But, we saw things that troubled us and we sought more information about it. We were shocked by the ADHD/inattentive diagnosis because it didn't fit what we thought ADHD was - what you obviously think it is. But after we learned more about it, he clearly does have it and so does my DH.

Perhaps it's an affluence issue (my kids go to a Title 1 school) but I don't know anyone who medicated their kids because their grades weren't good enough. Or, maybe that's just what you're told because people recognize you just don't see their kid's struggle and it's just easier to say that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who does these evaluations? A therapist? If you have one you'd recommend, please do so. Thank you.

I suggest you post your request along with your locale on the SN Forum. You'll get a better and wider response.